Bond 23 - Skyfall

[SWoll]

BenM77 said:

I think DC plays an excellent Bond, CR was a great film but QoS was ok rather than excellent, but I would put this down to plot/direction rather than DC.

Really looking forward to Skyfall, DC has a harder edge to him and has made his own mark on the role. If you like Bond films like I do then you can forgive quite a bit, some of Moore's films were a bit cheesy but others rivalled Connery's best. Timothy Dalton was excellent as Bond and it is a shame he only made two. Brosnan's first three were good but his last is not a Bond film, absolute rubbish.

OT. If you like the Bourne films but haven't read the books you will be surprised how far off they are. Great books and really worth a read, as are all Ludlum's earlier books

Edited by BenM77 on Saturday 4th February 16:13

Agree with almost everything above, including the comments regarding Ludlum's books.

The only issue I would take is that IMO PB was only in one decent Bond film, Goldeneye, I thought the rest were pretty poor.

[Twincam16]

ApexJimi said:

Well, it's nice to see that I'm not the only Dalton fan!

I think I'd be willing to suggest that Dalton's Bond is second only to Craig's. Anyone else agree?

Possibly. There's something 'definitive' about Connery's portrayal, although interestingly Dalton and Craig are the only ones who have said specifically that they read the Fleming books as part of their research before taking on the part. Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Brosnan let the directors decide on more of the character's aspects.

I think it'd be interesting to have seen Dalton do all the '80s Bond films as he was supposed to have done. The opening scene of For Your Eyes Only was specifically written in to introduce a new Bond actor (originally the pre-titles sequence ended with Gonzales machine-gunning the Havelocks to death), which is why it seems so absurd with Roger Moore in it. Given that Dalton got several parts of The Living Daylights rewritten to be less 'jokey' (double-taking pigeons, disbelieving drunk passers-by etc), he probably would have forced similar changes to For Your Eyes Only (which beyond the pre-titles sequence is pretty low-key and 'realistic' as it is), Octopussy and A View To A Kill which might have made them far more watchable. Losing 'joke' sequences and having a younger lead actor who can engage in fight sequences more convincingly would have made them better films IMO.

Annoyingly he was contracted to do something else in 1981 and we got Roger Moore for five years longer than we were supposed to have. Shame.

[Zod]

Moore looks absurdly old in View to a Kill.

[Halb]

Zod said:

Moore looks absurdly old in View to a Kill.

Yes. I still like it though.


Dalton was also looked at for Bond at the same time as Moore, but ruled himself out because he felt he was too young.

[Zod]

I have dived with the man who taught Dalton to dive for the Bond role.

What a claim to fame, eh?

[BenM77]

ApexJimi said:

Well, it's nice to see that I'm not the only Dalton fan!

I think I'd be willing to suggest that Dalton's Bond is second only to Craig's. Anyone else agree?

Yep, definitely a fan of the two Dalton films. This is why I was so happy to see Daniel Craig go more that direction with the excellent first film CR.

After QoS it is still up to him to prove as good as Dalton IMO. Connery remains untouchable

@Swoll

I agree that Goldeneye is the best of PB's films but the next two were no way near as bad as the last. I watched Die Another Day at the cinema and me and my brother were openly laughing at how crap it was

[chris watton]

Twincam16 said:

Possibly. There's something 'definitive' about Connery's portrayal, although interestingly Dalton and Craig are the only ones who have said specifically that they read the Fleming books as part of their research before taking on the part. Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Brosnan let the directors decide on more of the character's aspects.

I think it'd be interesting to have seen Dalton do all the '80s Bond films as he was supposed to have done. The opening scene of For Your Eyes Only was specifically written in to introduce a new Bond actor (originally the pre-titles sequence ended with Gonzales machine-gunning the Havelocks to death), which is why it seems so absurd with Roger Moore in it. Given that Dalton got several parts of The Living Daylights rewritten to be less 'jokey' (double-taking pigeons, disbelieving drunk passers-by etc), he probably would have forced similar changes to For Your Eyes Only (which beyond the pre-titles sequence is pretty low-key and 'realistic' as it is), Octopussy and A View To A Kill which might have made them far more watchable. Losing 'joke' sequences and having a younger lead actor who can engage in fight sequences more convincingly would have made them better films IMO.

Annoyingly he was contracted to do something else in 1981 and we got Roger Moore for five years longer than we were supposed to have. Shame.

I remember me and my mates going to the cinema in 1985 to watch A View To A Kill, and thinking that that was the last time we watch any new Bond film.
The worst scene involving a very poor attempt at a joke was when Q (I think, been years since I watched it) used this new gadget that could see through stuff, and then take pictures. They did this to, and a picture in the background was shown with its skeleton showing! Why! It didn’t raise even a titter in the whole cinema!
Aside from that, Moore was at that time way, way too old to give the character any ounce of credibility – I also remember him carrying Tanya Roberts from a building on fire, and her dress was still brilliant white, not a mark on it!

ETA - I think I got the right film......haven't watched any of the old ones for over 20 years.....

Edited by chris watton on Monday 6th February 19:16

[Halb]

Tanya Roberts (and the Russian spy from same film) are amongst my fave eye-candies from Bond.

Zod said:

I have dived with the man who taught Dalton to dive for the Bond role.

What a claim to fame, eh?

So long as you didn't feed him to the shark.

[ApexJimi]

Is Shadytree still on PH? If so I'm surprised he hasn't discovered this thread!

[BenM77]

Halb said:

Tanya Roberts (and the Russian spy from same film) are amongst my fave eye-candies from Bond.

Very nice

The bond girls from the older films were gorgeous, really natural, curvy, beautiful girls.

[Shadytree]

ApexJimi said:

Is Shadytree still on PH? If so I'm surprised he hasn't discovered this thread!

Cheers Ian.

I more of a casual observer and voyeur now days Maybe because I actually do some work during the day now!

[Zod]

Halb said:

Tanya Roberts (and the Russian spy from same film) are amongst my fave eye-candies from Bond.

Zod said:

I have dived with the man who taught Dalton to dive for the Bond role.

What a claim to fame, eh?

So long as you didn't feed him to the shark.

He'd be a bloody huge meal!

[marcosgt]

I'm a Dalton fan too, although I'd place him second behind Connery just ahead of Craig (As others say, there's too much Bourne in the new Bond films), but he suffered a bit from the films still having a hangover from the worst excesses of the Moore days (even he was ok early on - Live and Let Die has some great moments).

Generally, I think Dalton in License Revoked (as it SHOULD have been called) was as believable a Bond as I've ever seen, angry, vengeful, barely in control - Craig tried the same and just looked like he was about to cry

Of course, YOUR Bond is always the best and mine was Connery, so everyone else fails to be him.

M.

[chris watton]

marcosgt said:

I'm a Dalton fan too, although I'd place him second behind Connery just ahead of Craig (As others say, there's too much Bourne in the new Bond films), but he suffered a bit from the films still having a hangover from the worst excesses of the Moore days (even he was ok early on - Live and Let Die has some great moments).

Generally, I think Dalton in License Revoked (as it SHOULD have been called) was as believable a Bond as I've ever seen, angry, vengeful, barely in control - Craig tried the same and just looked like he was about to cry

Of course, YOUR Bond is always the best and mine was Connery, so everyone else fails to be him.

M.

Licence to Kill is one of my favorites, as it falls into the action/thriller category, as opposed to the fantasy/parody/spoof cul-de-sac the franchise fell into.

[KB_S1]

Zod said:

He'd be a bloody huge meal!

So, I see how that guy dives, but how does he surface again?

[Ed5995]

DJFish said:

I still maintain that George Lazenby had potential to be a brilliant Bond, OHMSS had a few dodgy moments but I still prefer it to most of the Moore films and the later Brosnan films.
I agree that really blatant product placement should be kept to a minimum, but then Flemings Bond was a bit of a brand snob.
It's the use of CGI I really dislike.

Totally agree about Lazenby - much under-rated and miles better than Brosnan. Keep CGI out of Bond movies and Astons in.

[Twincam16]

Ed5995 said:

DJFish said:

I still maintain that George Lazenby had potential to be a brilliant Bond, OHMSS had a few dodgy moments but I still prefer it to most of the Moore films and the later Brosnan films.
I agree that really blatant product placement should be kept to a minimum, but then Flemings Bond was a bit of a brand snob.
It's the use of CGI I really dislike.

Totally agree about Lazenby - much under-rated and miles better than Brosnan. Keep CGI out of Bond movies and Astons in.

I think it's true Lazenby needs a general reassessment as Bond. For years he was written off as wooden, but I think that's unfair.

True, he wasn't a vastly experienced actor (he'd only really done commercials and modelling before Bond), but as a result he comes across as very 'natural'.

And because of that, his performance is a lot more 'human' and definitely more emotional than Connery. When girls were killed in Connery films, he'd just remain completely emotionally detatched. When he was getting shot at, he'd remain completely professional. OK, in keeping with the character, but oddly enough a bit two-dimensional.

OK, so Lazenby fluffs a few lines here and there, but there are a few moments when he acts scenes in OHMSS in a completely different - and dare I say it, better - way than Connery would have done. I'm thinking:

-The scene in the Alpine village when he's escaped from Piz Gloria and is being hunted down by Blofeld's henchmen. Connery would have crept about in the dark, expression unchanged, slickly offing them one-by-one. Lazenby by contrast looks genuinely bewildered and worried, and successfully conveys the notion that he is in a crowded, unknown place, unarmed, without a proper escape plan and potentially surrounded by people who are intent on killing him.

-The final scene. Bond cries - and for good reason - but would Connery have done that? Somehow I doubt it.

Ther are a few other moments like that, thant make me think that actually he wasn't that bad. Certainly better than Moore's later outings. Daft thing is, quips, gadgets and absurd set-pieces aside, the plots of the '80s Moore Bonds were actually better than the '70s films. I watched The Spy Who Loved Me fairly recently, my memory telling me it was one of Moore's better moments. How wrong was I. With the exception of the scenes involving the Lotus Esprit it borders on unwatchable.

[Halb]

Twincam16 said:

-The final scene. Bond cries - and for good reason - but would Connery have done that? Somehow I doubt it.

George said he did that in a really good take and it was quite emotional. But the director didn't like Bond looking too weepy (it was his wife ffs!) and so they redid it with a more staid less weepy performance, which George then got hit for 'being too wooden'!

[Zod]

KB_S1 said:

Zod said:

He'd be a bloody huge meal!

So, I see how that guy dives, but how does he surface again?

Fat floats.

[Twincam16]

Halb said:

Twincam16 said:

-The final scene. Bond cries - and for good reason - but would Connery have done that? Somehow I doubt it.

George said he did that in a really good take and it was quite emotional. But the director didn't like Bond looking too weepy (it was his wife ffs!) and so they redid it with a more staid less weepy performance, which George then got hit for 'being too wooden'!

Apparently in order to provoke the right emotions, Peter Hunt unexpectedly locked George Lazenby in his trailer, pocketed the key and left him there most of the day. They filmed the final scene late afternoon, and the look on Lazenby's face is one of genuine tiredness, boredom and resentment.

No director would feel the need to do so with Connery, but I think the end result would be more along the lines of 'the bh is dead'.