Independence Day 2
Discussion
ID1 was massively offensive, the whole subtext of that film was that Americans are not only wonderful, everyone actually wants to be one, they're there to save the day and the world would be f
ked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.
I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
ked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
qube_TA said:
ID1 was massively offensive, the whole subtext of that film was that Americans are not only wonderful, everyone actually wants to be one, they're there to save the day and the world would be fked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.
I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
I often see rage against this film for the same reasons and I think people read way too much into it. Is there a bit of flag waving in it? Yep. Does it spoil the fact that it's an amusing summer popcorn affair where we get to see lots of things get blown up? Not really.ked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
I think sometimes we have a tendency to over think films way too much, hell half the films produced by Hollywood are over patriotic and full of plot holes but ID4 (see even the name is a piss take
) seems to get more than it's fair share of abuse over this for some reason.I've not seen any other films with Jaden Smith in, but I thought he was pretty good in 'The Pursuit of Happyness'. Okay he didn't blow me away but at no point did I think he was bad or thought he was wrong for the part. In fact I'd even say that the 'real' father-son relationship, made the film more believable.
TheTurbonator said:
I've not seen any other films with Jaden Smith in, but I thought he was pretty good in 'The Pursuit of Happyness'. Okay he didn't blow me away but at no point did I think he was bad or thought he was wrong for the part. In fact I'd even say that the 'real' father-son relationship, made the film more believable.
That kind of proves my point.1. Was he the best actor for the part, hell, did they even audition anyone else?
2. You have to suspend your disbelief to get past Will Smith, but to then have his actual son in the film as well?
Guvernator said:
qube_TA said:
ID1 was massively offensive, the whole subtext of that film was that Americans are not only wonderful, everyone actually wants to be one, they're there to save the day and the world would be fked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.
I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
I often see rage against this film for the same reasons and I think people read way too much into it. Is there a bit of flag waving in it? Yep. Does it spoil the fact that it's an amusing summer popcorn affair where we get to see lots of things get blown up? Not really.ked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
I think sometimes we have a tendency to over think films way too much, hell half the films produced by Hollywood are over patriotic and full of plot holes but ID4 (see even the name is a piss take
) seems to get more than it's fair share of abuse over this for some reason.TheTurbonator said:
I've not seen any other films with Jaden Smith in, but I thought he was pretty good in 'The Pursuit of Happyness'. Okay he didn't blow me away but at no point did I think he was bad or thought he was wrong for the part. In fact I'd even say that the 'real' father-son relationship, made the film more believable.
We must have watched a different film then, in both this and the Karate Kid I thought he was terrible. He always just seems to play Will Smiths son playing Will Smiths son if that makes sense. He acts exactly how I'd expect Will Smiths son playing at being an actor would act which takes me out of the film far too often. The fact that I know he is their BECAUSE he is Will Smiths son and not because of any great acting talent only compounds the problem.Guvernator said:
TheTurbonator said:
I've not seen any other films with Jaden Smith in, but I thought he was pretty good in 'The Pursuit of Happyness'. Okay he didn't blow me away but at no point did I think he was bad or thought he was wrong for the part. In fact I'd even say that the 'real' father-son relationship, made the film more believable.
We must have watched a different film then, in both this and the Karate Kid I thought he was terrible. He always just seems to play Will Smiths son playing Will Smiths son if that makes sense. He acts exactly how I'd expect Will Smiths son playing at being an actor would act which takes me out of the film far too often. The fact that I know he is their BECAUSE he is Will Smiths son and not because of any great acting talent only compounds the problem.1. Has never heard of Jaden Smith
2. There is no such thing as a good child actor. They are are just brats there for the brats in the audience to relate to. Adults ignore them.
If you cannot manage point 2 above then frankly you shouldnt be allowed to continue breathing on the grounds you are too thick to be of any use to the human race.
2. There is no such thing as a good child actor. They are are just brats there for the brats in the audience to relate to. Adults ignore them.
If you cannot manage point 2 above then frankly you shouldnt be allowed to continue breathing on the grounds you are too thick to be of any use to the human race.
qube_TA said:
Again, I think people under-think films, if something is a bit daft and slapstick fair enough, as rubbish as they are I find the Fast and the Furious films a guilty pleasure for that reason, but ID4 and that insane speech at the end, they meant it, it wasn't meant to be ironic, with the Brits cowering in the shelters waiting for the mighty Americans to save them, sorry but sod off. We're just enabling them to keep hold onto this nonsense view.
Indeed. I know the bit you mean. Cut to British forces... "It's Morse code, Sir. It's the Americans."
"Oh thank god!"
Do sod off.
DJRC said:
1. Has never heard of Jaden Smith
2. There is no such thing as a good child actor. They are are just brats there for the brats in the audience to relate to. Adults ignore them.
If you cannot manage point 2 above then frankly you shouldnt be allowed to continue breathing on the grounds you are too thick to be of any use to the human race.
Lol say what you really mean DJRC! 2. There is no such thing as a good child actor. They are are just brats there for the brats in the audience to relate to. Adults ignore them.
If you cannot manage point 2 above then frankly you shouldnt be allowed to continue breathing on the grounds you are too thick to be of any use to the human race.
I beg to differ, there have been some very decent child actors, Haley Joel Osmont in 6th Sense and AI is superb (as already mentioned), in fact I'd argue AI isn't a childs film at all so remind me why it has a kid in it again? The kid in Loopers was also freakishly good (and freakish) for his age too and that's a 15 film. Joddie Foster in Taxi Driver, Dakota Fanning in all her films, Natalie Portman in Leon, none of which are kids films
I do agree there are some middling kid actors and their are some atrocious ones but I think your logic that kids are only in movies to for other kids to relate to is flawed. Can I still be allowed to carry on breathing?
DJRC said:
2. There is no such thing as a good child actor. They are are just brats there for the brats in the audience to relate to. Adults ignore them.
Interesting. How do you think Witness would have played out without a child actor as the eponymous witness? Or, as someone has already mentioned, Natalie Portman's character in Leon? 
qube_TA said:
ID1 was massively offensive, the whole subtext of that film was that Americans are not only wonderful, everyone actually wants to be one, they're there to save the day and the world would be fked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.
I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
I cant help but feel you've missed the point.ked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
Yes, it was the Americans who saved the day.
Kind of.
It was the flag waving, all conquering Americans the aliens initially kicked in - the Americans, as the most capable super power on Earth, were near powerless against the invaders.
That something so trivial brought the invaders to their knees, a computer virus... Computer virus aren't the weapon of choice of one nation - they're written by geeks worldwide. They're almost a product of the human race.
The entire plot is War of the Worlds - based in England, with the UK at the time being the dominant superpower. The point was that while we, as a tool waving species, were totally outgunned, millions of years of evolution on Earth saw to it that humanity could survive this planet but not the invading species. The book was published at the height of the British Empire, and, I think, an argument against throwing our weight around the world. To move the plot to American makes perfect sense - probably more now than it did back then!
If I had half a brain, I'd explain that better. But I don't, so maybe someone could help me out?! Ha.
GTIR said:
I had the misfortune to watch the first one in a cinema in California.
It was the most sereal experience.
People clapping, whooping, cheering, especially when Smith whips ET's arse
, and then they started walking in the isles clapping.
I've been told that this isn't normal behaviour but I'm not convinced.
I look forward to the next one.
I also did the same, In the Chinese Theatre! Another moment which got the crowd in a whooping frenzy was the 'no shooting at the alien ships' news report! It was the most sereal experience.
People clapping, whooping, cheering, especially when Smith whips ET's arse
, and then they started walking in the isles clapping. I've been told that this isn't normal behaviour but I'm not convinced.
I look forward to the next one.
So I would say it IS normal! And it's on SKY right now!
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