Star Wars 7

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Discussion

JonRB

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Mr Whippy said:
At first they used it to nail the shots that they used to try do but couldn't entirely pull off, with jaw-dropping results (Jurassic Park!)... but today it's just gone bonkers really... to the point that less is more in most CGI films today.
That's one of the things I like about Pacific Rim. If you watch the 'Behind the Scenes' stuff on the DVD/BD you'll see that Guillermo del Toro went to great pains to construct sets so actors could react convincingly to the CGI. A case in point being when a monster crushes dumpsters whilst the little girl screams - the dumpsters are real and deform pneumatically, rather than being CGI. So the little girl jumps / cringes convincingly when it happens.

Compare that to Revenge of the Sith when General Grievous is flailing four lightsabers mere inches in front of Obi Wan Kenobi's face. Ewan McGregor just stands there like a lemon not reacting, because he's stood in front of a Green Screen with nothing to act to and had probably just been told "Ok Ewan - there is going to be some CGI of Grievous twirling his lightsabers a bit, before you fight him, so just act like you're ready to fight or something".


Guvernator

13,104 posts

164 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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JonRB said:
That's one of the things I like about Pacific Rim. If you watch the 'Behind the Scenes' stuff on the DVD/BD you'll see that Guillermo del Toro went to great pains to construct sets so actors could react convincingly to the CGI. A case in point being when a monster crushes dumpsters whilst the little girl screams - the dumpsters are real and deform pneumatically, rather than being CGI. So the little girl jumps / cringes convincingly when it happens.

Compare that to Revenge of the Sith when General Grievous is flailing four lightsabers mere inches in front of Obi Wan Kenobi's face. Ewan McGregor just stands there like a lemon not reacting, because he's stood in front of a Green Screen with nothing to act to and had probably just been told "Ok Ewan - there is going to be some CGI of Grievous twirling his lightsabers a bit, before you fight him, so just act like you're ready to fight or something".
Wasn't Avatar filmed entirely in an empty room with motion capture\green screen technology? I'm not saying Avatar is a paragon of acting ability but you can at least feel a lot of the emotion the actors where trying to portray unlike in the Star Wars prequels. Surely they had the same problems of acting to nothing but they've done a semi-reasonable job.

I also suspect Ewan, Neeson et al are slightly more accomplished actors then Sam Worthington so I'm not really sure what went wrong their so is it that the director hasn't managed to coax the performances out of them?

JonRB

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
I also suspect Ewan, Neeson et al are slightly more accomplished actors then Sam Worthington so I'm not really sure what went wrong there so is it that the director hasn't managed to coax the performances out of them?
That's a fair point. Perhaps it's just a case of George Lucas not being a very good director.


Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JonRB said:
Mr Whippy said:
At first they used it to nail the shots that they used to try do but couldn't entirely pull off, with jaw-dropping results (Jurassic Park!)... but today it's just gone bonkers really... to the point that less is more in most CGI films today.
That's one of the things I like about Pacific Rim. If you watch the 'Behind the Scenes' stuff on the DVD/BD you'll see that Guillermo del Toro went to great pains to construct sets so actors could react convincingly to the CGI. A case in point being when a monster crushes dumpsters whilst the little girl screams - the dumpsters are real and deform pneumatically, rather than being CGI. So the little girl jumps / cringes convincingly when it happens.

Compare that to Revenge of the Sith when General Grievous is flailing four lightsabers mere inches in front of Obi Wan Kenobi's face. Ewan McGregor just stands there like a lemon not reacting, because he's stood in front of a Green Screen with nothing to act to and had probably just been told "Ok Ewan - there is going to be some CGI of Grievous twirling his lightsabers a bit, before you fight him, so just act like you're ready to fight or something".
Funny you should mention Pacific Rim because I watched that and found it quite ok.

There were a few cringey bits like flipping from serious to comedy relief a bit too hard and fast at times, and some of the back-story 'pain' felt laboured, but generally it ran quite well and in the end I was glad I'd spent time watching it. I perhaps wish they'd explained the aliens a bit more in the second 'mind trip', but instead they just discovered enough info to get them through the aperture... a wasted opportunity for a flashback/montage biggrin

The VFX generally felt quite nice in that. I had expected to not like it so it was a nice surprise.


However, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2, well they just felt a bit generic really. Lots of action, wow, great etc, but I doubt I'll ever watch either of them again unless it's on the TV and I happen to catch it. And the whole story intermix stuff is getting confusing. Also the plot was very thinly veiled. Even I could work out the end before either had started significantly and usually I'm quite crap at such stuff.

Dave

JonRB

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Mr Whippy said:
However, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2, well they just felt a bit generic really. Lots of action, wow, great etc, but I doubt I'll ever watch either of them again unless it's on the TV and I happen to catch it.
Agreed - Iron Man 3 got very silly at the end. Also, am I the only one who is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of saying to an AI "Jarvis; you know what to do" and it turns out that "what to do" is to kill several humans with remote-operated Iron Man suits.

Presumably in Iron Man 4, Jarvis decides to rename itself as Skynet and proceeds to try to wipe out humanity. smile

Anyway, we appear to have gone everso slightly Off Topic. hehe

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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JonRB said:
Mr Whippy said:
However, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2, well they just felt a bit generic really. Lots of action, wow, great etc, but I doubt I'll ever watch either of them again unless it's on the TV and I happen to catch it.
Agreed - Iron Man 3 got very silly at the end. Also, am I the only one who is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of saying to an AI "Jarvis; you know what to do" and it turns out that "what to do" is to kill several humans with remote-operated Iron Man suits.

Presumably in Iron Man 4, Jarvis decides to rename itself as Skynet and proceeds to try to wipe out humanity. smile

Anyway, we appear to have gone everso slightly Off Topic. hehe
Well it's on and off topic.

It's outlining the risks of getting over-excited about something until after you've seen it 'these days'


As per that Millenium Falcon thingy, probably fan made.

Remember pre-TPM there were fan made videos with Braveheart battle scenes over-painted with light sabres and stuff. In 320x240 on the internets and everything hehe


It's gonna end up just like Apple iPhone speculation imo. Best to just wait till an official trailer and not bother even looking until that point just in case the films to turn out to be amazing and you end up ruining something for yourself smile

Dave

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Most excellent fan made trailer for Empire.
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Empire-Strikes-Back...

Johnny

9,652 posts

283 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Trailer

http://youtu.be/ze0t_fMORaw

I'm excited biggrin

Skii

1,625 posts

190 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Johnny said:
Trailer

http://youtu.be/ze0t_fMORaw

I'm excited biggrin
Hopefully you'll be even more excited when the genuine trailer is released in a few days time.

Johnny

9,652 posts

283 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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I did wonder, and I'm, sure I will be wink

Nightmare

5,182 posts

283 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Guvernator said:
Nope sorry, going to have to disagree with the ROTJ\Han's Death\Darker = better fans. I think ROTJ is fine the way it is. Sure it has a few slips but that Endor\Death Star Space Battle\Luke Vs Vader Vs Emperor climax is just breathtaking. Even the cuts between the 3 fights scenes are perfectly timed to build to a brilliant crescendo.

They've tried to recreate that interplay of 2-3 different scenes countless times now but none have got close to the original. You want dark, their is plenty of dark in the Luke\Vader\Emperor face off, it doesn't need to end on a further downer with Hans death. Far too many films end on a bum note, with me leaving the cinema slightly sad because they've decided to kill off a main character for no other reason that it now seems cool to do so. This is meant to be a modern day fairy tale, I want a happy finish goddamit. (oo-err)

I know it's cool to say Empire is the best one cos it's "sooo dark" but honestly I get more enjoyment from watching ROTJ because of it's upbeat ending.
100% with you on this.......i too am bored of the 'kill a character we all like to make it more serious or cool or something' approach - hugely prevalent in certain books and films now.

Empre is only sooo good because jedi exists; otherwise it would have just been a sad ending!

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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JonRB said:
Guvernator said:
I also suspect Ewan, Neeson et al are slightly more accomplished actors then Sam Worthington so I'm not really sure what went wrong there so is it that the director hasn't managed to coax the performances out of them?
That's a fair point. Perhaps it's just a case of George Lucas not being a very good director.
I was surprised at the woodeness of Ewan and others, though not Neeson, he was one of the better performances.
I would think that some actors need far more directorial input than others, the younger less skilled ones moreso. I also think range was an issue, like in Jackson's case, he just made me cringe.
A third option is laziness. Lucas directed remotely sometimes, perhaps his sense of laziness just permeated everyone's work mantra.
Performances that didn't suffer? McDiarmid and Lee, two old warhorses.

Nuclearsquash

1,329 posts

261 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
JonRB said:
Agreed - Iron Man 3 got very silly at the end. Also, am I the only one who is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of saying to an AI "Jarvis; you know what to do" and it turns out that "what to do" is to kill several humans with remote-operated Iron Man suits.

Presumably in Iron Man 4, Jarvis decides to rename itself as Skynet and proceeds to try to wipe out humanity. smile

Anyway, we appear to have gone everso slightly Off Topic. hehe
Watch the trailer for Avengers Age of Ultron...you're not a million miles off!

durbster

10,223 posts

221 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Halb said:
A third option is laziness. Lucas directed remotely sometimes, perhaps his sense of laziness just permeated everyone's work mantra.
Performances that didn't suffer? McDiarmid and Lee, two old warhorses.
Peter Serafinowic did the voice of Darth Maul and said he asked Lucas for a bit more background to the character so he could work out how he was going to deliver the voice for the scenes. He said all he got from Lucas was, "make him sound really evil".

I genuinely think Star Wars succeeded despite Lucas rather than because of him.

Negative Creep

24,942 posts

226 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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durbster said:
Halb said:
A third option is laziness. Lucas directed remotely sometimes, perhaps his sense of laziness just permeated everyone's work mantra.
Performances that didn't suffer? McDiarmid and Lee, two old warhorses.
Peter Serafinowic did the voice of Darth Maul and said he asked Lucas for a bit more background to the character so he could work out how he was going to deliver the voice for the scenes. He said all he got from Lucas was, "make him sound really evil".

I genuinely think Star Wars succeeded despite Lucas rather than because of him.
I really think McDiarmid is one of the best things about the entire franchise

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Negative Creep said:
durbster said:
Halb said:
A third option is laziness. Lucas directed remotely sometimes, perhaps his sense of laziness just permeated everyone's work mantra.
Performances that didn't suffer? McDiarmid and Lee, two old warhorses.
Peter Serafinowic did the voice of Darth Maul and said he asked Lucas for a bit more background to the character so he could work out how he was going to deliver the voice for the scenes. He said all he got from Lucas was, "make him sound really evil".

I genuinely think Star Wars succeeded despite Lucas rather than because of him.
I really think McDiarmid is one of the best things about the entire franchise
I agree, he was a real find.

And in response to the bolded bit... biggrin
I just read this!
"It's no secret that editing is a huge part of what made that first Star Wars movie great. There's a reason that Paul Hirsch, Marcia Lucas, and Richard Chew won the Academy Award for editing that year."
http://io9.com/star-wars-deleted-scenes-reveal-the...

JonRB

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Halb said:
And in response to the bolded bit... biggrin
I just read this!
"It's no secret that editing is a huge part of what made that first Star Wars movie great. There's a reason that Paul Hirsch, Marcia Lucas, and Richard Chew won the Academy Award for editing that year."
http://io9.com/star-wars-deleted-scenes-reveal-the...
Interesting.

So... lots of exposition, "act/react" and "walking & talking"... all the things that Plinkett says were wrong with George Lucus' directing in Phantom Menace. It's all starting to make sense now. scratchchin

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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JonRB said:
DJRC said:
Defo a whole lot of Too Cool For School going on. I was at the midnight showing of Phantom at the cinema on opening of general release. Nobody was unhappy during the film.
You interviewed each and every one?

I travelled up to London to see Phantom Menace at Leicester Square (having held off seeing it at a local cinema for 2 weeks - it was the first showing that wasn't sold out), having bigged up how awesome it was going to be to my girlfriend. I came out deeply, deeply disappointed and told her that I'd been waiting 14 years for that film and couldn't remember when I had last been that disappointed.

Still, your experience overrides mine, eh?

Guvernator said:
Do you not think that had more to do with the atmosphere and anticipation on the night? I too was there on opening night and while the atmosphere was brilliant going in, I can distinctly remember leaving the cinema in a mild state of shock as my brain couldn't process the fact that they'd made manage to screw up a Star Wars film. When I had some more time to think about it the next day and talk it over with friends, my worst fears were confirmed, it just wasn't that good. I am too much of a sci-fi nerd to be too cool for school too so I can't even blame that. smile
Yes. Exactly this. yes
Yes it does. Why? Because I wasn't sad enough to tell a girl I had been waiting 14yrs to see a frigging sic fi film. ie. Im vaguely normal. Its just a film, its there to waste 2-3hrs of your life and then largely forget about it an hr after its finished and you are back home, other than to randomly ponder it every now and then.

Good grief.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
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DJRC said:
Yes it does. Why? Because I wasn't sad enough to tell a girl I had been waiting 14yrs to see a frigging sic fi film. ie. Im vaguely normal. Its just a film, its there to waste 2-3hrs of your life and then largely forget about it an hr after its finished and you are back home, other than to randomly ponder it every now and then.

Good grief.
I can relate to this. I remember watching Jar Jar Binks for the first time and wanting the ground to open up and swallow me. I ended up watching it through the fingers of my palm, placed over my face at the horror and the embarrassment of it all. I was thinking to myself - how the hell can I explain to my friends how I managed to drag them along to see this?

JonRB

74,402 posts

271 months

Thursday 27th November 2014
quotequote all
DJRC said:
Yes it does. Why? Because I wasn't sad enough to tell a girl I had been waiting 14yrs to see a frigging sic fi film. ie. Im vaguely normal. Its just a film, its there to waste 2-3hrs of your life and then largely forget about it an hr after its finished and you are back home, other than to randomly ponder it every now and then.

Good grief.
I believe a friendly passing Mod may have removed my previous post.

So, more politely, I do not accept your judgemental comments about me and respectfully invite you to take them elsewhere.