Discussion
Fool of a guvenrator!!!
Never knew why Maul was so well liked, probably because he was the only half decent thing in the whole mess.
Boba Fett was cool, he didn't try. He did back chat Vader, no-one else did. There's a good vid somewhere saying why Fett is so great. The shakey actor that played him was a good one...
And the raspy original voice.
Never knew why Maul was so well liked, probably because he was the only half decent thing in the whole mess.
Boba Fett was cool, he didn't try. He did back chat Vader, no-one else did. There's a good vid somewhere saying why Fett is so great. The shakey actor that played him was a good one...
And the raspy original voice.Halb said:
Fool of a guvenrator!!!
Never knew why Maul was so well liked, probably because he was the only half decent thing in the whole mess.
Boba Fett was cool, he didn't try. He did back chat Vader, no-one else did. There's a good vid somewhere saying why Fett is so great. The shakey actor that played him was a good one... And the raspy original voice.
Lol, probably right to a point about Maul. He is the best of a bad bunch. He does exude Menace and stole every scene he was in IMO (again not that hard to do considering the poor quality of everyone else)Never knew why Maul was so well liked, probably because he was the only half decent thing in the whole mess.
Boba Fett was cool, he didn't try. He did back chat Vader, no-one else did. There's a good vid somewhere saying why Fett is so great. The shakey actor that played him was a good one...
And the raspy original voice.Still not gonna agree on Fett though. About 5 minutes total screen time in both movies and he spends most of that standing around TRYING to look cool, pushing a carbon coffin around or getting eaten. The cult that seems to have sprang up around him seems to be based entirely on him asking Vader about his money in a slightly snooty tone and not actually being in the movie that much. I seem to also remember something about the rarity of the Fett toy having something to do with it too. So in a twist of fandom logic, a character that wasn't actually that important, suddenly gains unmerited significance.
Lucas then realises Fett is popular for some bizarre reason so being the w
e that he is, ret-conns the whole Jango Fett clone donor crap into the prequels to cash in. Sorry, just not buying it.For a recent example of this phenomena, a similar "cult" now seems to be growing arounf the baton twirling Storm Trooper who handed Finn his ar*e in TFA. I really don't get fanboy logic sometimes.
Guvernator said:
Lol, probably right to a point about Maul. He is the best of a bad bunch. He does exude Menace and stole every scene he was in IMO (again not that hard to do considering the poor quality of everyone else)
Still not gonna agree on Fett though. About 5 minutes total screen time in both movies and he spends most of that standing around TRYING to look cool, pushing a carbon coffin around or getting eaten. The cult that seems to have sprang up around him seems to be based entirely on him asking Vader about his money in a slightly snooty tone and not actually being in the movie that much. I seem to also remember something about the rarity of the Fett toy having something to do with it too. So in a twist of fandom logic, a character that wasn't actually that important, suddenly gains unmerited significance.
Lucas then realises Fett is popular for some bizarre reason so being the we that he is, ret-conns the whole Jango Fett clone donor crap into the prequels to cash in. Sorry, just not buying it.
For a recent example of this phenomena, a similar "cult" now seems to be growing arounf the baton twirling Storm Trooper who handed Finn his ar*e in TFA. I really don't get fanboy logic sometimes.
Agree with you - Fett did bugger all, and didn't even seem that good. Still not gonna agree on Fett though. About 5 minutes total screen time in both movies and he spends most of that standing around TRYING to look cool, pushing a carbon coffin around or getting eaten. The cult that seems to have sprang up around him seems to be based entirely on him asking Vader about his money in a slightly snooty tone and not actually being in the movie that much. I seem to also remember something about the rarity of the Fett toy having something to do with it too. So in a twist of fandom logic, a character that wasn't actually that important, suddenly gains unmerited significance.
Lucas then realises Fett is popular for some bizarre reason so being the w
e that he is, ret-conns the whole Jango Fett clone donor crap into the prequels to cash in. Sorry, just not buying it.For a recent example of this phenomena, a similar "cult" now seems to be growing arounf the baton twirling Storm Trooper who handed Finn his ar*e in TFA. I really don't get fanboy logic sometimes.
Maul on the other hand benefitted from casting a bloke who was the utter daddy at what he did - which translated exceptionally well on screen. No gimmicks, no crap, just a bloody brilliant martial artist...
Plus, that skintone! Pure evil.
Fett did bugger all? The entire second half of the film is all down to him!
Boba Fett - You Think You Know Movies?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guJP3UxnWwU
Edited by Halb on Thursday 28th April 15:38
Guvernator said:
Halb said:
Fool of a guvenrator!!!
Never knew why Maul was so well liked, probably because he was the only half decent thing in the whole mess.
Boba Fett was cool, he didn't try. He did back chat Vader, no-one else did. There's a good vid somewhere saying why Fett is so great. The shakey actor that played him was a good one... And the raspy original voice.
Lol, probably right to a point about Maul. He is the best of a bad bunch. He does exude Menace and stole every scene he was in IMO (again not that hard to do considering the poor quality of everyone else)Never knew why Maul was so well liked, probably because he was the only half decent thing in the whole mess.
Boba Fett was cool, he didn't try. He did back chat Vader, no-one else did. There's a good vid somewhere saying why Fett is so great. The shakey actor that played him was a good one...
And the raspy original voice.Still not gonna agree on Fett though. About 5 minutes total screen time in both movies and he spends most of that standing around TRYING to look cool, pushing a carbon coffin around or getting eaten. The cult that seems to have sprang up around him seems to be based entirely on him asking Vader about his money in a slightly snooty tone and not actually being in the movie that much. I seem to also remember something about the rarity of the Fett toy having something to do with it too. So in a twist of fandom logic, a character that wasn't actually that important, suddenly gains unmerited significance.
Lucas then realises Fett is popular for some bizarre reason so being the w
e that he is, ret-conns the whole Jango Fett clone donor crap into the prequels to cash in. Sorry, just not buying it.For a recent example of this phenomena, a similar "cult" now seems to be growing arounf the baton twirling Storm Trooper who handed Finn his ar*e in TFA. I really don't get fanboy logic sometimes.
He probably made a different toy back in the 80s aside all the goodies and 'generic' white armour baddies, but that is about it.
Halb said:
Fett did bugger all? The entire second half of the film is all down to him!
Boba Fett - You Think You Know Movies?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guJP3UxnWwU
He triggers a lot, but doesn't really do much to achieve it. As opposed to killing a jedi master, and generally being a badass.Boba Fett - You Think You Know Movies?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guJP3UxnWwU
Edited by Halb on Thursday 28th April 15:38
Sway said:
He triggers a lot, but doesn't really do much to achieve it. As opposed to killing a jedi master, and generally being a badass.
THat is what helps make him so cool, to achieve so much, by doing so little, zen master!I think this might be the article I read that made me consider how great Fett actually is.
https://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2016/01/0...
article said:
Like I said above, the reason Boba Fett became such a beloved character was his presentation. It was a bit of a masterclass in how to write and present secondary characters. Several characters (characters we already love and/or respect) treat Boba Fett like he’s very serious business. That’s crucial. No one smack-talks him. Similarly, he directly affects the movie’s plot in brief but significant ways, and in ways no one else has the skills to do. That matters just as much.
That doesn’t sound like much, really. And yet, it’s everything. This is some core stuff to how to write believable characters. How other characters relate and react to them. What influence they have on the events of the plot. Super-crucial stuff that informs the reader and viewer about that character’s place in the story – and within the setting itself.
Boba Fett (who, as so many memes are saying “never did anything”) was the exact opposite of that. Look at how he affects the plot, and how other characters react to him. Look at how good he was at his job (and his role in the story). He does a bunch of things – some subtle, some off-screen and inferred, and some on-screen and obvious – that just bleed character.
Look at how those elements come together to show why he was so beloved:
#This is a character that Darth Vader – Darth fking Vader – has to warn about not being too violent. Vader wants the Falcon’s crew alive, and he singles out Boba Fett from all the bounty hunters, to say the classic line: “No disintegrations.” The fact Fett was already there with the other bounty hunters ready to be hired by the Empire’s big cheese to chase some of its most important prey, well, that says a lot. But this is the one guy out of all those scum with the darkest reputation, the one that gets singled out. This is a man that Darth Vader (who, lets remember, everyone is terrified of) has to tell to calm the fk down. That establishes character.
ked. “I had no choice,” Lando says as he’s selling Han and Leia out, right to their faces. “They arrived right before you did.” Vader performs his rather cool dinner conversation “We would be honoured if you would join us…” and who should walk out from stage right? Why, that would be Boba Fett. The man who led Darth Vader to the rebels. The man who told Vader not only where the rebels were going, but he worked it out before Han and Leia arrived, letting the Empire get the drop on our beloved heroes. In case it needs spelling out again, this is called Being Good At One’s Job, as well as Affecting The Plot. Fett is the architect of why the protagonists are fked in the darkest part of the second act of the trilogy.
# As already mentioned, part of what makes Boba Fett work in how he’s presented is in how other characters react to him. It establishes his presence in the story and place in the character hierarchy, so to speak. On Bespin, there are two characters that argue with Darth Vader. One of them is Lando Calrissian. Lando is frustrated by being humiliated and deceived by Vader (whom he calls “Lord Vader” with respect at all times.) Vader couldn’t care less. “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it further.” The other is Boba Fett. Vader gives Fett exactly what he wants. “You may take Captain Solo to Jabba the Hutt after I have Skywalker.” Fett argues back: “He’s no good to me dead.” Vader assures him that Solo won’t be permanently damaged. When it looks like Han might not survive the carbonite freezing process, Fett again calmly challenges Vader about it – and Vader assures him “The Empire will compensate you if he dies.” The difference in how these two characters treat Vader, and are treated by Vader, is immense.
Brilliant writing makes brilliant characters. Hope we get similar in the future.That doesn’t sound like much, really. And yet, it’s everything. This is some core stuff to how to write believable characters. How other characters relate and react to them. What influence they have on the events of the plot. Super-crucial stuff that informs the reader and viewer about that character’s place in the story – and within the setting itself.
Boba Fett (who, as so many memes are saying “never did anything”) was the exact opposite of that. Look at how he affects the plot, and how other characters react to him. Look at how good he was at his job (and his role in the story). He does a bunch of things – some subtle, some off-screen and inferred, and some on-screen and obvious – that just bleed character.
Look at how those elements come together to show why he was so beloved:
#This is a character that Darth Vader – Darth f
king Vader – has to warn about not being too violent. Vader wants the Falcon’s crew alive, and he singles out Boba Fett from all the bounty hunters, to say the classic line: “No disintegrations.” The fact Fett was already there with the other bounty hunters ready to be hired by the Empire’s big cheese to chase some of its most important prey, well, that says a lot. But this is the one guy out of all those scum with the darkest reputation, the one that gets singled out. This is a man that Darth Vader (who, lets remember, everyone is terrified of) has to tell to calm the fk down. That establishes character.- When the Empire loses track of the Millennium Falcon, and when Han Solo has just pulled off his awesome trick that even Princess Leia honestly compliments (after spending the whole movie teasingly mocking him), Boba Fett is the one to outfox them. The Falcon drifts away in the Star Destroyer’s garbage… then flies away unseen. Except for the fact that Boba Fett played the same trick, and follows the rebels. That’s how fking good at his job he was. Han Solo pulled one of his coolest tricks, and Boba Fett was waiting for it.
ked. “I had no choice,” Lando says as he’s selling Han and Leia out, right to their faces. “They arrived right before you did.” Vader performs his rather cool dinner conversation “We would be honoured if you would join us…” and who should walk out from stage right? Why, that would be Boba Fett. The man who led Darth Vader to the rebels. The man who told Vader not only where the rebels were going, but he worked it out before Han and Leia arrived, letting the Empire get the drop on our beloved heroes. In case it needs spelling out again, this is called Being Good At One’s Job, as well as Affecting The Plot. Fett is the architect of why the protagonists are fked in the darkest part of the second act of the trilogy.# As already mentioned, part of what makes Boba Fett work in how he’s presented is in how other characters react to him. It establishes his presence in the story and place in the character hierarchy, so to speak. On Bespin, there are two characters that argue with Darth Vader. One of them is Lando Calrissian. Lando is frustrated by being humiliated and deceived by Vader (whom he calls “Lord Vader” with respect at all times.) Vader couldn’t care less. “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it further.” The other is Boba Fett. Vader gives Fett exactly what he wants. “You may take Captain Solo to Jabba the Hutt after I have Skywalker.” Fett argues back: “He’s no good to me dead.” Vader assures him that Solo won’t be permanently damaged. When it looks like Han might not survive the carbonite freezing process, Fett again calmly challenges Vader about it – and Vader assures him “The Empire will compensate you if he dies.” The difference in how these two characters treat Vader, and are treated by Vader, is immense.
- When Boba Fett is leading Han Solo, in carbonite, towards Slave I, Luke Skywalker is sneaking through the hallways of Cloud City, ready to undertake a rescue. There’s a moment when you see Luke watching Fett, several Cloud City staff, and a few stormtroopers walk past – and (still in hiding) Luke quietly unholsters his pistol. Boba Fett turns his fking head at the sound. Fett keeps walking and Luke thinks he’s undetected. He sneaks up a little further once the parade has gone by, and hushes R2 who’s being a jerk. Just when Luke’s peeking around the corner again and everything’s silent, Boba Fett springs back and starts blasting. He knew Luke was there. He doesn’t want to kill Skywalker – he doesn’t give a st. He’s bailing now he’s got what he came for. But Luke’s stealthed around just fine so far, until Boba Fett opens up on him.
- And then, of course, there’s this classic moment. Boba Fett, whose patience for bullst is so monumentally thin, that when Chewbacca starts showing any resistance at all he decides to murder the poor hairy fker.
This is a character who – again – Darth Vader, that guy who cuts old men in two, tortures Han Solo without asking questions, and strangles his own allies with magic – tells to settle down. This is a legendarily violent and dangerous dude.
Edited by Halb on Thursday 28th April 19:37
A lot of it is perceived "bad assery" though. On screen he actually does very little. I'm all for implied menace and good characterisation as much as the next guy but I just don't see it in Fett. If they had intended for him to be so important and such a bad-a*s, why did he yet again have minimal screen time in ROTJ, he literally gets taken out like a chump? I would argue at the time his impact was minimal. It's only years after the fact that some people decided that this bit part character was "cool" all of a sudden, probably due to the rarity of the toy because no one bought one at the time as he wasn't important enough.
The EU stuff about him surviving the saarlac was also ret-conned much later once he'd built up a cult following. Trust me Lucas isn't that clever as is the case with most other directors. This cult hero worship isn't just restricted to SW, fans often fill in the gaps and come up with plots, characterisations etc that just aren't there in the original material in lots of other films too. That's fine if it floats your boat but is often not what the original creator intended.
As mentioned before it's happening again with the baton twirling trooper.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/tr-8r-the-stormtroop...
The EU stuff about him surviving the saarlac was also ret-conned much later once he'd built up a cult following. Trust me Lucas isn't that clever as is the case with most other directors. This cult hero worship isn't just restricted to SW, fans often fill in the gaps and come up with plots, characterisations etc that just aren't there in the original material in lots of other films too. That's fine if it floats your boat but is often not what the original creator intended.
As mentioned before it's happening again with the baton twirling trooper.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/tr-8r-the-stormtroop...
Guvernator said:
A lot of it is perceived "bad assery" though. On screen he actually does very little. I'm all for implied menace and good characterisation as much as the next guy but I just don't see it in Fett. If they had intended for him to be so important and such a bad-a*s, why did he yet again have minimal screen time in ROTJ, he literally gets taken out like a chump? I would argue at the time his impact was minimal. It's only years after the fact that some people decided that this bit part character was "cool" all of a sudden, probably due to the rarity of the toy because no one bought one at the time as he wasn't important enough.
The EU stuff about him surviving the saarlac was also ret-conned much later once he'd built up a cult following. Trust me Lucas isn't that clever as is the case with most other directors.
Kircher is that clever though...physically Fett does little, but as the article shows, his character actually inhabits a huge area, so onscreen, he does a lot. Vader's respect does that. The only other person Vader pays respect to is the Emperor.The EU stuff about him surviving the saarlac was also ret-conned much later once he'd built up a cult following. Trust me Lucas isn't that clever as is the case with most other directors.
Halb said:
Kircher is that clever though...physically Fett does little, but as the article shows, his character actually inhabits a huge area, so onscreen, he does a lot. Vader's respect does that. The only other person Vader pays respect to is the Emperor.
Fair enough, some people see respect, I see a few throw-away lines that have been blown out of proportion. I'm not convinced the original intent was to have Vader afraid of upsetting Fett or asking him to reign it in, nothing else in ESB is really that clever or subtle to suggest that there is this whole subtext going on between Vader and Fett and his bit part in ROTJ just confirms that for me. People see different things I guess so we'll agree to disagree. Interesting discussion though 
Guvernator said:
Fair enough, some people see respect, I see a few throw-away lines that have been blown out of proportion. I'm not convinced the original intent was to have Vader afraid of upsetting Fett or asking him to reign it in, nothing else in ESB is really that clever or subtle to suggest that there is this whole subtext going on between Vader and Fett and his bit part in ROTJ just confirms that for me. People see different things I guess so we'll agree to disagree. Interesting discussion though
Indeed it is. Kirchcer and Kurtz had bailed by the time RotJ was filming, and they thought it had turned into a big toy advert.Though I do think subtly exists in the Yoda scenes, Kershner is all about people and what they do, not fight scenes.
Yeah, I don't see Vader as worried about Fett, just as a person he sort of likes as a top-level player, so he pays him the courtesy of telling him not to go overboard so Vader won't have to inevitably kill him, like all subordinates who do the wrong thing.
"Kershner, who was an appealing directorial candidate to Lucas because of his focus on character development, was first reluctant to direct the film. When asked by Lucas to work on the project over lunch, Kershner refused. Kershner's agent was told about the meeting and encouraged him to take the job. Kershner later discussed his motivations: "I was grabbed by the fairytale which Lucas invented and wanted to be part of keeping it alive." Of his cinematic style, Kershner has said, "I like to fill up the frame with the characters' faces. There's nothing more interesting than the landscape of the human face."
I hadn't realised that Fett was gonna kill Chewie, that made me chuckle.
Edited by Halb on Friday 29th April 10:34
I didn't even know who he was until years after seeing the films. Utterly un-memorable at the time, I thought.
Even Lucas admits he was just a bit-part designed to trigger certain plot devices who turned out to be surprisingly popular.
I honestly don't see why people get into so much forensic detail about stuff like this. He's just a small character in a film. Over-analysis is what has fking ruined the Star Wars films and IMO indirectly gave birth to the abominations that were E1,2 and 3.
Even Lucas admits he was just a bit-part designed to trigger certain plot devices who turned out to be surprisingly popular.
I honestly don't see why people get into so much forensic detail about stuff like this. He's just a small character in a film. Over-analysis is what has f
king ruined the Star Wars films and IMO indirectly gave birth to the abominations that were E1,2 and 3.Halb said:
I hadn't realised that Fett was gonna kill Chewie, that made me chuckle.
He's also quickest to the draw when Leia in disguise threatens to blow up Jabba with a thermal detonator. Pretty trigger happy to be fair. I just think if they had wanted him to be more prominent he deserved better. In the sail barge fight he basically does bugger all, misses Luke SEVERAL times from point blank range then gets shoved off the barge with a stick from a blind man into the waiting maws of the Sarlaac. His threat level was basically non-existent in ROTJ. If they've gone to the bother of setting him up as a bad-a*s in ESB, at least give him SOMETHING to do in the next one. I think this more than anything leads me to believe he wasn't that important in Lucas's grand scheme.A similar thing happened in the prequels to be fair with General Grievous. The build-up before the film had him setup as a jedi hunter, he kept the light-sabre's of the Jedi he'd previously killed as trophies on his belt FFS. Before the movie I was thinking this guy is going to be great. He ended up being a non event, an asthmatic robot who runs away isn't what I was hoping for really.
The one thing Star Wars needs is really strong villains, they nailed it with Vader and the Emperor in the OT but the PT is very weak in this regard IMO apart from Maul who is killed off way to early. In a similar vein Kylo Ren started off really strong but then seemed to loose all menace about half way through the film. I'm hoping they develop him into something more worthwhile in the next instalment as he ended on a bit of a whimper in SW7 IMO.
Disastrous said:
Even Lucas admits he was just a bit-part designed to trigger certain plot devices who turned out to be surprisingly popular.
I honestly don't see why people get into so much forensic detail about stuff like this. He's just a small character in a film. Over-analysis is what has fking ruined the Star Wars films and IMO indirectly gave birth to the abominations that were E1,2 and 3.
I think it is under analysis that led to the crappy prequels, case in point, above LUcas says Fett was a throwaway character, and it was LUcas that had him killed ignobly in RotJ and it is George 'make him sound evil' LUcas who made the prequels. Over analysis of character and agenda is what makes films great! People take the piss out of actors finding their truth or thinking about motivation, but that stuff is important for all characters, and when it all comes together, it's magic.I honestly don't see why people get into so much forensic detail about stuff like this. He's just a small character in a film. Over-analysis is what has f
king ruined the Star Wars films and IMO indirectly gave birth to the abominations that were E1,2 and 3.I am reminded of Tony Curtis and one of his first roles as a bellboy, he told the director, he didn't really know what to do, how to play it, he asked fore motivation. The director said, your motivation is to get a tip. Then it all made sense.
Halb said:
Disastrous said:
Even Lucas admits he was just a bit-part designed to trigger certain plot devices who turned out to be surprisingly popular.
I honestly don't see why people get into so much forensic detail about stuff like this. He's just a small character in a film. Over-analysis is what has fking ruined the Star Wars films and IMO indirectly gave birth to the abominations that were E1,2 and 3.
I think it is under analysis that led to the crappy prequels, case in point, above LUcas says Fett was a throwaway character, and it was LUcas that had him killed ignobly in RotJ and it is George 'make him sound evil' LUcas who made the prequels. Over analysis of character and agenda is what makes films great! People take the piss out of actors finding their truth or thinking about motivation, but that stuff is important for all characters, and when it all comes together, it's magic.I honestly don't see why people get into so much forensic detail about stuff like this. He's just a small character in a film. Over-analysis is what has f
king ruined the Star Wars films and IMO indirectly gave birth to the abominations that were E1,2 and 3.I am reminded of Tony Curtis and one of his first roles as a bellboy, he told the director, he didn't really know what to do, how to play it, he asked fore motivation. The director said, your motivation is to get a tip. Then it all made sense.
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