Star Wars 7

[The Beaver King]

I do think that Episodes 1,2 & 3 get a lot of undeserved hate.

I'm too young for the original release, but I watched them a lot growing up. I remember getting the remastered versions on VHS for Christmas when I was 8/9 years old and watching them repeatedly.

Episode 1 was a bit poor in comparison to the originals; only because I felt it lost a lot of the 'darker' undertones. It was very much a 'kiddies' film and it suffered because of that.

Episode 2 & 3 were much better, with 3 being particularly dark. Anakin's whole 'slide into the darkside' was done really well and his change into Darth Vader was quite intense.

My biggest criticism was the poor use of some cracking bad guys. Darth Maul and General Grievous deserved much more screen time and should have been carried over through all 3 films. Darth Maul in particular was wasted and I would have prefered him to be the main baddie, with the Emperor having more of a 'puppet master' role in the background.

Had I written the script, I would've had Maul kill Anakin's mum (at the Emperor's orders) and then a final stand off between the two that climaxes in Anakin's victory and, with it, his total conversion to the darkside.

I have high hopes for Episode 7 as long as it doesn't fall foul of the same mistakes of Episode 1.

[Prawnboy]

i remember the exiting build up to the prequels so well
then this happened

and this happened

and this happened......


then they hired the guy that fked star trek and so i will never ever watch this film.

[Zod]

The Beaver King said:

I do think that Episodes 1,2 & 3 get a lot of undeserved hate.

I'm too young for the original release, but I watched them a lot growing up. I remember getting the remastered versions on VHS for Christmas when I was 8/9 years old and watching them repeatedly.

Episode 1 was a bit poor in comparison to the originals; only because I felt it lost a lot of the 'darker' undertones. It was very much a 'kiddies' film and it suffered because of that.

Episode 2 & 3 were much better, with 3 being particularly dark. Anakin's whole 'slide into the darkside' was done really well and his change into Darth Vader was quite intense.

My biggest criticism was the poor use of some cracking bad guys. Darth Maul and General Grievous deserved much more screen time and should have been carried over through all 3 films. Darth Maul in particular was wasted and I would have prefered him to be the main baddie, with the Emperor having more of a 'puppet master' role in the background.

Had I written the script, I would've had Maul kill Anakin's mum (at the Emperor's orders) and then a final stand off between the two that climaxes in Anakin's victory and, with it, his total conversion to the darkside.

I have high hopes for Episode 7 as long as it doesn't fall foul of the same mistakes of Episode 1.

I agree with much of this. The Gungans were a huge mistake, showing that nothing had been learned from the mistake of inserting Ewoks into RotJ.

Count Dooku was a pointless character. Darth Maul should have been the apprentice throughout and Anakin's rival.

[P-Jay]

Zod said:

I agree with much of this. The Gungans were a huge mistake, showing that nothing had been learned from the mistake of inserting Ewoks into RotJ.

Count Dooku was a pointless character. Darth Maul should have been the apprentice throughout and Anakin's rival.

Depends on your point of view - to those of us who grew up with the original franchise the Ewoks were a bit st - but to George Lucas who secured the rights to all the toy / lunch box money the Ewoks were a massive money spinner - same goes with Jar Jar fecking Binks - all the adults who were kids for the first lot hated him, but it was Jar jars face on all the cereal boxes and stuff.

Hopefully they wont feel the need for an over-cutsey character for the sake of a Toy line for these ones - but I'd bet they add one.

[Bullett]

The Beaver King said:

Episode 2 & 3 were much better, with 3 being particularly dark. Anakin's whole 'slide into the darkside' was done really well and his change into Darth Vader was quite intense.

No no no.
Anakin turning to the darkside was very badly handled. He was basically Kevin the space teenager.
Some good and bad parts in all the prequels, the pod race, Darth Maul etc. They were all kids films though, my 5yo loves them all equally.

[JonRB]

Bullett said:

No no no.
Anakin turning to the darkside was very badly handled. He was basically Kevin the space teenager.

I agree. One minute he's petulant, confused and susceptible to persuasion, and then suddenly he's off murdering children. It was all rather sudden and with no clear motivation.

Him executing Count Dooku was a foreboding of it, yes. But that should have been played upon more, with Obi Wan increasingly questioning Anakin's motives and actions, but it wasn't.

I think you put your finger on it with 'Kevin the Space Teenager'.
"Oh that's so UNFAIR. Obi Wan never lets me do ANYTHING"

Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 5th August 17:27

[Halmyre]

Bullett said:

The Beaver King said:

Episode 2 & 3 were much better, with 3 being particularly dark. Anakin's whole 'slide into the darkside' was done really well and his change into Darth Vader was quite intense.

No no no.
Anakin turning to the darkside was very badly handled. He was basically Kevin the space teenager.

This.

And then, at the very end of the 'turning into Darth Vader' scene, there's the hammy "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!", and Milking The Giant Cow.

[Civpilot]

Prawnboy said:

<Snip>

then they hired the guy that fked star trek and so i will never ever watch this film.

Really?

I think the Star Trek Reboot has been superbly handled. They took a really chessy past it's sell by date franchise and successfully modernised it with up to date special effects and interesting new takes on the Characters. The 'new' Kirk is about 1000% less cheesy than Shatner (and can also act), and Zachary Quinto seems to be channelling pure Nimory as Spock. Hell, I even forgave the lens flare.

TBH hiring JJ was about the best news I heard when they announced it. I think the new movie has at least a chance with him at the helm.... did we really want another Lucas abomination? And the fact that the actors involved seem to be in love with the story and script... can anyone say that about the second Lucas star was trilogy? loving the script? no, didn't think so.

I do remain quite confident about these new movies, and the visuals that JJ has shown so far are only adding to that feeling. Visually he seems to 'get it' at least.

[JonRB]

Civpilot said:

I think the Star Trek Reboot has been superbly handled. They took a really chessy past it's sell by date franchise and successfully modernised it with up to date special effects and interesting new takes on the Characters. The 'new' Kirk is about 1000% less cheesy than Shatner (and can also act), and Zachary Quinto seems to be channelling pure Nimory as Spock. Hell, I even forgave the lens flare.

I think my biggest gripe about the Star Trek remake was very eloquently expressed by Plinkett (Red Letter Media) who pointed out that it was Star Trek turned up to ELEVEN. eg. Scotty isn't just a competent engineer but is now a genius, etc. All big bangs, explosions, running around, and action action action.

Perhaps that might lend itself better to Star Wars though as that is more of an action genre. Or, certainly, Eps 4-6 were. Certainly they had no interminable talk of trade embargoes and taxation (FFS).

On balance, my general feeling is that it's unlikely any worse than the ste that Lucas crapped out for Eps 1-3, and given Disney's track record is likely to be a hell of a lot better.

[Halb]

Vader's turn doesn't stand up to internal logic. The whole point of the six films (Lucas retconned) is Vader's redemption arc? Yet Vader cannot be really be redeemed if he was first tricked into being an agent of evil. He should have chosen and grasped at that chance of being a baddie and going for the power. And that is just one shaky marshmallow foundation stone of the whole crumbling edifice.

Lucas is a moron.

[JonRB]

Halb said:

Lucas is a moron.

I'm afraid I have to agree. Just shows how much he was carried by others in Eps 4-6, and how when he was surrounded by sycophants and people too scared to disagree with him (probably quite justifiably afraid of being fired if they did) and doing it all himself, he produced the utter garbage that is Eps 1-3.

To his credit, though, the overall vision is one of the reasons Star Wars has been so successful. Even if it is just rehashed fairly tales and folk tales.

[HorneyMX5]

While there are holes in many aspects of the starwars saga (of which I am huge fan) it does make me laugh when grown men pick apart the story and complain about cuddly characters in a series of films squarely aimed at those aged under 16. It has never been about high brow Sci-Fi. You never see the Shrek films dissected with such venom and yet they are in essence the same concept to the same sort of audience.

[JonRB]

HorneyMX5 said:

While there are holes in many aspects of the starwars saga (of which I am huge fan) it does make me laugh when grown men pick apart the story and complain about cuddly characters in a series of films squarely aimed at those aged under 16. It has never been about high brow Sci-Fi. You never see the Shrek films dissected with such venom and yet they are in essence the same concept to the same sort of audience.

Who are you calling a grown man?

[Zod]

JonRB said:

Civpilot said:

I think the Star Trek Reboot has been superbly handled. They took a really chessy past it's sell by date franchise and successfully modernised it with up to date special effects and interesting new takes on the Characters. The 'new' Kirk is about 1000% less cheesy than Shatner (and can also act), and Zachary Quinto seems to be channelling pure Nimory as Spock. Hell, I even forgave the lens flare.

I think my biggest gripe about the Star Trek remake was very eloquently expressed by Plinkett (Red Letter Media) who pointed out that it was Star Trek turned up to ELEVEN. eg. Scotty isn't just a competent engineer but is now a genius, etc. All big bangs, explosions, running around, and action action action.

Perhaps that might lend itself better to Star Wars though as that is more of an action genre. Or, certainly, Eps 4-6 were. Certainly they had no interminable talk of trade embargoes and taxation (FFS).

On balance, my general feeling is that it's unlikely any worse than the ste that Lucas crapped out for Eps 1-3, and given Disney's track record is likely to be a hell of a lot better.

the Star Trek reboot movies are miles better than any of the others, apart from First Cintact and (possibly) Wrath of Khan, although the latter is very dated now.

[Prawnboy]

Civpilot said:

Really?

I think the Star Trek Reboot has been superbly handled. They took a really chessy past it's sell by date franchise and successfully modernised it with up to date special effects and interesting new takes on the Characters. The 'new' Kirk is about 1000% less cheesy than Shatner (and can also act), and Zachary Quinto seems to be channelling pure Nimory as Spock. Hell, I even forgave the lens flare.

TBH hiring JJ was about the best news I heard when they announced it. I think the new movie has at least a chance with him at the helm.... did we really want another Lucas abomination? And the fact that the actors involved seem to be in love with the story and script... can anyone say that about the second Lucas star was trilogy? loving the script? no, didn't think so.

I do remain quite confident about these new movies, and the visuals that JJ has shown so far are only adding to that feeling. Visually he seems to 'get it' at least.

hey hey hey- shatner can out act that moron who played the new kirk.

no subtlety
no heart
no leadership
no screen presence
don't retrofit cheese onto a 60 year old sci-fi program and subsequent films, they were at the time properly interesting, and in the case of the wrath of khan a sci-fi classic.
not something you could say about 'into darkness'
modern fx can't mask piss poor scripting and characterisation.

the new star wars movie will be classic JJ- massive lumps of average, and because EP1-3 were st people will proclaim the new one is genius.

[JonRB]

Zod said:

he Star Trek reboot movies are miles better than any of the others, apart from First Cintact and (possibly) Wrath of Khan, although the latter is very dated now.

Miles better action movies, maybe. Not miles better Star Trek ones though.

I'm not sure Wrath of Khan will ever be bettered.

[VinceFox]

Tbh i think guardians has come at the perfect time. It's reminded us that quality and entertainment for both adults and kids IS possible.

Go and watch guardians annd then try and sit through any of the prequels.

• does groot dance

[JonRB]

Doing the rounds at the moment courtesy of George Takei

'The Star Wars That I Used To Know' - Gotye 'Somebody That I Used To Know' Parody

Edit: Although it is a couple of years old. Uncle George does do that quite a bit.

Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 5th August 20:21

[richtea78]

Prawnboy said:

then they hired the guy that fked star trek and so i will never ever watch this film.

They did what? Star Trek was st till the reboot. The films were a joke

JJ is not the messiah but he is a safe pair of hands. I expect Ep 7 to be a relatively solid unamazing film. It will be inoffensive and not risky. It will form a solid core while people like Gareth Edwards direct the more daring films

[Prawnboy]

richtea78 said:

I expect Ep 7 to be a relatively solid unamazing film. It will be inoffensive and not risky.

and so not worth seeing.