So, Batman to appear in man of steel sequel...
Discussion
Beefmeister said:
Bale has categorically stated he will not do another Batman film. Given how moralistic and dare I say, pretentious Bale can be I can't see him going back on such a strong statement as that.
I believe he said he definitely wouldn't do another UNLESS Nolan was on board.
Let me try to expand my eloquent previous post.
Batman is pretty decent when he is on his own but he never comfortably fit into the rest of the superpowered DC universe IMO. He might have a cool backstory and the oh so popular "darkness" to his character but when you place him in a setting where he shares time with "real" superheroes with powers, he always came off as the poor relation to me. Yes DC have bent themselves into pretzel shapes trying to make a human hero relevant in a superpowered world but it always jarred with me and always came over like an overprotective adult making excuses for the fat kid who isn't good at sports, in a word he always felt outclassed and only some crazy comic book logic dreamt up by DC kept kept one of their most popular characters in anyway relevant in the wider DC universe. Think of him like Kick-A*s except without the tongue-in-cheek of that character and I think you can see the problem.
This problem has become doubly exasperated since Nolan took Batman down the properly "realistic" path which lots of people loved but which has led them to an even bigger and inevitable dead end in terms of the wider DC world.
To try to now shoehorn Batman into the new Superman franchise, a character who is the epitome of unrealistic and off the scale superpowers, in effect the complete opposite of the now established Batman character is a huge mistake IMO.
Even the oh so good Avengers had a bit of a struggle in balancing and making relevant the human characters alongside the god like beings like Thor and Hulk. Josh Whedon was semi successful but even there, at times they still felt a little tacked on and he is a much better director then Snyder.
So the chances of a Batman\Superman mash up being anything but a huge mistake...zero IMO.
Batman is pretty decent when he is on his own but he never comfortably fit into the rest of the superpowered DC universe IMO. He might have a cool backstory and the oh so popular "darkness" to his character but when you place him in a setting where he shares time with "real" superheroes with powers, he always came off as the poor relation to me. Yes DC have bent themselves into pretzel shapes trying to make a human hero relevant in a superpowered world but it always jarred with me and always came over like an overprotective adult making excuses for the fat kid who isn't good at sports, in a word he always felt outclassed and only some crazy comic book logic dreamt up by DC kept kept one of their most popular characters in anyway relevant in the wider DC universe. Think of him like Kick-A*s except without the tongue-in-cheek of that character and I think you can see the problem.
This problem has become doubly exasperated since Nolan took Batman down the properly "realistic" path which lots of people loved but which has led them to an even bigger and inevitable dead end in terms of the wider DC world.
To try to now shoehorn Batman into the new Superman franchise, a character who is the epitome of unrealistic and off the scale superpowers, in effect the complete opposite of the now established Batman character is a huge mistake IMO.
Even the oh so good Avengers had a bit of a struggle in balancing and making relevant the human characters alongside the god like beings like Thor and Hulk. Josh Whedon was semi successful but even there, at times they still felt a little tacked on and he is a much better director then Snyder.
So the chances of a Batman\Superman mash up being anything but a huge mistake...zero IMO.
There is a rich, modern history of Batman and Superman existing together via the comic source material. It operates on two premise. Firstly, Superman is light and Batman dark. batman views Superman as naive and altruistic, lacking the gumption to do what really needs to be done. He does respect him though. Batman is viewed as uncompromising and a jester tactician. This is the man ( comic wise) wholans for everything. Though he may be overpowered in terms of brute force, his strength is that he finds another way to win.
This is skewed for the films as we are now shown Superman willing to kill and apparently unconcerned for loss of life. Tasked with a script incorporating the two characters, I'd kick off with an appalled Bruce Wayne watching the annihalation of Metropolis from afar and wondering if it could happen to Gotham. He is approached by Luthor who is also enraged at the aliens destroying his city and the two pool resources to ensure it can't happen again. Some form of weapon is developed, then Bruce has a change of heart leaving Luthor and ( insert villain here) to face off against the neck snapper and Bats
This is skewed for the films as we are now shown Superman willing to kill and apparently unconcerned for loss of life. Tasked with a script incorporating the two characters, I'd kick off with an appalled Bruce Wayne watching the annihalation of Metropolis from afar and wondering if it could happen to Gotham. He is approached by Luthor who is also enraged at the aliens destroying his city and the two pool resources to ensure it can't happen again. Some form of weapon is developed, then Bruce has a change of heart leaving Luthor and ( insert villain here) to face off against the neck snapper and Bats
MiniMan64 said:
Do you think if the Avengers hadn't been such a runaway success then this wouldn't be getting a green light?
yep they are chasing Marvels coat tails.and with 'killing off' Batman and only just re-intoducing Supes they are on a hiding to nothing bringing them together in a the next DC film.
Batman was always the sort of super sleuth when part of the JLA, he had the contacts and tech to find things out, where as Superman flew fast and threw things into space. The issue with the film we have now, after the Nolan Bats and the Zack Supes is that Superman has fundamentally changed, he is now the grieving little angry man after seeing his dad die and has the ability to kill if pushed, and doesn't give 2 s
ts about the overall populace, Bruce Wayne was all about what is good for Gotham.
I saw a good cartoon that illustrated the issue a batman and Superman film would have been like, basically it sees batman and superman in the desert, batman has a magnifying glass gadget and is looking for clues at to where a terrorist etc base is, next panel superman uses xray vision to see the base under their feet, Batman is pissed at superman.
ts about the overall populace, Bruce Wayne was all about what is good for Gotham.I saw a good cartoon that illustrated the issue a batman and Superman film would have been like, basically it sees batman and superman in the desert, batman has a magnifying glass gadget and is looking for clues at to where a terrorist etc base is, next panel superman uses xray vision to see the base under their feet, Batman is pissed at superman.
Rick_1138 said:
I saw a good cartoon that illustrated the issue a batman and Superman film would have been like, basically it sees batman and superman in the desert, batman has a magnifying glass gadget and is looking for clues at to where a terrorist etc base is, next panel superman uses xray vision to see the base under their feet, Batman is pissed at superman.
This is my point, having what amounts to a God on your team pretty much makes Batman redundant. Having a superpowered God mixed in with Nolan's Batman makes this disparity even worse.The avengers film wasnt held back by them having a god on their team. I know what you mean though. Superman is a tough character to write well about. All star superman showed how it should be done a few years ago.
The JLA have great characters with a wide range of abilities. May not translate to a convincing film in a real world setting though.
The JLA have great characters with a wide range of abilities. May not translate to a convincing film in a real world setting though.
highway said:
The avengers film wasnt held back by them having a god on their team. I know what you mean though. Superman is a tough character to write well about. All star superman showed how it should be done a few years ago.
The JLA have great characters with a wide range of abilities. May not translate to a convincing film in a real world setting though.
As they are chasing Mavels offering though I just can't see it working. Avengers worked so well because a lot of ground work was laid in the previous films and everything slotted together perfectly in Avengers.The JLA have great characters with a wide range of abilities. May not translate to a convincing film in a real world setting though.
DC have seen that work and want to get in quick on the act but Nolans Batman is more of a hinderence than a help. Mavel always planned Avengers from the beginning and have an overall plan for the franchise. DC is just mashing together what they've got and can't really ignore Bales Batman because in the public consciousness he IS Batman in the same way Downey IS Ironman.
Problem is the Dark Knight trilogy was never planned as part of a larger universe so it's never going to fit right.
highway said:
The avengers film wasnt held back by them having a god on their team. I know what you mean though. Superman is a tough character to write well about. All star superman showed how it should be done a few years ago.
The JLA have great characters with a wide range of abilities. May not translate to a convincing film in a real world setting though.
The avengers was ok having a god on their team because they were also fighting a god...so all sort of worked out.The JLA have great characters with a wide range of abilities. May not translate to a convincing film in a real world setting though.
With Batman it was more based on human villains...not the supernatural/gods theme.
To do JLA they will have to go supernatural as well to have it make any sense.
Audiences are pretty fickle.
Marvel have got a good gameplan so far, but Sony and whomever owns the X-Men just seem to be throwing any old st at the screen. A Spidey reboot so soon, it seems to be motoring though (I've not seen the reboots).
DC might benefit from the lack of exposure of anyone who isn't Super/Batman.
Marvel have got a good gameplan so far, but Sony and whomever owns the X-Men just seem to be throwing any old s
t at the screen. A Spidey reboot so soon, it seems to be motoring though (I've not seen the reboots).DC might benefit from the lack of exposure of anyone who isn't Super/Batman.
Ben Affleck will be Batman http://www.imdb.com/news/ni56087514?mode=desktop
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