How To Build... A Supercar
Discussion
P-Jay said:
...
I found the level of detail that McLaren go in to is amazing, it's totally at odds with the worlds perception of British Manufacturing which could be summed up as "that'll do" and "if it aint broke".
If I was in a position to do so I'd buy an MP4 48f (still a stupid name) or whatever in a heartbeat, engineering and design excellence greater than a Porsche 911 with greater performance and flair than a Ferrari 458, with genuine F1 technology.
...
Do you actually believe that what they are doing is better than other Brit companies? Range Rover? Aston Martin? Jaguar. You mention zee Germans? Particularly comparing to the 911. (Lets use a GT2 as a comparisson) It's going to built equally well. Design excellence? Well when a GT2 rolls out to the customer, they tend to have working sat nav and radio, and if it's raining they can open the doors I found the level of detail that McLaren go in to is amazing, it's totally at odds with the worlds perception of British Manufacturing which could be summed up as "that'll do" and "if it aint broke".
If I was in a position to do so I'd buy an MP4 48f (still a stupid name) or whatever in a heartbeat, engineering and design excellence greater than a Porsche 911 with greater performance and flair than a Ferrari 458, with genuine F1 technology.
...
Performance is similar. And this "genuine F1 technology" is interesting. Can you identify what McLaren are doing that hasn't been done before? For example Brake Steer is a variation of ESP used on loads of cars.And no performance car worth it's salt doesn't have a proper mechanical LSD
Rich_W said:
Do you actually believe that what they are doing is better than other Brit companies? Range Rover? Aston Martin? Jaguar. You mention zee Germans? Particularly comparing to the 911. (Lets use a GT2 as a comparison) It's going to built equally well. Design excellence? Well when a GT2 rolls out to the customer, they tend to have working sat nav and radio, and if it's raining they can open the doors Performance is similar. And this "genuine F1 technology" is interesting. Can you identify what McLaren are doing that hasn't been done before? For example Brake Steer is a variation of ESP used on loads of cars.
And no performance car worth it's salt doesn't have a proper mechanical LSD
Fine, you won't be buying one and sticking with your Porsche GT2 - assuming you're in the market for such a car. But why knock British engineering & technology so dismissively? You do have first hand experience of both cars I guess? Performance is similar. And this "genuine F1 technology" is interesting. Can you identify what McLaren are doing that hasn't been done before? For example Brake Steer is a variation of ESP used on loads of cars.And no performance car worth it's salt doesn't have a proper mechanical LSD
Rich_W said:
Do you actually believe that what they are doing is better than other Brit companies? Range Rover? Aston Martin? Jaguar. You mention zee Germans? Particularly comparing to the 911. (Lets use a GT2 as a comparisson) It's going to built equally well. Design excellence? Well when a GT2 rolls out to the customer, they tend to have working sat nav and radio, and if it's raining they can open the doors Performance is similar. And this "genuine F1 technology" is interesting. Can you identify what McLaren are doing that hasn't been done before? For example Brake Steer is a variation of ESP used on loads of cars.
And no performance car worth it's salt doesn't have a proper mechanical LSD
You're also picking faults on there on a brand new car. Faults on brand new models always happen, it's why you have a warranty. Christ, what would you prefer, your doors not to work if they're wet and it be an easy fox, or the car do a 458 and decide it wants to burn you alive? Suddenly the Mclaren becomes the lesser of 2 evils.... Performance is similar. And this "genuine F1 technology" is interesting. Can you identify what McLaren are doing that hasn't been done before? For example Brake Steer is a variation of ESP used on loads of cars.And no performance car worth it's salt doesn't have a proper mechanical LSD
I really enjoyed this episode. Yes, it's dumbed down, but as has been said, it was the BBC doing a show about the 12C, without once trying to push their usual b
ks.
After watching it, the 12C is now a car I desperately would love to own and if I were in the market, I'd get one (because a Murci SV would cost another £60k or so).
There was a poster earlier talking about ordering the 12C or a 458, get the 12C!! But then, I like rare cars, that aren't on the normal list of choices when looking for something specific. When you say supercar the instant thoughts are Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche followind now by Aston or Audi R8.
ks.After watching it, the 12C is now a car I desperately would love to own and if I were in the market, I'd get one (because a Murci SV would cost another £60k or so).
There was a poster earlier talking about ordering the 12C or a 458, get the 12C!! But then, I like rare cars, that aren't on the normal list of choices when looking for something specific. When you say supercar the instant thoughts are Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche followind now by Aston or Audi R8.
RichB said:
Fine, you won't be buying one and sticking with your Porsche GT2 - assuming you're in the market for such a car. But why knock British engineering & technology so dismissively? You do have first hand experience of both cars I guess?
I'm not really knocking it really. (the teething faults were a cheap shot I admit) I'm not in the market for anything much more than £5K 
And whilst I wouldn't buy one if I was in the position to. Would buy an F1 though. I still want it to be a sucess. And I still want Jenson and Lewis to win races. So this isn't some Anti McLaren bias. (though maybe on PH it would be better to admit you like the company of an animal in Bed than say you aren't a fan of Rons company )I'm knocking the daft hyperbole we get on this site everytime the car is mentioned.
Them McLaren blinkers are silly. Be proud they are doing it. Buy one if you want. But don't be so Xenophobic as to assume that just because it's manufacturered mainly over here it's the best in the world. This 12C will be put together JUST as well as a £100K Range Rover (British dontchaknow
) or a £150K 911. i.e. properly to a high standard. The technology in it will be as good as the best the Germans, Italians and whoever else can manufacture. Duty cycling, NCAP 5 stars, etc etc. I think the area that McLaren have done REALLY well is the CF manufacturing process. But that will get copied eventually. I can bet their competitors are already investigating how to.
Certain posters here seem to do 1 or 2 things. Either they mention the fact that people with an opposing view can't buy it anyway. OR they mention the wheel arch liners on F458 Clearly not what you'd want.
But no one is perfect.
Some people need to learn some perspective.
Edited by Rich_W on Wednesday 23 November 19:14
Rich_W said:
I'm not really knocking it really. (the teething faults were a cheap shot I admit) I'm not in the market for anything much more than £5K And whilst I wouldn't buy one if I was in the position to. I still want it to be a sucess. And I still want Jenson and Lewis to win races. So this isn't some Anti McLaren bias. (though maybe on PH it would be better to admit you like the company of an animal in Bed than say you aren't a fan of Rons company )
I'm knocking the daft hyperbole we get on this site everytime the car is mentioned.
Them McLaren blinkers are daft. Be proud they are doing it. Buy one if you want. But don't be so Xenophobic as to assume that just because it's manufacturered mainly over here it's the best in the world. This 12C will be put together JUST as well as a £100K Range Rover (British dontchaknow ) or a £150K 911. i.e. properly to a high standard. The technology in it will be as good as the best the Germans, Italians and whoever else can manufacture. Duty cycling, NCAP 5 stars, etc etc.
I think the area that McLaren have done REALLY well is the CF manufacturing process. But that will get copied eventually. I can bet their competitors are already investigating how to.
Certain posters here seem to do 1 or 2 things. Either they mention the fact that people with an opposing view can't buy it anyway. OR they mention the wheel arch liners on F458 Clearly not what you'd want. But no one is perfect.
Some people need to learn some perspective.
Fair enough. I'm not intending to sell my Aston so I won't be buying one either but I guess that if I were about to drop £150k on a car "Britishness" would be one of my considerations. Perhaps that's why I have an Aston as opposed to a Ferrari or Maserati. And whilst I wouldn't buy one if I was in the position to. I still want it to be a sucess. And I still want Jenson and Lewis to win races. So this isn't some Anti McLaren bias. (though maybe on PH it would be better to admit you like the company of an animal in Bed than say you aren't a fan of Rons company )I'm knocking the daft hyperbole we get on this site everytime the car is mentioned.
Them McLaren blinkers are daft. Be proud they are doing it. Buy one if you want. But don't be so Xenophobic as to assume that just because it's manufacturered mainly over here it's the best in the world. This 12C will be put together JUST as well as a £100K Range Rover (British dontchaknow
) or a £150K 911. i.e. properly to a high standard. The technology in it will be as good as the best the Germans, Italians and whoever else can manufacture. Duty cycling, NCAP 5 stars, etc etc. I think the area that McLaren have done REALLY well is the CF manufacturing process. But that will get copied eventually. I can bet their competitors are already investigating how to.
Certain posters here seem to do 1 or 2 things. Either they mention the fact that people with an opposing view can't buy it anyway. OR they mention the wheel arch liners on F458 Clearly not what you'd want.
But no one is perfect.Some people need to learn some perspective.
Oops, sorry did that come over a bit wrong? GBWC said:
The only people wrong around here are the ones not giving Mclaren half the support 99.999% of Italians give Ferraris.
With all due respect Ferrari is a different proposition. 60+? years of heritage. Time will tell if McLaren Automotive will be seen the same in 50 years. They started out very well of course. But more relevantly, Italians bias is not a very British trait. We're not Latin, if anything we're closer to zee Germans and Dutchies. Realtively reserved nations. (stereotype that it is)
ANYWAY.
Back to the programme.
Does anyone else think it odd that their main building is a ying/yang symbol (very arty, very Ron) yet the new factory is a rectangle? I get the practical consideration (and the interchangeable aspect) but it's a bit generic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkh4qhE7nek&fea...
Edited by Rich_W on Wednesday 23 November 21:44
Rich_W said:
With all due respect Ferrari is a different proposition. 60+? years of heritage. Time will tell if McLaren Automotive will be seen the same in 50 years. They started out very well of course.
But more relevantly, Italians bias is not a very British trait. We're not Latin, if anything we're closer to zee Germans and Dutchies. Realtively reserved nations. (stereotype that it is)
ANYWAY.
Back to the programme.
Does anyone else think it odd that their main building is a ying/yang symbol (very arty, very Ron) yet the new factory is a rectangle? I get the practical consideration (and the interchangeable aspect) but it's a bit generic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkh4qhE7nek&fea...
Sorry, so your saying as we are a "reserved naton" (Ever been to wembley and seen a football match? Or England fans drowning out the Haka at a rugby game?) then we are unable to support Mclaren in the same away Italians support Ferrari? But more relevantly, Italians bias is not a very British trait. We're not Latin, if anything we're closer to zee Germans and Dutchies. Realtively reserved nations. (stereotype that it is)
ANYWAY.
Back to the programme.
Does anyone else think it odd that their main building is a ying/yang symbol (very arty, very Ron) yet the new factory is a rectangle? I get the practical consideration (and the interchangeable aspect) but it's a bit generic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkh4qhE7nek&fea...
Edited by Rich_W on Wednesday 23 November 21:44
Complete rubbish.
Megaflow said:
Indeed. McLaren Racing is only one part of the McLaren empire. As well as Automotive, Electronics and Applied Technologies, they also have Absolute Taste, which is the catering arm. I fairly sure there is another i have forgotten as well, I'm sure there are 6 units to McLaren.
McLaren:Racing = F1 Team
Automotive = Road cars
Applied Technologies = Biomechanics + other stuff
Electronics = F1 electroicsc + other stuff
Absolute Taste = catering + hopsitality
GT3 Racing = GT3 Racing team
JM said:
Megaflow said:
Indeed. McLaren Racing is only one part of the McLaren empire. As well as Automotive, Electronics and Applied Technologies, they also have Absolute Taste, which is the catering arm. I fairly sure there is another i have forgotten as well, I'm sure there are 6 units to McLaren.
McLaren:Racing = F1 Team
Automotive = Road cars
Applied Technologies = Biomechanics + other stuff
Electronics = F1 electroicsc + other stuff
Absolute Taste = catering + hopsitality
GT3 Racing = GT3 Racing team
GBWC said:
Sorry, so your saying as we are a "reserved naton" (Ever been to wembley and seen a football match? Or England fans drowning out the Haka at a rugby game?) then we are unable to support Mclaren in the same away Italians support Ferrari?
Complete rubbish.
No, it would be complete rubbish if we were talking about Football or Rugby. Complete rubbish.
Go to Silverstone for the F1 (or for the MotoGP) British motorsport fans don't religiously follow 1 team to the detriment of all others like he Italians support Ferrari. Partly because there are multiple UK based teams. But even in something like WSBK. British fans are amongst the most informed out there. And don't blindly follow the flag in who they support. Look at Haga, Schumacher, Rossi etc etc Not Brits but get a massive amount of support.
But Ferrari is a unique case. In Italy there is something about them EVERY day in the papers. So the passion for the brand is something that McLaren.Williams.Red Bull. whoever are unlikely to ever reproduce.
Rich_W said:
...So the passion for the brand is something that McLaren.Williams.Red Bull. whoever are unlikely to ever reproduce.
Not picking an argument but you must have forgotten Mansell Mania - a patriotic British driver in a British racing team. For those few years it was as mad as the support for the prancing donkeys.
Edited by RichB on Thursday 24th November 20:38
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff