Star Wars 7

[robemcdonald]

Guvernator said:

You know what my theory on the delay\re-writes are? I think fans etc pore over everything in minute detail and actually see plot holes and then come up with explanations that are more plausible to fill them then anything the scriptwriters come up with.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the scriptwriters didn't even think too deeply about why Rey so adept at using a light sabre with zero training and it was the fans who came up with bit about her having previous training which has been blocked explanation that is doing the rounds.

My worry is that doing late stage re-writes is usually not a good idea, especially to pander to fan feedback. Just seems like a very cynical move on Disney's part.

They have gone on record saying that the delay is to give popular new characters more screen time. I think this is actually a bad move and essentially the same mistake made with return of the jedi. Take Finn for example his job in the plot was basically to give Rey a kick up the arse to leave Jakuu and to give some inside intel on the star-killer base. He's done his job. it's likely that his original role in episode 8 would have been much smaller. Due to his popularity I'm betting his role will be substantially more important.
As the plot hole regarding Reys force usage, rise of the first order and other "plot holes" I don't see these being mistakes. I've now seen the film multiple times and a couple of things are clear.
1. The people behind this movie genuinely seem to has great care and affection for the series. This is clear from the attention and detail throughout.
2. following on from point 1. The film makers are fans and therefore know what fans are like and their expectations. I would bet that all the questions have answers that are plausible within the established framework of the star wars universe. Some like the First Orders power will probably be covered in expanded universe books etc (does anyone really want another star wars movie about politics? How well did that work in the prequels?) Issues like Reys force use will no doubt be covered in episodes 8 & 9.

[JungleJim]

mattmurdock said:

I think the problem is that they did not provide enough information in the film itself on the political situation.

Further background (in the novelization and other materials) shows that the New Republic continued to fight a war with the bulk of the old Empire until they reached an truce. The more radical bit of the old Empire became the First Order and absconded with a lot of the military hardware, but the idealists in the New Republic underestimated their threat. Mon Mothma wanted more of a government of the people, and so the Republic capital was moved from world to world rather than based on Coruscant, and the military was fundamentally disbanded so the people could 'trust' the government more than they ever trusted the Empire. Over the next 30 years, they became a bit soft whilst the First Order kept building military power (ala the Nazis).

Leia disagreed with Mon Mothma, and with other sympathisers in the Republic formed the Resistance, essentially a small guerilla force shadow funded by the Republic to keep an eye on and counter the First Order. The X-Wings belonged to them, not to the Republic.

So the First Order is not really a small rebellion, in reality it is more that the Resistance is the small rebellion (again!).

I watched it the other day and assumed (not being a major follower of star wars) that the First Order were just a re-branded Empire, which is why the soldiers looked virtually the same, flew the same spaceships etc.

And Rey is clearly Luke Skywalkers kid.

[Mr Whippy]

mattmurdock said:

Mr Whippy said:

You can suspend belief only so far, and this film required FARRR too much.

That Death Star 3, made by 'The First Order', which was in essence a small uprising to the New Republic, just 25-30 years after the Rebellion crushed the Empire (Emporer and Vader did the trick)

The Death Star 1 and Death Star 2, made by the full might of the galactic empire over years, with years of planning. And something much bigger and more powerful is made by a small rebellion (what The First Order really are FFS!) of followers of the dark side in a similar time-frame. Hmmmmm.


Then when the Republic do attack, they have no army, just a few X-wings? Surely they'd have a small fraction of the chunk of the forces used through to the end of SW VI. Those armies were loyal to the Republic until Palpatine took over. Why would such vast forces not just fall back under the Republic's control? I agree they'd probably disband a huge amount, but all of them? Keeping just a few old X-wings?

Even back in the EP1 there is a huge Trade Federation and significant sized per-planet armies to call upon. Cripes, the entire Clone Armies are required just to fight the Trade Federation.
It's really REALLY hard to believe the galaxy would shrink so much after SW VI, and no one would own spaceships with guns any more... and the only people who do, are the leaders of a massive Republic with 20 X-wings, and the rebellious First Order have just a few ships too, but also one PLANET SIZED weapon that can destroy entire solar systems with one shot, that no one cares about until it's already blown everything up!


They say never go full retard, but SW VII went full retard with it's story line.

The overly snooty British accents on the First Order minions was the perfect icing on the cake



If the story made sense I'd be happier, the film in isolation was kinda ok, but as a continuation from SDW VI it was completely dire!

I think the problem is that they did not provide enough information in the film itself on the political situation.

Further background (in the novelization and other materials) shows that the New Republic continued to fight a war with the bulk of the old Empire until they reached an truce. The more radical bit of the old Empire became the First Order and absconded with a lot of the military hardware, but the idealists in the New Republic underestimated their threat. Mon Mothma wanted more of a government of the people, and so the Republic capital was moved from world to world rather than based on Coruscant, and the military was fundamentally disbanded so the people could 'trust' the government more than they ever trusted the Empire. Over the next 30 years, they became a bit soft whilst the First Order kept building military power (ala the Nazis).

Leia disagreed with Mon Mothma, and with other sympathisers in the Republic formed the Resistance, essentially a small guerilla force shadow funded by the Republic to keep an eye on and counter the First Order. The X-Wings belonged to them, not to the Republic.

So the First Order is not really a small rebellion, in reality it is more that the Resistance is the small rebellion (again!).

Kinda plausible maybe.

But what did the Republic leadership think leaving the 'first order' with a huge military just kicking around and being answerable to probably dark forces.

And then building a huge system destroying weapon, which is then used on them.

I can't believe that the Republic were so dumb that they didn't see themselves as a target from the First Order. Given how inept the First Order were in doing anything to stop the small rebellion teams, despite their now apparent HUGE resources, then I'd imagine they're not amazing at hiding their true intentions of a solar system destroying weapon, nor keeping it secret.


The whole thing just doesn't stack up.


Unless of course the Republic are literally just wanting to be mastered over by the First Order (by letting them exist), in which case, why does the First Order seem so intent on blowing the Republic and an entire systems worth of people up?

Isn't it better to just do a soft take-over, ala Palpatine in Ep 1/2/3?

Why do the First Order want to kill billions of people and destroy entire systems if the populace and government are that soft to them to begin with?


Even in EP IV and VI the Death Star is used more as a weapon of fear to keep people under control. But if the Republic don't need to be scared to be controlled, then?



So yeah, still confused at all the motives of everyone.


No doubt things are not made clear because Disney are worried about actually making solid decisions now that block them later. Oh joy, just making it up as they go along... just like everything these days.
Too scared to round anything off in case it costs them cash later when they realise they could make *just one more*

[Disastrous]

Mr Whippy said:

Kinda plausible maybe.

But what did the Republic leadership think leaving the 'first order' with a huge military just kicking around and being answerable to probably dark forces.

And then building a huge system destroying weapon, which is then used on them.

I can't believe that the Republic were so dumb that they didn't see themselves as a target from the First Order. Given how inept the First Order were in doing anything to stop the small rebellion teams, despite their now apparent HUGE resources, then I'd imagine they're not amazing at hiding their true intentions of a solar system destroying weapon, nor keeping it secret.


The whole thing just doesn't stack up.


Unless of course the Republic are literally just wanting to be mastered over by the First Order (by letting them exist), in which case, why does the First Order seem so intent on blowing the Republic and an entire systems worth of people up?

Isn't it better to just do a soft take-over, ala Palpatine in Ep 1/2/3?

Why do the First Order want to kill billions of people and destroy entire systems if the populace and government are that soft to them to begin with?


Even in EP IV and VI the Death Star is used more as a weapon of fear to keep people under control. But if the Republic don't need to be scared to be controlled, then?



So yeah, still confused at all the motives of everyone.


No doubt things are not made clear because Disney are worried about actually making solid decisions now that block them later. Oh joy, just making it up as they go along... just like everything these days.
Too scared to round anything off in case it costs them cash later when they realise they could make *just one more*

It's just a film!

[toppstuff]

I am of an age where I fell in love with the original movies. But age puts a perspective on things I guess.

Some of you chaps take this way too seriously.

I think the new film was pretty much perfect for its intended purpose. It had to reboot the franchise, appeal to kids as well as grown ups, and make money. A lot of money.

Job done in all respects IMO.

I went there willing to be entertained and not think about things too much. It was fun. It rattled along at a decent pace, did not sag in the middle like so many films do, and set us up nicely for the next one.

I liked it a lot.

[Mr Whippy]

Disastrous said:

Mr Whippy said:

Kinda plausible maybe.

But what did the Republic leadership think leaving the 'first order' with a huge military just kicking around and being answerable to probably dark forces.

And then building a huge system destroying weapon, which is then used on them.

I can't believe that the Republic were so dumb that they didn't see themselves as a target from the First Order. Given how inept the First Order were in doing anything to stop the small rebellion teams, despite their now apparent HUGE resources, then I'd imagine they're not amazing at hiding their true intentions of a solar system destroying weapon, nor keeping it secret.


The whole thing just doesn't stack up.


Unless of course the Republic are literally just wanting to be mastered over by the First Order (by letting them exist), in which case, why does the First Order seem so intent on blowing the Republic and an entire systems worth of people up?

Isn't it better to just do a soft take-over, ala Palpatine in Ep 1/2/3?

Why do the First Order want to kill billions of people and destroy entire systems if the populace and government are that soft to them to begin with?


Even in EP IV and VI the Death Star is used more as a weapon of fear to keep people under control. But if the Republic don't need to be scared to be controlled, then?



So yeah, still confused at all the motives of everyone.


No doubt things are not made clear because Disney are worried about actually making solid decisions now that block them later. Oh joy, just making it up as they go along... just like everything these days.
Too scared to round anything off in case it costs them cash later when they realise they could make *just one more*

It's just a film!

A film that like so many sets out huge expectations.

When everyone was saying it was amazing, I expected IV V VI levels of goodness, not just I II III levels of iffyness.


It's just a film yes, but it's been sold as soooo much more.


The fact it can't even do an original story is bad. But that it copied an original story but managed to ADD plot holes is worse.

Dave

[Halb]

Guvernator said:

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the scriptwriters didn't even think too deeply about why Rey so adept at using a light sabre with zero training and it was the fans who came up with bit about her having previous training which has been blocked explanation that is doing the rounds.

Read the book.

[Halb]

Mr Whippy said:

But what did the Republic leadership think leaving the 'first order' with a huge military just kicking around and being answerable to probably dark forces.
And then building a huge system destroying weapon, which is then used on them.
I can't believe that the Republic were so dumb that they didn't see themselves as a target from the First Order. Given how inept the First Order were in doing anything to stop the small rebellion teams, despite their now apparent HUGE resources, then I'd imagine they're not amazing at hiding their true intentions of a solar system destroying weapon, nor keeping it secret.
The whole thing just doesn't stack up.
Unless of course the Republic are literally just wanting to be mastered over by the First Order (by letting them exist), in which case, why does the First Order seem so intent on blowing the Republic and an entire systems worth of people up?
Isn't it better to just do a soft take-over, ala Palpatine in Ep 1/2/3?
Why do the First Order want to kill billions of people and destroy entire systems if the populace and government are that soft to them to begin with?
Even in EP IV and VI the Death Star is used more as a weapon of fear to keep people under control. But if the Republic don't need to be scared to be controlled, then?
So yeah, still confused at all the motives of everyone.

It makes sense. The Empire split and it splintered. A time of upheaval. When the Roman empire splintered it wasn't as if Rome could just slap Constantinople down, it wasn't possible.
One of the joys of being older and watching the films is seeing the sense behind little incidental lines that don't mean much to the plot (seemingly), like the Death Star being the final stone in place so the Emperor can dissolve the senate.
'But will the Emperor keep control without the bureaucracy?!'
The people who wrote it were smart.

[DMN]

Mr Whippy said:

mattmurdock said:

Mr Whippy said:

You can suspend belief only so far, and this film required FARRR too much.

That Death Star 3, made by 'The First Order', which was in essence a small uprising to the New Republic, just 25-30 years after the Rebellion crushed the Empire (Emporer and Vader did the trick)

The Death Star 1 and Death Star 2, made by the full might of the galactic empire over years, with years of planning. And something much bigger and more powerful is made by a small rebellion (what The First Order really are FFS!) of followers of the dark side in a similar time-frame. Hmmmmm.


Then when the Republic do attack, they have no army, just a few X-wings? Surely they'd have a small fraction of the chunk of the forces used through to the end of SW VI. Those armies were loyal to the Republic until Palpatine took over. Why would such vast forces not just fall back under the Republic's control? I agree they'd probably disband a huge amount, but all of them? Keeping just a few old X-wings?

Even back in the EP1 there is a huge Trade Federation and significant sized per-planet armies to call upon. Cripes, the entire Clone Armies are required just to fight the Trade Federation.
It's really REALLY hard to believe the galaxy would shrink so much after SW VI, and no one would own spaceships with guns any more... and the only people who do, are the leaders of a massive Republic with 20 X-wings, and the rebellious First Order have just a few ships too, but also one PLANET SIZED weapon that can destroy entire solar systems with one shot, that no one cares about until it's already blown everything up!


They say never go full retard, but SW VII went full retard with it's story line.

The overly snooty British accents on the First Order minions was the perfect icing on the cake



If the story made sense I'd be happier, the film in isolation was kinda ok, but as a continuation from SDW VI it was completely dire!

I think the problem is that they did not provide enough information in the film itself on the political situation.

Further background (in the novelization and other materials) shows that the New Republic continued to fight a war with the bulk of the old Empire until they reached an truce. The more radical bit of the old Empire became the First Order and absconded with a lot of the military hardware, but the idealists in the New Republic underestimated their threat. Mon Mothma wanted more of a government of the people, and so the Republic capital was moved from world to world rather than based on Coruscant, and the military was fundamentally disbanded so the people could 'trust' the government more than they ever trusted the Empire. Over the next 30 years, they became a bit soft whilst the First Order kept building military power (ala the Nazis).

Leia disagreed with Mon Mothma, and with other sympathisers in the Republic formed the Resistance, essentially a small guerilla force shadow funded by the Republic to keep an eye on and counter the First Order. The X-Wings belonged to them, not to the Republic.

So the First Order is not really a small rebellion, in reality it is more that the Resistance is the small rebellion (again!).

Kinda plausible maybe.

But what did the Republic leadership think leaving the 'first order' with a huge military just kicking around and being answerable to probably dark forces.

And then building a huge system destroying weapon, which is then used on them.

I can't believe that the Republic were so dumb that they didn't see themselves as a target from the First Order. Given how inept the First Order were in doing anything to stop the small rebellion teams, despite their now apparent HUGE resources, then I'd imagine they're not amazing at hiding their true intentions of a solar system destroying weapon, nor keeping it secret.


The whole thing just doesn't stack up.


Unless of course the Republic are literally just wanting to be mastered over by the First Order (by letting them exist), in which case, why does the First Order seem so intent on blowing the Republic and an entire systems worth of people up?

Isn't it better to just do a soft take-over, ala Palpatine in Ep 1/2/3?

Why do the First Order want to kill billions of people and destroy entire systems if the populace and government are that soft to them to begin with?


Even in EP IV and VI the Death Star is used more as a weapon of fear to keep people under control. But if the Republic don't need to be scared to be controlled, then?



So yeah, still confused at all the motives of everyone.


No doubt things are not made clear because Disney are worried about actually making solid decisions now that block them later. Oh joy, just making it up as they go along... just like everything these days.
Too scared to round anything off in case it costs them cash later when they realise they could make *just one more*

I had the exact same missgivings untill I read up on Wookiepeadia. I'm stuill not 100%, but feel a bit more comfortable about what they did and how/why they did it.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance

[Mr Whippy]

Halb said:

Mr Whippy said:

But what did the Republic leadership think leaving the 'first order' with a huge military just kicking around and being answerable to probably dark forces.
And then building a huge system destroying weapon, which is then used on them.
I can't believe that the Republic were so dumb that they didn't see themselves as a target from the First Order. Given how inept the First Order were in doing anything to stop the small rebellion teams, despite their now apparent HUGE resources, then I'd imagine they're not amazing at hiding their true intentions of a solar system destroying weapon, nor keeping it secret.
The whole thing just doesn't stack up.
Unless of course the Republic are literally just wanting to be mastered over by the First Order (by letting them exist), in which case, why does the First Order seem so intent on blowing the Republic and an entire systems worth of people up?
Isn't it better to just do a soft take-over, ala Palpatine in Ep 1/2/3?
Why do the First Order want to kill billions of people and destroy entire systems if the populace and government are that soft to them to begin with?
Even in EP IV and VI the Death Star is used more as a weapon of fear to keep people under control. But if the Republic don't need to be scared to be controlled, then?
So yeah, still confused at all the motives of everyone.

It makes sense. The Empire split and it splintered. A time of upheaval. When the Roman empire splintered it wasn't as if Rome could just slap Constantinople down, it wasn't possible.
One of the joys of being older and watching the films is seeing the sense behind little incidental lines that don't mean much to the plot (seemingly), like the Death Star being the final stone in place so the Emperor can dissolve the senate.
'But will the Emperor keep control without the bureaucracy?!'
The people who wrote it were smart.

Yes the original films laid this subtle background story out nicely so you got a feeling of the macro back story. And quite nicely, SW III nicely led into SW IV and SW IV then made even MORE sense.

But in the new films there was little evidence of anything from SW VI having actually mattered that much.

And yes Rome splintered after hundreds of years. Splintering makes sense. But in SW, Palpatine was only emporer for a short time by all accounts.

Yes we can explain it away, but it's pretty crap that we have to.

A few extra scenes of dialog could have fleshed these gaps out, but instead we get stupid parping music and 'reveals' of R2D2... jeez the cringe level was beyond Jar Jar at that point!

[Halb]

Mr Whippy said:

But in the new films there was little evidence of anything from SW VI having actually mattered that much.
And yes Rome splintered after hundreds of years. Splintering makes sense. But in SW, Palpatine was only emporer for a short time by all accounts.
Yes we can explain it away, but it's pretty crap that we have to.
A few extra scenes of dialog could have fleshed these gaps out, but instead we get stupid parping music and 'reveals' of R2D2... jeez the cringe level was beyond Jar Jar at that point!

Well all we had in Jedi was the death of the Emperor, I can imagine what happened next was bad...I happen to have the book, Aftermath, that deals with what happens next, beside me, but I haven't started it yet.
The senate was only dissolved for a few years, the Emperor was Emps for a bit, but he had effectively been ruling the Republic as de facto Emps for a considerable amount of time. From the small chat in SW I got the impression there was sufficient Governors in the republic/EMpire to attempt seceding.

[Ali_T]

Aftermath is a trilogy and the first book only gives small clues as to what happens. It's a decent Star Wars novel but it won't give as much background as you'd hope.

[Disastrous]

Mr Whippy said:

A film that like so many sets out huge expectations.

When everyone was saying it was amazing, I expected IV V VI levels of goodness, not just I II III levels of iffyness.


It's just a film yes, but it's been sold as soooo much more.


The fact it can't even do an original story is bad. But that it copied an original story but managed to ADD plot holes is worse.

Dave

My post was a bit flippant but I think this slavish attention to detail and backstory is exactly what caused the prequels to lose their way so badly, and ultimately what kills a film series like Star Wars.

The absolutely best thing about Star Wars always has been the characters and the story. It's not the universe, or the detail, or the spaceships or the lightsaber fights. It's about good and evil with a love story thrown in and it's down to the characters to sell that story.

The new film has a new cast of likeable people that we want to win. I honestly couldn't care less how the story got from C to D, (as long as it's vaguely sane) and I'm happy for them to skip over logistical difficulties to make a better story.

As a parallel, remember how good Alien and Aliens were? And then there was progressively more pressure to build a coherent backstory to try and explain away a film that was never about a coherent backstory. It was about a cosmic horror that can't be stopped. Adding all the 'explanation' just ruins it.

[Mr Whippy]

Disastrous said:

Mr Whippy said:

A film that like so many sets out huge expectations.

When everyone was saying it was amazing, I expected IV V VI levels of goodness, not just I II III levels of iffyness.


It's just a film yes, but it's been sold as soooo much more.


The fact it can't even do an original story is bad. But that it copied an original story but managed to ADD plot holes is worse.

Dave

My post was a bit flippant but I think this slavish attention to detail and backstory is exactly what caused the prequels to lose their way so badly, and ultimately what kills a film series like Star Wars.

The absolutely best thing about Star Wars always has been the characters and the story. It's not the universe, or the detail, or the spaceships or the lightsaber fights. It's about good and evil with a love story thrown in and it's down to the characters to sell that story.

The new film has a new cast of likeable people that we want to win. I honestly couldn't care less how the story got from C to D, (as long as it's vaguely sane) and I'm happy for them to skip over logistical difficulties to make a better story.

As a parallel, remember how good Alien and Aliens were? And then there was progressively more pressure to build a coherent backstory to try and explain away a film that was never about a coherent backstory. It was about a cosmic horror that can't be stopped. Adding all the 'explanation' just ruins it.

I agree with all that.

But then why hold on so rigidly to the original plot ideas.

R2D2, The Millenium Falcon, X Wings, Tie Fighters, 'Death Stars'

A young Jedi who doesn't know it, on a desert planet, who finds a robot with a map. An old Jedi who is to be found who will teach the young Jedi to be a master in the second film.



I'd actually have welcomed something new but it's just not. While it's adhering to so much of the 'past' then you draw parallels or continuations from it.



My main bugbear is...

Why does The First Order destroy so many planets if those planets don't even want to defend themselves, and are otherwise ripe for being controlled by the rising power of The First Order, led by a dark force person (again)?

Understanding the motives of the main players in films is important, and I can't see why destroying handfuls of planets that pose no risk or threat is a goal they have. Surely dictators need people to dictate to?

Dave

[Disastrous]

I guess for me it's 'because they're evil' and I don't need to think about it more than that (provided the characters convince me they are evil, that is).

I suspect it just didn't work for you and that's why you're noticing this stuff. It's a sure sign for me that if I'm getting annoyed by stuff like that, then the film has failed to draw me in and suspend my disbelief. Which is a totally legitimate response, as I'll forgive a film that captures me properly all manner of sins, but it's more about me recognising that my problem isn't actually with the plot holes but with the film itself.

Just a thought...?

[Halb]

Disastrous said:

As a parallel, remember how good Alien and Aliens were? And then there was progressively more pressure to build a coherent backstory to try and explain away a film that was never about a coherent backstory. It was about a cosmic horror that can't be stopped. Adding all the 'explanation' just ruins it.

I think there is something to that. The trouble with that universe is that it was changed everytime a new set of writers came along, and it went downhill with each amendment. A sad case of success.

Mr Whippy said:

Why does The First Order destroy so many planets if those planets don't even want to defend themselves, and are otherwise ripe for being controlled by the rising power of The First Order, led by a dark force person (again)?

They destroyed the Republic's government.

[Disastrous]

Halb said:

Disastrous said:

As a parallel, remember how good Alien and Aliens were? And then there was progressively more pressure to build a coherent backstory to try and explain away a film that was never about a coherent backstory. It was about a cosmic horror that can't be stopped. Adding all the 'explanation' just ruins it.

I think there is something to that. The trouble with that universe is that it was changed everytime a new set of writers came along, and it went downhill with each amendment. A sad case of success.

Same thing happened to Terminator, IMO.

Of course it can't ever make sense - you're talking about sending a sentient robot back in time to create all sorts of paradoxes. Trying to build a coherent timeline around when Skynet became sentient, how the war developed is just silly as you'll run into all sorts of problems explaining it and end up tripping over yourself.

I think T2 handled it brilliantly with the future bit at the start which was just enough to show you that it had all gone REALLY bad in the future, and that there was this giant war with machines and in fact, let's just leave it at that. 3 onwards just became ridiculous (I've not even bothered with the most recent one).

[Guvernator]

Halb said:

Guvernator said:

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the scriptwriters didn't even think too deeply about why Rey so adept at using a light sabre with zero training and it was the fans who came up with bit about her having previous training which has been blocked explanation that is doing the rounds.

Read the book.

Oh I will as soon as I get the time...BUT you could argue that you shouldn't need to read the book to make sense of key plot points. It wouldn't have taken much to make some things a bit clearer, I wonder if some of this stuff ended up on the cutting room floor?

[Mr Whippy]

Halb said:

Disastrous said:

As a parallel, remember how good Alien and Aliens were? And then there was progressively more pressure to build a coherent backstory to try and explain away a film that was never about a coherent backstory. It was about a cosmic horror that can't be stopped. Adding all the 'explanation' just ruins it.

I think there is something to that. The trouble with that universe is that it was changed everytime a new set of writers came along, and it went downhill with each amendment. A sad case of success.

Mr Whippy said:

Why does The First Order destroy so many planets if those planets don't even want to defend themselves, and are otherwise ripe for being controlled by the rising power of The First Order, led by a dark force person (again)?

They destroyed the Republic's government.

They destroyed about 5 or 6 planets all in one shot from what I could see.

If those planets are just the government, then jeez it was lightly defended by about 20 X-wings, supported via some back-channels.

It just doesn't make sense. If the First Order were such a threat then the Republic wouldn't just sit there and get destroyed.

The fact they were so meek left them ripe to be invaded and taken over with near zero force. So why didn't they?


'They're evil' is a great motive I suppose... but they didn't seem evil to me, they seemed cunning and with the big speech before attacking the Republic, appeared to be totalitarian dictators, not just genocidal maniacs on a solar system scale.


It's just not clear to me what actually happened there.


I think they just wanted to make a huge planet sized weapon to have to blow up as a plot point to the film. We've seen one planet get blown up, so the next best thing is a handful of planets.

How can we make this fit in? Erm?



Why didn't they just fly their ship to the Republic, walk in, sit down in the seat of power, and take over?

They had no armed forces, and the 'rebellion' was a handful of X-wings. Oh noes!


It just makes no sense.

If Palpatine had just blown up all the planets with Death Star 1 there would be no Empire to lord it over. UNLESS, these new guys just want to blow everything up... but that isn't made clear.

[Halb]

We never saw the Republic's government, we saw where the resistance had set up a temporary base.
In a coup d'etat, people can get uppity, the successful ones get by by revealing a fait accompli to the masses.
Nothing can defend against a hyperspace weapon. We never got to see what forces the Republic had.