Bond 23 - Skyfall
Discussion
RichB said:
Either way this was his company car which he chose from Q's pool in preference to a Mk2 Jaguar because it had space to conceal a few discrete items like a gun tray under the seat.
If Fleming had him choose the Jaguar instead presumably the film would have had the Jag as well. Would Aston Martin still have the same brand strength now? Would they even be in business? Dr Jekyll said:
RichB said:
Either way this was his company car which he chose from Q's pool in preference to a Mk2 Jaguar because it had space to conceal a few discrete items like a gun tray under the seat.
If Fleming had him choose the Jaguar instead presumably the film would have had the Jag as well. Would Aston Martin still have the same brand strength now? Would they even be in business? marcosgt said:
cardigankid said:
CR's take on Bond sketches the rough ex-SAS type with aspirations above his station. It was an really enjoyable attempt to develop the Bond character in line with Fleming's books, and give him depth, which I applaud and want to see more of, though we should remember that is something that Fleming himself never attempted to do. Any one writing or filming Bond has to recognise this issue, and decide how they are going to deal with it.
I agree, but also (and I'm sure you had this in mind) to project Bond's character into the 21st century.An element of this is the post Bourne spy film (interesting that Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy has been such a success, a less Bourne inspired story is hard to imagine, although I've not seen the film yet, so maybe Smiley attacks someone with a biro at some point
), but also the case that anyone in the SBS (or similar) these days would hardly be likely to be a high-living toff with a Bentley. They'd have been in action in Iraq, Afghanistan or somewhere and, whilst expected to display intelligence and self-reliance would also be a tough, cold blooded type who would kill without pause if the situation demanded it.The Bond of WW2 was a very different man to that of today and that's what the CR film was trying to represent. Unfortunately, the scenario of CR required a man of sophistication, who really didn't fit the mould of the former SBS/SAS man. It seems highly unlikely that the Bond of CR would have been selected for this mission - They'd probably have used a diplomat (and sent Bond as a minder for him).
M
The original character of Bond wasn't exactly a high-rolling sophisticate either. OK, so he was relatively wealthy, but his past wasn't that rosy - he lost his parents in a climbing accident, was sent down from Eton over some indiscretion with a maid, and had been bailed out at some point by a wealthy benefactor who it's never made quite clear whether he's related to or not. He had all the trappings of an aristocratic existence, and knew enough about that kind of scene to blend in, but wasn't actually a part of it himself, which made him perfect for espionage.
This is all alluded to in that excellent scene on the train with Vesper in the film. I guess transposing the character into the modern era would have seen Bond serve with the SBS (logical, given his naval rank) in the first Gulf war, the Kosovo and Bosnian wars and skirmishes to topple warlords and arms dealers in places like Sierra Leone and the Congo. I reckon Craig plays that to perfection - that experience would roughen your edges regardless of background. By contrast, during the conscription era of WWII, Bond's university education would have seen him straight into Fleming's role of naval intelligence. There would have been risky moments, but he wouldn't have faced a field full of Nazi artillery, flying bullets and seeing your best mates meeting the end of a bayonet.
It'd be interesting to see how Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy influences Mendes' direction. When Casino Royale came out it'd been blatantly influenced by the Bourne films. Now Bourne is over ten years old and has been imitated to death, especially by fellow American productions. Tinker, Tailor... has received a rapturous response and seems to be the new benchmark for modern spy films (even though it is set in the '70s). I reckon Skyfall may well be much more intellectual, with a complex plot more like The Living Daylights or For Your Eyes Only than some straightforward shoot-'em-up.
I actually quite like the idea of 'James Bond' turning out to be some shady Boys From Brazil/Hitman-style government project in which people fitting a certain background (orphaned at a young age, no close family etc) are backed by a 'mysterious benefactor' and channelled to follow a certain path. It'd clear up the mystery of this eternally youthful 'James Bond' going through six different guises over 50 years. The fact that we've had so many different Felix Leiters suggests something similar might happen over at Langley.
Daniel Craig's Bond stumbling upon some secret files in some remote Scottish MI6 safehouse and realising that he's not who he thinks he is (and Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan all died horrible deaths) would be quite some revelation. Makes sense from an espionage point of view too - if you're using several layers of false identity, it'd be near-impossible for any enemy to get any dirt on you if the 'real you' didn't actually 'exist'. You could film it in quite a Tinker, Tailor... way too - creeping around in the dark, secret documents, shadowy figures listening in doorways, clandestine meetings - that sort of thing.
Twincam16 said:
I actually quite like the idea of 'James Bond' turning out to be some shady Boys From Brazil/Hitman-style government project in which people fitting a certain background (orphaned at a young age, no close family etc) are backed by a 'mysterious benefactor' and channelled to follow a certain path. It'd clear up the mystery of this eternally youthful 'James Bond' going through six different guises over 50 years. The fact that we've had so many different Felix Leiters suggests something similar might happen over at Langley.
Daniel Craig's Bond stumbling upon some secret files in some remote Scottish MI6 safehouse and realising that he's not who he thinks he is (and Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan all died horrible deaths) would be quite some revelation. Makes sense from an espionage point of view too - if you're using several layers of false identity, it'd be near-impossible for any enemy to get any dirt on you if the 'real you' didn't actually 'exist'. You could film it in quite a Tinker, Tailor... way too - creeping around in the dark, secret documents, shadowy figures listening in doorways, clandestine meetings - that sort of thing.
So exactly like Jason Bourne then? Who isn't Bourne but David somebody (i forget) as he assumes the nomme du guerre when he kills the real Bourne in the training exercise in the The Bourne Supremacy.Daniel Craig's Bond stumbling upon some secret files in some remote Scottish MI6 safehouse and realising that he's not who he thinks he is (and Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan all died horrible deaths) would be quite some revelation. Makes sense from an espionage point of view too - if you're using several layers of false identity, it'd be near-impossible for any enemy to get any dirt on you if the 'real you' didn't actually 'exist'. You could film it in quite a Tinker, Tailor... way too - creeping around in the dark, secret documents, shadowy figures listening in doorways, clandestine meetings - that sort of thing.
I like the idea but it's been done.
arfur sleep said:
So exactly like Jason Bourne then? Who isn't Bourne but David somebody (i forget) as he assumes the nomme du guerre when he kills the real Bourne in the training exercise in the The Bourne Supremacy.
I like the idea but it's been done.
But the Bond back story goes back 60 years. It would be have more weight.I like the idea but it's been done.
Halb said:
arfur sleep said:
So exactly like Jason Bourne then? Who isn't Bourne but David somebody (i forget) as he assumes the nomme du guerre when he kills the real Bourne in the training exercise in the The Bourne Supremacy.
I like the idea but it's been done.
But the Bond back story goes back 60 years. It would be have more weight.I like the idea but it's been done.
-Plastic surgery to avoid him being recognised by his enemies.
-A codename given to one agent at any one time, with a specific back-story that never changes in order to fox the opposition.
-The old Moriarty 'There were three brothers, all called James' angle.
In the end they unofficially went for the codename but never made it explicit, with the exception of one scene, as it transpired - Lazenby musing 'this never happened to the other fellow.'
Problem is, since then there have been weak ties between the Bond actors to suggest it's the same bloke - but only very weak. Roger Moore's Bond laying flowers at Tracy's grave at the beginning of For Your Eyes Only, Felix Leiter recalling 'He was married once, but that was a long time ago' about Timothy Dalton's Bond following his wedding in Licence To Kill - OK, so those could be dupes or references to other people - but the blatant one that's harder to explain is the appearance of Bond in Pierce Brosnan's guise in the pre-titles sequence to Goldeneye set in 1986 - predating The Living Daylights and giving him Dalton's hairstyle. Then there's the whole Connery-Lazenby-Connery thing.
However, I do think it's 'something' that needs addressing. We all know the real reason behind the actor changing, but if Doctor Who can use the idea of regeneration, surely an explanation can be found for Bond, especially given that we're meant to believe Daniel Craig is an entirely fresh character regardless of 50 years of preceding films.
Twincam16 said:
-Plastic surgery to avoid him being recognised by his enemies.
-A codename given to one agent at any one time, with a specific back-story that never changes in order to fox the opposition.
-The old Moriarty 'There were three brothers, all called James' angle.
I didn't know it might have been official. I came up with it myself. The idea that James Bond is a title given to the best of the best of the best. When he ultimately (eventually) dies in the line of duty they have another selection process, and choose 006 or someone from outside. So he is the perennial nemesis of all enemies of UKG.-A codename given to one agent at any one time, with a specific back-story that never changes in order to fox the opposition.
-The old Moriarty 'There were three brothers, all called James' angle.
Halb said:
Twincam16 said:
-Plastic surgery to avoid him being recognised by his enemies.
-A codename given to one agent at any one time, with a specific back-story that never changes in order to fox the opposition.
-The old Moriarty 'There were three brothers, all called James' angle.
I didn't know it might have been official. I came up with it myself. The idea that James Bond is a title given to the best of the best of the best. When he ultimately (eventually) dies in the line of duty they have another selection process, and choose 006 or someone from outside. So he is the perennial nemesis of all enemies of UKG.-A codename given to one agent at any one time, with a specific back-story that never changes in order to fox the opposition.
-The old Moriarty 'There were three brothers, all called James' angle.
cardigankid said:
Halb said:
Twincam16 said:
-Plastic surgery to avoid him being recognised by his enemies.
-A codename given to one agent at any one time, with a specific back-story that never changes in order to fox the opposition.
-The old Moriarty 'There were three brothers, all called James' angle.
I didn't know it might have been official. I came up with it myself. The idea that James Bond is a title given to the best of the best of the best. When he ultimately (eventually) dies in the line of duty they have another selection process, and choose 006 or someone from outside. So he is the perennial nemesis of all enemies of UKG.-A codename given to one agent at any one time, with a specific back-story that never changes in order to fox the opposition.
-The old Moriarty 'There were three brothers, all called James' angle.
-Something about a downed British intelligence satellite and MI6's attempts to recover it.
-Something about a major controversy in M's past, which ultimately sees her replaced by Ralph Fiennes.
-It doesn't involve the Quantum organisation.
-Large chunks of it seem to be set in England and Scotland, and there are several actors apparently playing MI6 officials (Albert Finney, Ben Chaplin, even heard rumous about Maggie Smith).
-There's a female 00-agent played by Naomi Harris called Eve.
Taking all that into account, it may well involve a conspiracy deep inside MI6, uncovered by Bond and Eve, concerning Bond's own past (or what he thinks is his past). Maybe the information is contained within, or revealed by, the satellite, and whoever has it (Javier Bardem) is holding the UK government to ransom over it - which would suit his psychonutter-with-a-grudge performance rather than something involving hollowed out volcanoes.
I'm seriously looking forward to it. And I'd love the 'conspiracy' to be something to do with MI6 rather than a supervillain. Some of the best Bond films (Licence To Kill, for example) have involved plots that veered away from the usual 'Bond versus supervillain, something international at stake' setup.
Just finished QoS.
OK so it's a mess, but I do like the edginess of Bond, the style, the characterisation of M, a great deal of it. Sadly the lines and the hopeless set-pieces let it down for me.
I do hope they get a new fight director, and let go with the silly car chases and whatnot, a good film cannot be rinsed from that sort of stuff.
I really want Skyfall to be a cool film.
OK so it's a mess, but I do like the edginess of Bond, the style, the characterisation of M, a great deal of it. Sadly the lines and the hopeless set-pieces let it down for me.
I do hope they get a new fight director, and let go with the silly car chases and whatnot, a good film cannot be rinsed from that sort of stuff.
I really want Skyfall to be a cool film.
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff