Bond 23 - Skyfall
Discussion
RichB said:
Ari said:
Yes, Bond had no class in Casino Royale, that was kind of the point!! It was back to the very beginning for the story. "shaken or stirred?" "Do I look like I care?" Bond becoming Bond, that was the point!
You have read Fleming's book haven't you? However it does seem to me that DC's Bond is trying to get closer to the book Bond.
Ari said:
RichB said:
Ari said:
Yes, Bond had no class in Casino Royale, that was kind of the point!! It was back to the very beginning for the story. "shaken or stirred?" "Do I look like I care?" Bond becoming Bond, that was the point!
You have read Fleming's book haven't you? 
RichB said:
ot sure, I too have read all Fleming's books and I would say Bond is portrayed as sophisticated. The martini cocktails, smart suits, pigskin suitcase, his preference for a pre-war Bentley - it's all there. While he is tough he is certainly not lacking in either taste or class.
That's what we get in CR isn't it? Craig whatsit playing a JB who wants to be that character, with his shiny suits and watch. The kind of persona that Eva Green sees through in a second in the clever dialogue on the train. I cannot recall now but isn't he rattled when ordering the drink at the bar. We see JB at the beginning, he is still trying to smooth the edges off that rough diamond.RichB said:
ot sure, I too have read all Fleming's books and I would say Bond is portrayed as sophisticated. The martini cocktails, smart suits, pigskin suitcase, his preference for a pre-war Bentley - it's all there. While he is tough he is certainly not lacking in either taste or class.
Mind you, in the early fifties a pre war Bentley then would be just a posh second hand car.Modern equivalent would be something like a late XJS or 928 I suppose. Except that in the 50s the modern concept of 'classic cars' didn't really exist.
Dr Jekyll said:
RichB said:
ot sure, I too have read all Fleming's books and I would say Bond is portrayed as sophisticated. The martini cocktails, smart suits, pigskin suitcase, his preference for a pre-war Bentley - it's all there. While he is tough he is certainly not lacking in either taste or class.
Mind you, in the early fifties a pre war Bentley then would be just a posh second hand car.Modern equivalent would be something like a late XJS or 928 I suppose. Except that in the 50s the modern concept of 'classic cars' didn't really exist.
RichB said:
But that's exactly what I'm getting at, posh and second hand - class and taste on a civil servant's salary. I never commented on Daniel Craig as Bond I simply disagree that in Fleming's books he has no class because he does.
In one of the books Fleming describes Bond as having "£1,200 a year of his own" (IIRC) - a reference to Bond having independent money. Fleming's Bond (from the books) lived in a flat in London, had a Scottish housekeeper called May and drove a Bentley.Halb said:
RichB said:
ot sure, I too have read all Fleming's books and I would say Bond is portrayed as sophisticated. The martini cocktails, smart suits, pigskin suitcase, his preference for a pre-war Bentley - it's all there. While he is tough he is certainly not lacking in either taste or class.
That's what we get in CR isn't it? Craig whatsit playing a JB who wants to be that character, with his shiny suits and watch. The kind of persona that Eva Green sees through in a second in the clever dialogue on the train. I cannot recall now but isn't he rattled when ordering the drink at the bar. We see JB at the beginning, he is still trying to smooth the edges off that rough diamond.What Fleming also did however was to endow Bond with his own sophisticated tastes and glamorous aspirations. Fleming knew what the high life was in the 40's and 50's, and after Bond he was living it. Bond is a member of a gentlemen's club, has a taste for gambling and women, he knows his fine wines and seriously expensive cars. He had to have the private income and improbable gambling wins just to explain how he maintained that kind of lifestyle. Appealing as it may be, I don't think however that Fleming's character was totally resolved. Who seriously thinks a secret agent in 1948 is going to motor around in a 1930 4 1/2 litre supercharged Bentley? That is Bulldog Drummond stuff, or 'Biggles with a cock' as another perceptive individual said. As for a Bentley in the 50's being a posh second hand car, as one poster stated, can we get a little more real here. Some of the Bentleys Bond drives, like the convertible R-Type Continental were the most expensive and fastest hand built cars on the planet, and even second hand, only for the super-rich.
Where Ian Fleming succeeded brilliantly however, and I believe he was a superb writer, was in making Bond simultaneously glamorous, yet gritty and realistic. CR's take on Bond sketches the rough ex-SAS type with aspirations above his station. It was an really enjoyable attempt to develop the Bond character in line with Fleming's books, and give him depth, which I applaud and want to see more of, though we should remember that is something that Fleming himself never attempted to do. Any one writing or filming Bond has to recognise this issue, and decide how they are going to deal with it.
Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 14th February 10:38
cardigankid said:
As for a Bentley in the 50's being a posh second hand car, as one poster stated, can we get a little more real here. Some of the Bentleys Bond drives, like the convertible R-Type Continental were the most expensive and fastest hand built cars on the planet,
I was referring to the pre war Bentley, the 'locomotive'. They were surprisingly cheap in the 50's.All very interesting stuff and it demonstrates the appeal of Fleming's creation. Regarding his Bentley (and I'm too busy to get the books off the shelf and scan through them) but I don't believe it was a 1930 Blower Bentley in the Biggles Le Mans type style. It's my recollection that it was an open top Bentley from around 1937 in battleship grey which he kept unpolished so as to remain understated. This would of course have been the case in the environs of Mayfair and Knightsbridge. I have never thought of Bond in the classic "Le Mans Blower Bentley".
Thoughts?
Something more like this...
Thoughts?
Something more like this...
cardigankid said:
CR's take on Bond sketches the rough ex-SAS type with aspirations above his station. It was an really enjoyable attempt to develop the Bond character in line with Fleming's books, and give him depth, which I applaud and want to see more of, though we should remember that is something that Fleming himself never attempted to do. Any one writing or filming Bond has to recognise this issue, and decide how they are going to deal with it.
I agree, but also (and I'm sure you had this in mind) to project Bond's character into the 21st century.An element of this is the post Bourne spy film (interesting that Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy has been such a success, a less Bourne inspired story is hard to imagine, although I've not seen the film yet, so maybe Smiley attacks someone with a biro at some point
), but also the case that anyone in the SBS (or similar) these days would hardly be likely to be a high-living toff with a Bentley. They'd have been in action in Iraq, Afghanistan or somewhere and, whilst expected to display intelligence and self-reliance would also be a tough, cold blooded type who would kill without pause if the situation demanded it.The Bond of WW2 was a very different man to that of today and that's what the CR film was trying to represent. Unfortunately, the scenario of CR required a man of sophistication, who really didn't fit the mould of the former SBS/SAS man. It seems highly unlikely that the Bond of CR would have been selected for this mission - They'd probably have used a diplomat (and sent Bond as a minder for him).
M
I may have missed a bit in this long thread, but do we actually know what Bond is driving in Skyfall?
I know we've seen him in a DB5 and there are Jag XJs being filmed along with Range Rovers, but is he in an Aston?
I would guess that given when its coming out it could be an all new car? Maybe the DBS replacement?
Or have they gone for the XKR? Oooh, speculation...
I know we've seen him in a DB5 and there are Jag XJs being filmed along with Range Rovers, but is he in an Aston?
I would guess that given when its coming out it could be an all new car? Maybe the DBS replacement?
Or have they gone for the XKR? Oooh, speculation...
Beefmeister said:
I may have missed a bit in this long thread, but do we actually know what Bond is driving in Skyfall?
I know we've seen him in a DB5 and there are Jag XJs being filmed along with Range Rovers, but is he in an Aston?
I would guess that given when its coming out it could be an all new car? Maybe the DBS replacement?
Or have they gone for the XKR? Oooh, speculation...
I'd imagine that the DB5 that the Daily Mail mentioned will be his personal car, and no doubt he'll also be driving something more modern for 'work', and the car chases.I know we've seen him in a DB5 and there are Jag XJs being filmed along with Range Rovers, but is he in an Aston?
I would guess that given when its coming out it could be an all new car? Maybe the DBS replacement?
Or have they gone for the XKR? Oooh, speculation...
I have to agree with one of the above posters regarding Daniel Craig. While I really enjoy most of the characters he plays, and like seeing him in films, all the interviews etc I've seen make him out to be a massive cock. It could just be that he doesn't particularly like interviews or something, but still.
RichB said:
... Regarding his Bentley (and I'm too busy to get the books off the shelf and scan through them) but I don't believe it was a 1930 Blower Bentley in the Biggles Le Mans type style. It's my recollection that it was an open top Bentley from around 1937 in battleship grey which he kept unpolished so as to remain understated. This would of course have been the case in the environs of Mayfair and Knightsbridge. I have never thought of Bond in the classic "Le Mans Blower Bentley".
Thoughts?
Something more like this...
I agree that would have been a far better choice of car, but though I can't put my hands on my copy of Casino Royale just now, my recollection corresponds with the following:-Thoughts?
Something more like this...
"James Bond’s first Bentley was a 4½ litre with Amherst Villiers supercharger, one of the “blower” Bentleys originally built in Welwyn Garden City in 1929/30 – just 55 were made, compared with 665 normally aspirated cars – with a distinctive supercharger mounted forward of the radiator grill. The convertible coupe was battleship grey, with large French Marchal headlamps and Bond supposedly acquired the car in 1933, setting up all kinds of problems when it comes to pinpoint his date of birth.
This Bentley was badly damaged in Casino Royale but was repaired to make a reappearance in the third book, Moonraker; its revival was short-lived though, as it was damaged beyond repair when giant rolls of newsprint were released from the back of a lorry while in pursuit of Hugo Drax."
Read more http://www.tjbd.co.uk/content/cars/james-bond-cars...
Zod said:
He drives an Aston in the book of Goldfinger, by the way.
Indeed, A DB 2/4 MkIII incorrectly referred to by Fleming as a DB III. This has caused much confusion since because Aston never made a DB III. They made a DB3 which was a sports racing car first sold in 52 and then a DB 2/4 MkIII (to give it its full name), the final development of the DB2, launched in 57. Either way this was his company car which he chose from Q's pool in preference to a Mk2 Jaguar because it had space to conceal a few discrete items like a gun tray under the seat. Fleming obviously never actually sat in a DB MkIII 
Casino Royale, published April 1953, page 44 -
"Bond's car was his only personal hobby. One of the last of the 4 1/2 Litre Bentleys with the supercharger by Amherst Villiers, he had bought it almost new in 1933 and had kept it in careful storage through the war. It was still serviced every year and, in London, a former Bentley mechanic, who worked in a garage near Bond's Chelsea flat, tended it with jealous care...etc etc"
Anybody driving a vintage Bentley round London in the early 50's would have looked like an exhibitionist madman. Fleming gets away with it because most of the readership don't really know what he is talking about. They have a rough picture of a convertible Bentley in the back of their mind, and all the stuff about engines and superchargers just sounds like convincing detail. Like so much stuff in his books, Fleming manages to make the utterly improbable sound like things that could happen every day. That is part of his undoubted talent.
"Bond's car was his only personal hobby. One of the last of the 4 1/2 Litre Bentleys with the supercharger by Amherst Villiers, he had bought it almost new in 1933 and had kept it in careful storage through the war. It was still serviced every year and, in London, a former Bentley mechanic, who worked in a garage near Bond's Chelsea flat, tended it with jealous care...etc etc"
Anybody driving a vintage Bentley round London in the early 50's would have looked like an exhibitionist madman. Fleming gets away with it because most of the readership don't really know what he is talking about. They have a rough picture of a convertible Bentley in the back of their mind, and all the stuff about engines and superchargers just sounds like convincing detail. Like so much stuff in his books, Fleming manages to make the utterly improbable sound like things that could happen every day. That is part of his undoubted talent.
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