Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy

[cardigankid]

I am sure people go in thinking this is going to be very complicated and so I have to concentrate every instant to follow what is happening. Wrong approach. Just go and enjoy it. It isn't a film you can follow, it is a succession of beautifully constructed jigsaw pieces which gradually start to make sense as a whole.

[Use Psychology]

I completely disagree with that ^ post up there. The film takes on a great story and completely fails to tell it in an interesting or meaningful way. There so little about motivation, and most of the characters are stripped of all of their depth.

shirt said:

i read the character profiles on wiki after watching the last episode, much of which weren't strongly expressed on film. i think knowing esterhase and bland's histories would have made in much more of a whodunnit.

#

exactly. There is no-one to like, no-one to hate, nobody to admire.

[Goa'uld]

Use Psychology said:

I completely disagree with that ^ post up there. The film takes on a great story and completely fails to tell it in an interesting or meaningful way. There so little about motivation, and most of the characters are stripped of all of their depth.

shirt said:

i read the character profiles on wiki after watching the last episode, much of which weren't strongly expressed on film. i think knowing esterhase and bland's histories would have made in much more of a whodunnit.

#

exactly. There is no-one to like, no-one to hate, nobody to admire.

It was an impressive film in the way that it was filmed, with performances that were as great as the script would allow.

They really didn't concentrate enough on the characters though - so much of the film was spent creating atmosphere with the sets/music however we could have done with more back story on the other ‘possible’ characters – even some Tarantino style banter between some of them not connected to the story but showing their personality/angle.


Bland in particular (or as the girl behind us put it – “Snape has really put on weight”) had barely any time spent on him, I actually forgot about him until we were discussing it afterwards.

The only person that we got proper development with was Ricki Tarr, Tom Hardy with Oldman was just unreal.

Still enjoyed it.

[ExChrispy Porker]

Use Psychology said:

exactly. There is no-one to like, no-one to hate, nobody to admire.

Bit like real life then?

[Use Psychology]

1. sounds like a sad real life.
2. its fiction anyway.

[cardigankid]

Use Psychology said:

I completely disagree with that ^ post up there. The film takes on a great story and completely fails to tell it in an interesting or meaningful way. There so little about motivation, and most of the characters are stripped of all of their depth.

All films tend to precis good stories.

[ExChrispy Porker]

Use Psychology said:

1. sounds like a sad real life.
2. its fiction anyway.

Absolutely. Fictitious sad lives. The film conveys that well in my opinion.

[cardigankid]

cardigankid said:

Mr Dave said:

The move from Czechoslovakia to Hungary didn't damage the story nor the move to Turkey from Hong Kong.

Eh? I missed that. I thought it was moved from Portugal to Istanbul.

And from that you will have gathered that I hadn't read the book.

[cardigankid]

ExChrispy Porker said:

Use Psychology said:

1. sounds like a sad real life.
2. its fiction anyway.

Absolutely. Fictitious sad lives. The film conveys that well in my opinion.

It's not half as sad and depressing as The Spy who came in from the Cold. I read that at school, and to be honest it put me off reading Le Carre completely. I was really hooked by the original TV dramatisation of TTSS though, during which I really did not know what was going to happen next, but still enjoyed it. That must have an effect on your subsequent approach to the film, but no more so than having read the book. I intend to read TTSS, The Honourable Schoolboy and Smiley's People before they get the films out.

Still think that the film is an outstanding piece of work and extremely well acted, though Mark Strong was not as convincing as Ian Bannen.

[jmorgan]

ExChrispy Porker said:

Use Psychology said:

1. sounds like a sad real life.
2. its fiction anyway.

Absolutely. Fictitious sad lives. The film conveys that well in my opinion.

That is what I got from the books. No bond malarkey, civil servant with an odd job, goes home at night to the telly and a book sort of drudgery. A previous book can show that he does have the balls so to speak to make hard decisions.

[bob1179]

I haven't seen the film yet, but the original BBC versions of the 'Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy' and 'Smiley's People' were just brilliant. Alec Guinness was the perfect George Smiley and the the pace and atmosphere of both series were excellent.

I want to see the film and will go in seeing it with an open mind, after you can't develop characters and the plot in the same way in a shorter time frame that the film limits you too.

[cardigankid]

One question is, is it better than the TV adaptation?

If I was forced to pick, I would say no, because the TV adaptation had more time, and had Alec Guinness, Ian Richardson, Ian Bannen and Bernard Hepton, and whoever you use, you really can't top their performances.

It isn't however a totally fair question. The TV series was filmed in the time it was set. The film had to recreate the 70's, did so brilliantly and in doing so forced themselves and you to think about the era. It had a bigger budget, and therefore more money went into every scene. It was more visually impressive. It explored character issues the TV series didn't, and vice versa. It did, imho, get the plot over well despite the restricted time.

So I would say one was a great TV series and the other is a great film. My only worry is that it won't be a sufficient public hit to justify making the other two, which is tragic in an era where you can get Fast & Furious 5.

[cardigankid]

Use Psychology said:

exactly. There is no-one to like, no-one to hate, nobody to admire.

You don't admire Smiley then?

[Andy XJ]

To my mind, the BBC adaptation was nothing short of seminal.

The acting by Ian Richardson, Michael Aldridge, and of course Sir Alec Guinness, was as close to perfection as I've ever seen. Watch the very first scene on the attached link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BJ3rWva4_g

I just think its perfectly studied, setting out the differing characters of Esterhase, Haydon, Alleline and Bland right from the start, and with just 4 words.

The film had no chance. On its own, it was ok, but against the original? No.

[shirt]

watch this bit all the way through. fantastic actress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlPXX79tiuQ&fea...

[bob1179]

shirt said:

watch this bit all the way through. fantastic actress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlPXX79tiuQ&fea...

Did you know Alec Guinness wasn't keen on having Beryl Reid taking on the role of Connie Sachs? He was worried because she was a comic actress and feared she didn't have the 'depth'. It turns out that because of these worries and that Beryl was acutely aware of his feelings they managed to play off a little against each other and that made the scenes they were in together all the more tense and atmospheric.

I watched the DVD documentary on Alec Guinness as George Smiley at the end of Smileys People...

[cardigankid]

Having just read The Honourable Schoolboy, they are going to need a crack scriptwriter to get something they can film. Good story, but compared with TTSS (the book) which was very tight, THS reads like a draft which has not been edited, and the narrative is interrupted by various non-sequiturs. John Le carre also seems to love the downbeat ending. It was fashionable at school in the seventies always to invert the 'happy ending'. Therefore everything ends badly for everyone. I think this is in that genre and will need tweaking before being filmed.

Interesting about Beryl Reid. Actually I am with Sir Alec on that one. I think that she comes across as an eccentric secretary, rather than a researcher and manque don . In that respect, the film was maybe better.

Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 12th October 13:08

[jmorgan]

Yeah but its part of a trilogy, the bigger picture was really two people. Did seem a bit of an off shoot though. Still, nice to see if they can get the last two on the go.

[Halb]

Finally watched it, not as good as the series, but a worthy attempt nonetheless.

[V8mate]

Finally watched it over the weekend; had delayed viewing because I had received a DVD copy of the orginal TV series for Christmas which I was keen to watch through.

I thought that the film was very poor. They changed a number of elements of the story without any apparent need and I felt that had I not been so well acquainted with the book and original televisation, that the story would have made very little sense as delivered in the new movie.

Gary Oldman's performance? They may as well have got John Culshaw, for all he delivered was Gary Oldman doing an impression of Alec Guinness.

If the film-makers felt that they didn't want to stick religiously to the original story, I think that modern cinematography could have delivered a much more gritty thriller.