Bond 23 - Skyfall
Discussion
944fan said:
Die Another Day started well, the opening was good, the sword fight, then the meeting in the underground station. Then they started talking about invisible cars, and "lasers" and it went downhill rapidly.
"Aston Martin called it the Vanquish, we call it the Vanish".I remember that line.
TheGroover said:
theironduke said:
Anybody booked tickets for friday?
Last time I did was for Prometheus.....lets hope this time the hype is matched by the reality
Me! I think I should watch Casino Royale and QoS again before friday.Last time I did was for Prometheus.....lets hope this time the hype is matched by the reality
Can't wait.
944fan said:
Die Another Day started well, the opening was good, the sword fight, then the meeting in the underground station. Then they started talking about invisible cars, and "lasers" and it went downhill rapidly.
I agree. Brosnan was a good Bond, but was thoroughly abused by the scriptwriters, who must have been backhanded their own bodyweight in Omega watches, Brioni suits and Smirnoff.I didn't mind Goldeneye and The World Is Not Enough, but Tomorrow Never Dies was a pale retread of The Spy Who Loved Me (every plot-point was copied and updated), and Die Another Day was just risible.
Thing is, although people always say 'it's a Bond film, it doesn't have a plot', they're actually talking b
ks. The plot is the most important thing about any spy thriller. You want a film without a plot? Check out the latest four-hour black-and-white Lithuanian ponderfest projected on the wall at your nearest art gallery. There's a film without a plot. Actually, some of the greatest films are without plots - 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example.Problem with the Brosnan films was that the plots seemed to hinge on gadgets and the use of gadgets rather than the actions and decisions of people. It was always 'Bond placed in danger, Bond presses button on product-placed gadget, closeup of gadget, gadget helps Bond escape in a rather contrived way' (I mean, come on - a grappling hook in a watch (Omega) powerful enough to propel a man up three floors with a piton stuck in the roof of a nuclear bunker, with closeups of the face every time he presses it? Really?)
Product placement featured in Bond before, but it was in the Ian Fleming tradition of namechecking things to paint an accurate picture of the circles Bond moves in, rather than an excuse for a closeup. Even when Bond says his watch is an Omega in Casino Royale, you don't actually see it, and Vesper misidentifies it as a Rolex. Yes, OK, product placement, but not actually that contrived (she's putting Bond down at the time so the watch is actually being discussed in a negative light). He doesn't shove it right in the camera lens and use it to escape from Le Chiffre's lair. The lack of gadgets in the Craig films IMO says a lot about what they'd found wanting in the Brosnan films.
TheHeretic said:
2001 had no plot? Really?
Not in the sense of characters knowing things other characters don't and acting independently. There's no dramatic irony in it anywhere. There are hardly any actual 'events' in the film (could be narrowed down to 'monolith discovered on moon, HAL kills all but one astronaut on a mission to Jupiter, Kier Dullea encounters another monolith, ending open to interpretation), it just sort-of 'happens' and the drama is in the characters themselves.This doesn't stop it being a great film, but compare the summary of its events (you could do the same with 'Le Mans' actually - there's no plot other than 'cars race, some crash, one wins') to those of a Bond film and 007's antics will fill half a page rather than a few cursory lines here and there. Bond films (and nearly all thrillers) are plot-driven, rather than character-driven films.
Isn't someone working on an invisible car? Sure I saw it on soem prgramme.
I like the Bond film plots. I think when the plot gives way to stupid stunt set pieces is when it falls apart for me. I get sooooooo bored with it. Especially with some camera-work. IMO the camera-work on QoS was st.
I like the Bond film plots. I think when the plot gives way to stupid stunt set pieces is when it falls apart for me. I get sooooooo bored with it. Especially with some camera-work. IMO the camera-work on QoS was s
t.Halb said:
Isn't someone working on an invisible car? Sure I saw it on soem prgramme.
I like the Bond film plots. I think when the plot gives way to stupid stunt set pieces is when it falls apart for me. I get sooooooo bored with it. Especially with some camera-work. IMO the camera-work on QoS was st.
Looks like there's plenty of this nonsense in Skyfall too. The trailer shows Bond falling into a tube tunnel and doing hand to hand combat with a tube train by the looks of it!I like the Bond film plots. I think when the plot gives way to stupid stunt set pieces is when it falls apart for me. I get sooooooo bored with it. Especially with some camera-work. IMO the camera-work on QoS was s
t.Edited by RichB on Tuesday 23 October 20:21
Twincam16 said:
TheHeretic said:
2001 had no plot? Really?
Not in the sense of characters knowing things other characters don't and acting independently. There's no dramatic irony in it anywhere. There are hardly any actual 'events' in the film (could be narrowed down to 'monolith discovered on moon, HAL kills all but one astronaut on a mission to Jupiter, Kier Dullea encounters another monolith, ending open to interpretation), it just sort-of 'happens' and the drama is in the characters themselves.This doesn't stop it being a great film, but compare the summary of its events (you could do the same with 'Le Mans' actually - there's no plot other than 'cars race, some crash, one wins') to those of a Bond film and 007's antics will fill half a page rather than a few cursory lines here and there. Bond films (and nearly all thrillers) are plot-driven, rather than character-driven films.
Bedazzled said:
Doesn't work very well then... 
RichB said:
Looks like there's plenty of this nonsense in Skyfall too. The trailer shows Bond falling into a tube tunnel and doing hand to hand combat with a tube train by the looks of it!
Yes. Am a bit concerned by that part of the trailer. I can only hope that the cameraman isn't trying to dance an Irish jig while sneakily stroking one off while filming this. Like the one in QoS was, so I at least know what's going on.Edited by RichB on Tuesday 23 October 20:21
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