Independence Day 2

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Discussion

ZesPak

24,421 posts

195 months

Thursday 4th April 2013
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MocMocaMoc said:
qube_TA said:
ID1 was massively offensive, the whole subtext of that film was that Americans are not only wonderful, everyone actually wants to be one, they're there to save the day and the world would be fked without them. No other nation could make such a conceited film.

I could almost swallow the above if the rest of it had been acceptable, but having the aliens use Apple Macintosh computers on their spaceships and then uploading a virus to one was just too stupid for words.
I cant help but feel you've missed the point.

Yes, it was the Americans who saved the day.

Kind of.

It was the flag waving, all conquering Americans the aliens initially kicked in - the Americans, as the most capable super power on Earth, were near powerless against the invaders.

That something so trivial brought the invaders to their knees, a computer virus... Computer virus aren't the weapon of choice of one nation - they're written by geeks worldwide. They're almost a product of the human race.

The entire plot is War of the Worlds - based in England, with the UK at the time being the dominant superpower. The point was that while we, as a tool waving species, were totally outgunned, millions of years of evolution on Earth saw to it that humanity could survive this planet but not the invading species. The book was published at the height of the British Empire, and, I think, an argument against throwing our weight around the world. To move the plot to American makes perfect sense - probably more now than it did back then!

If I had half a brain, I'd explain that better. But I don't, so maybe someone could help me out?! Ha.
yes
The original (War Of The Worlds) did do it a bit better by using actual bacteria/viri, making an obvious point we are completely useless against nature (or in this case, the alien invaders). ID did more of a: we'll find a solution, if we just carry on!
I always loved the movie for how cheesy it was, it was also (imho) self-conscious (the "oops" joke for example). It never bothered me that it was a big flag waving exercise as well.

As for the earlier comments for Will Smith and his nepotism, well, you can't really blame him but I agree that it's a bit a shame that his son gets all the chances while some kids, probably a million times more talented, don't. But it's how any business works. I loved the pursuit of happiness, only found out he was his real son afterwards. I didn't like the Karate Kid, thought he was terrible in it though.

I'll probably go see the new After Earth as well, and if it doesn't pan out it could be the last father-son combo of them I watched in the cinema, which will eventually mean that Will has less viewers with him+his son as he would have alone. For everybody moaning in this thread, vote with your money because that's all this is about. If they make a 200mil $ movie, they're not going to risk a lot of audience by putting some actor's kid in. For now, Will Smith is an audience puller, if they notice that his son in return nullifies this "ability", the call from the studio is quickly made.

Mansells Tash

5,713 posts

205 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
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Script leak from 2 months ago and everything in there is 100% in line with the trailers released since.

the movie is set 20 years after the first movie ended, will smith's character died a few years ago, humans have rebuilt and advanced farther than ever using alien tech, suddenly one day a wormhole opens up near the moon and an alien ship comes through, we blast the ever loving st out of it with our reverse-engineered alien weaponry, alien ship debris land on the moon, we decide to up some guys to check it out oh and whitmore is starting to have visions of alien symbols)

Determined to find out about the mysterious spaceship that entered the wormhole, David recruits young fighter pilots Jake (Liam Hemsworth) and Dylan (Jesse Usher) to investigate the destroyed spaceship, all against strict orders of the White House. There is visible tension between Jake and Dylan, who stubbomly holds a grudge against Jake for his father's death. Patricia, knowing about her father ex-President Whitmore's strange visions, tries to persuade her fiancée Jake not to embark on this perilous mission, but Jake is as determined as David to know the truth and goes ahead anyway. On the moon, they locate the spaceship and find symbols identical to the ones in Whitmore's visions. After grabbing a piece of the wreckage, they launch off the moon's surface when suddenly - another wormhole opens up near them! This time, a gargantuan spaceship of epic proportions emerges- and it is exponentially larger than the alien ship of '96. The President orders to fire at the ship, narrowly missing Jake's aircraft, but our most powerful weapons have virtually no effect on the mothership, which continues to head towards Earth at breakneck speed - another attack on the 4th of July! Meanwhile on Earth, Dr. Okun (Brent Spiner) has woken in Area 51 from a 20-year coma and is having the same visions as Whitmore. He wants to speak to one of the aliens that have been held captive in an alien prison in Area 51 since the last attack to find out why they're coming back to Earth again. Since the aliens can't talk, they can only communicate by touching a tentacle to a human and sending their thoughts through the person. Dr. Okun uses former President Whitmore as the mouthpiece for this interrogation, but all the alien says is “She is back... Feed and grow... Your planet...’ It becomes evident that the aliens are retuming to reap what they failed to harvest 20 years ago. With only 22 minutes before the ship reaches Earth's surface, the world breaks into panic. The alien mothership is so massive that it has its own gravity! Earth falls into its gravitational field and objects start to ‘lose’ gravity. At first, people are sucked into the skies and cars are pulled from the ground. As the ship moves closer, it literally rips buildings out of the ground and we see bridges flying into oblivion - it's utter chaos. The whole city of Singapore flies up into the air! Meanwhile, Jake and his crew are racing through the debris to retum and tell the White House about the wormholes and the mysterious symbol. Suddenly, the mothership's gravity reverses and everything starts falling back to earth! Patricia watches on in disbelief as her fiancée Jake literally dodges a falling Big Ben and the Burj Khalifa tower of Dubai collapsing onto Paris, all while tumbling through the sky.

When Jake finally steers the aircraft back to Earth and safely lands, Patricia sprints over to him- slapping him for not listening to her and then giving him a huge kiss, joyous that he is not dead. David, joined by his father Julius (Judd Hirsch), immediately brings the artifacts to the lab at Area 51 for Dr. Okun to inspect it, but it is too late. The alien mothership has already landed and begun drilling into the Earth's molten core: the source of the energy it came to harvest. The impact of the mothership's landing in the Atlantic Ocean sends ripples all over the world, propelling gigantic tsunamis of hundreds of feet towards the East Coast. Meanwhile, David has been studying the behavior of aliens on an infra-red detection screen, and discovers that the aliens are structured like a beehive - all of the lowly fighters they've encountered so far are being controlled by a Queen Alien, a hideous, gargantuan creature represented by a giant red dot on the infra-red screen. At this point, David realizes that they can only defeat the aliens by defeating the Queen. In order to do so, they must improvise something similar to David's plan 20 years ago: first, they must drop cold fusion bombs using a convoy of drones to distract the aliens and lead the Queen in the wrong direction. Then, Dylan and Jake will lead a fleet of military fighters flying cutting-edge ships to destroy the Queen from behind enemy lines. The two pilots continue to quarrel over their disagreements but inevitably agree to join forces on the perilous mission for the greater good. The attack is launched and the plan is set into motion. The fusion bombs are dropped, instantly evaporating the alien fighter shields on impact. Chinese and Russian fighterjets swoop in and engage the aliens in airfare combat, dodging and maneuvering laser beams in acrobatic fashion. This creates the perfect distraction for Dylan and Jake, who lead the charge into the alien mothership. All of a sudden, however, their lights and power go out, and they start falling, out of control, into the belly of the mothership - the Queen has deliberately lead them there to destroy them! Dylan manages to jimmy the lights on his jet during the fall and catches a glimpse of the 200 feet tall beast looming over all of the hopeless human fighters. David can't believe that they have taken bait to the Queen's trap - it has yet again outsmarted them! - while Dylan and Jake realize they need to set aside their frictions and work together to save themselves out of this giant alien ship before the Queen attacks. Back at Area 51, Dr. Okun and ex-President Whitmore are working their magic on the wreckage of the first spaceship and they discover a shattering truth about the universe, but it all seems to be happening too late. The aliens that have been imprisoned since the first attack in 1996 have risen up and broken free to join the fight and protect their Queen. Time is ticking, and unless an incredible concerted effort sparks a miracle to overcome the alien ambush, it will be doomsday for all the helpless people on Earth...

ZesPak

24,421 posts

195 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
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Wow, thread revival, just re-read my post from 2013:

ZesPak said:
I'll probably go see the new After Earth as well, and if it doesn't pan out it could be the last father-son combo of them I watched in the cinema, which will eventually mean that Will has less viewers with him+his son as he would have alone. For everybody moaning in this thread, vote with your money because that's all this is about. If they make a 200mil $ movie, they're not going to risk a lot of audience by putting some actor's kid in. For now, Will Smith is an audience puller, if they notice that his son in return nullifies this "ability", the call from the studio is quickly made.
I can now rephrase that.
ZesPak said:
I went to see After Earth, and it's the last father-son combo of them I watched in the cinema, which will eventually mean that Will has less viewers with him+his son as he would have alone. For everybody moaning in this thread, vote with your money because that's all this is about. If they make a 200mil $ movie, they're not going to risk a lot of audience by putting some actor's kid in. For now, Will Smith is an audience puller, if they notice that his son in return nullifies this "ability", the call from the studio is quickly made.
And avoid After Earth at all costs.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
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MocMocaMoc said:
It was the flag waving, all conquering Americans the aliens initially kicked in - the Americans, as the most capable super power on Earth, were near powerless against the invaders.
Actually it wasn't.

It was a worldwide coordinated attack by the aliens - hence the reason for the whole "line of sight", "bouncing signals off our satellites" plot point.

The first sighting of an alien ship entering earth's atmosphere was actually over Russia or Khazakstan or somewhere like that (as seen in news reports in the movie).

I think it's mentioned in the movie that there were around 36 "city killer" ships in total all over the globe. Cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Rome etc are all destroyed in the first wave




Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 6th April 20:14

ClockworkCupcake

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
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Moonhawk said:
MocMocaMoc said:
It was the flag waving, all conquering Americans the aliens initially kicked in - the Americans, as the most capable super power on Earth, were near powerless against the invaders.
Actually it wasn't.

It was a worldwide coordinated attack by the aliens - hence the reason for the whole "line of sight", "bouncing signals off our satellites" plot point.

The first sighting of an alien ship entering earth's atmosphere was actually over Russia or Khazakstan or somewhere like that (as seen in news reports in the movie).

I think it's mentioned in the movie that there were around 36 "city killer" ships in total all over the globe. Cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Rome etc are all destroyed in the first wave
Having said that, it was very clearly the Americans who co-ordinated the counter-attack and saved the world.

British Radio Operator: "It's Morse Code, Sir! It's the Americans!"
British Officer: "Thank God!"

I kid you not. I groaned at that bit and so did a lot of other people in the cinema.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
quotequote all
ClockworkCupcake said:
Having said that, it was very clearly the Americans who co-ordinated the counter-attack and saved the world.

British Radio Operator: "It's Morse Code, Sir! It's the Americans!"
British Officer: "Thank God!"

I kid you not. I groaned at that bit and so did a lot of other people in the cinema.
Yep 'merica saves the world. Just like they did when they stole the enigma machine and taught our spitfire pilots how to dogfight in WW2 wink

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 6th April 23:01

Guvernator

13,105 posts

164 months

Thursday 7th April 2016
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And I always find it surprising when people are surprised at all the flag waving. It's a movie made in America by American's, a country who by dint of previous mistakes like Vietnam and all the backlash that caused, now hosts a population who are hugely proud of their military and are 150% behind them and their "war on terror".

If you want to watch an American military based film that doesn't flag wave, you are living in the wrong decade I'm afraid, they went through their "war is hell, the military is rubbish" hand-wringing phase about 3 decades ago and are now out the other side.

I think anyone in Hollywood who made a military film which didn't flag wave in the current climate would probably be labelled a terrorist.

Nom de ploom

4,890 posts

173 months

Thursday 7th April 2016
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well spotted...


Jingoistic americans make jingoistic film shock.

Hollywood has been making the same ste for the cinema going public for years and we lap it up.

not that long ago Top Gun was exaclty the same. before that Apocalypse Now and countless depictions of history tailored to feed the hunger - U571 anyone?

the fact that its loosely sci-fi and completely without factual grounds for pretty much the entire movie gives it complete artistic licence imho. who you going to complain to?

The bit that offended me more than a few excited americans was the idea that you could fly into space from a horizontal launch and just "upload a virus" hehe





ClockworkCupcake

74,402 posts

271 months

Thursday 7th April 2016
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Nom de ploom said:
before that Apocalypse Now
I broadly agree with the rest of your post, but I don't see how Apocalypse Now deserves to be tarred with the same brush. I seem to remember it was pretty factual, or at least consistent with reality.

Nom de ploom

4,890 posts

173 months

Thursday 7th April 2016
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I meant from the POV of the jingoism. scenes now revered and lauded like the charlie don't surf scene for me on reflection do feel a tad over cooked...

its an odd one as the film deals with quite a tight specific plot within a much broader conflict and other than a few large stagings like the helicopters and the bridge scene is small scale and focussed.

there were certainly elements that felt pretty real and factual. I've tried to read heart of darkness a few times but never got very far.


Mansells Tash

5,713 posts

205 months

Monday 25th April 2016
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Anyone seen the new trailer? This looks EPIC! It also looks like the plot spoiler I posted above is neigh on perfectly aligned with the actual story.

FourWheelDrift

88,381 posts

283 months

Monday 25th April 2016
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ClockworkCupcake said:
Having said that, it was very clearly the Americans who co-ordinated the counter-attack and saved the world.

British Radio Operator: "It's Morse Code, Sir! It's the Americans!"
British Officer: "Thank God!"

I kid you not. I groaned at that bit and so did a lot of other people in the cinema.
"It's from the Americans. They want to organize a counter offensive."
"It's about bloody time. What do they plan to do?"

Because everyone else in the world is thick and can't do anything without the American's permission.

And the F-16 in RAF markings behind them. They couldn't even CGI in a Tornado.


Mansells Tash

5,713 posts

205 months

Monday 25th April 2016
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let it go....ALIENS AND EXPLOSIONS!!!! biggrin

funkyrobot

18,789 posts

227 months

Monday 25th April 2016
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The trailers seem good for this film. Looks like a good brain removed yarn.

marcosgt

11,011 posts

175 months

Monday 25th April 2016
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ClockworkCupcake said:
Nom de ploom said:
before that Apocalypse Now
I broadly agree with the rest of your post, but I don't see how Apocalypse Now deserves to be tarred with the same brush. I seem to remember it was pretty factual, or at least consistent with reality.
I agree, I don't really see The Deer Hunter or even the original Rambo movie as particularly jingoistic...

That said, it's no great surprise that ID2 will be just as jingoistic as the original movie - It's B-Movie fun.

M.

Edited by marcosgt on Monday 25th April 16:26

dudleybloke

19,718 posts

185 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Centurion07

Original Poster:

10,381 posts

246 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Made my mind up now.

If I wanted to see that much over-the-top CGI I'd just go and play a video game.

Thumbs down from me.

FourWheelDrift

88,381 posts

283 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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4m36s trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXHN0sGbXfw

you don't need to see the film now.

Evolved

3,554 posts

186 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Crap film the first time around and no doubt be crap the second time around.

texaxile

3,289 posts

149 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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JonRB said:
Indeed. I know the bit you mean. Cut to British forces...
"It's Morse code, Sir. It's the Americans."
"Oh thank god!"

Do sod off.
"Late as usual" might have been more apt.

I'll be giving this steaming turd a miss, the only redeeming thing about the last one was Will Smith's Mrs as the token black girl bit of eye candy plus Brent Spiners small part, otherwise it was (IMO) tripe .


Edited by texaxile on Wednesday 15th June 21:20