PQ 17: An Arctic Convoy Disaster - Jeremy Clarkson
Discussion
irocfan said:
Mr E said:
deltaevo16 said:
Seeing that ship do a fast turn was incredible.
Terrifying when it's a carrier;
It turned very quickly!
matchmaker said:
When I was in the RNLI we sometimes practiced man overboat drills. How to handbrake turn an Arun class lifeboat at 16 knots? From full ahead on both engines go straight into full astern on the port engine and put on full port helm.
It turned very quickly!
I got thrown overboard doing something similar a while back. My own fault of course.... Dislocated shoulder, eye watteringly expensive Breguet lost, very nearly blended into the Solent by the prop.... A disaster. I was very lucky to have come out of it ok. Not wearing a kill cord.... Major mistake. It turned very quickly!
I was thrown through the windscreen on a speedboat because my mate was showing off doing that.
I never realised how quickly a speedboat can stop when turned abruptly sideways, I just thought he was going to go up onto the beach!
Quick trip to A&E (Spain) and stitches into my arm. Wrecked his windscreen though.
I never realised how quickly a speedboat can stop when turned abruptly sideways, I just thought he was going to go up onto the beach!
Quick trip to A&E (Spain) and stitches into my arm. Wrecked his windscreen though.
FourWheelDrift said:
Dark black line, Home Fleet (inc HMS Duke of York, USS Washington and HMS Victorious)
Thinner black solid line are the cruisers
Doesn't look as if the Home Fleet was ever meant to go the full distance, just part of the way there for PQ-17 and then pick up QP-13 on the way back.
Right, I have watched again and paid a bit more attention. Thinner black solid line are the cruisers
Doesn't look as if the Home Fleet was ever meant to go the full distance, just part of the way there for PQ-17 and then pick up QP-13 on the way back.
The talking heads from the escort all seemed surprised by the decision to remove the escort - if it were pre-ordained the response would not have been such surely? Also the language used in the signal 'withdraw...at high speed' implies that it was not a planned order.
Also, I think Clarkson over-eggs the Tirpitz. Huge threat of course - but the talk of invincibility was IMHO TV puff, don't forget the RN and Air force sunk its sister ship...
I said earlier, I do tend to give the command benefit of the doubt. However, Pound jumped at one intelligence report, broadly flying the face of all the RN's recognised sources.
I was wrong to call it an intelligence failure earlier, I wasn't listening hard enough first time round. The normal British routes sound like they were bang on the money.
Pistom said:
JC is a very experienced journalist and I'm sure he and the BBC have faced similar claims in the past from those needing publicity for their own causes.NDA said:
JC is a very experienced journalist and I'm sure he and the BBC have faced similar claims in the past from those needing publicity for their own causes.
I agree. From what I make of it, the issue is that Irving wasn't credited for what he claims was his research. The difficulty in making programs like this is that material that has been researched by others get used. No point reinventing the wheel though in my opinion. I suspect that once The Mirror get onto this, they will be calling for the death penalty to be brought back for JC.
I'm not sure Irving is necessarily looking for publicity though. He probably feels genuinely aggrieved. I have a good friend who has a long career in specialist journalism. His work gets rehashed by others all the time but his view is that it's no big deal. He certainly wouldn't seek financial recompense or even be bothered with recognition.
I suppose that's the grown up respectable way of dealing with it rather than jumping on the claim culture bandwagon.
NDA said:
Pistom said:
JC is a very experienced journalist and I'm sure he and the BBC have faced similar claims in the past from those needing publicity for their own causes.Obviously some of the Irving issue will hinge upon whether there are passages which are word for word the same as in his book.
He harms his own argument by alleging that Clarkson made it all about himself, JC, and didn't pay sufficient homage to the real heroes. Clearly he, Irving, appears to have selective vision.
He harms his own argument by alleging that Clarkson made it all about himself, JC, and didn't pay sufficient homage to the real heroes. Clearly he, Irving, appears to have selective vision.
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