Discussion
Halb said:
John Oliver had a wonderful piece on wrestlers/wwe this week on Last Week Tonight.
excellent
vid starts at start of piece.excellent
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver 03/31/19 (HBO)
https://youtu.be/5OSFJRXHPHI?t=382
soad said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
A man who suffered one the worst injuries I've ever seen in a sports (entertainment) match, but still carried on and did the planned finish
Made me think of Sid Vicious leg break, rather sick. 
A Winner Is You said:
That was horrendous to watch, and all he did was jump down a short distance.
Psycho Sid on his WCW Leg Injury: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyp9wkbq1oIf you watch the documentary you will understand why he hasn't. a constant circle of "chasing the dragon", has a bad match wants to redeem himself.
That's why he's decided to after AJ Styles match, despite not being an in ring match, he was happy with it.
Plus Vince keeps trying to drag him back.
That's why he's decided to after AJ Styles match, despite not being an in ring match, he was happy with it.
Plus Vince keeps trying to drag him back.
AJB88 said:
If you watch the documentary you will understand why he hasn't. a constant circle of "chasing the dragon", has a bad match wants to redeem himself.
That's why he's decided to after AJ Styles match, despite not being an in ring match, he was happy with it.
Plus Vince keeps trying to drag him back.
Unfortunately, the desire to go one will never overcome the ageing process. As with Kurt Angle, his last few matches were hard to watch, but at least the boneyard match was able to work around those limitations and be very enjoyable. That's why he's decided to after AJ Styles match, despite not being an in ring match, he was happy with it.
Plus Vince keeps trying to drag him back.
A Winner Is You said:
Unfortunately, the desire to go one will never overcome the ageing process. As with Kurt Angle, his last few matches were hard to watch, but at least the boneyard match was able to work around those limitations and be very enjoyable.
Yeh I've watched it since and really enjoyed it, I didn't know until watching the documentary that Undertaker is a big fan of AJ Styles, so was happy to work with him. Michelle (shes mates with AJ's wife) didn't realise the build up was going to get so personal. I thought The Last Ride was a great documentary. It was good to see the ma behind the character, especially since Undertaker in many ways was one of the defenders of kayfabe for so long even after it died.
Mark had a fantastic career and developed his character perfectly. I recall hearing on his Broken Skull Sessions appearance how he had to stop the high-speed technical stuff he was doing as "Mean Mark Calaway" in order to fit into the Undertaker role. Still, his athletic ability was obvious, especially in the 90s when he could really move when he had to. His matches in Saudi Arabia against Goldberg and DX were awful, but I don't blame him for trying to get one more big match to go out on.
The thing I took away from it was just how much Mark loves the business. I'd heard the stories of how he was a locker room godfather, how he waited backstage at Wrestlemania 98 to make sure Shawn Michaels didn't go off-script against Steve Austin, the BSK crew etc and all that seems backed up by the documentary. The guy has worked hard, no doubt endured a huge amount of travel, tiredness and pain and given so much to the fans, so he has earned, more than anyone else in the business I think, to retire comfortably and happily.
I watched WWF and WCW avidly in the late 90s, I got into WWF right after the Montreal screwjob, right as Steve Austin became the most "over" wrestler of all time, a title I think he retains, before I stopped in the early 00s as WWF started to lose their way during the Invasion era. By the Ruthless Agression era, I was gone and only kept up with it in passing.
I never got to see that much of Shawn Michaels, but having gotten back into WWF earlier this year and staring to watch every PPV, Raw and Smackdown in chronological order from November 1997 onwards, I see now why everyone said he was amazing. Undertaker said he thought AJ Styles was like a modern Shawn Michaels but I dont see it.
Shawn's storytelling and his agility, timing and balance were superb in the 90s. He could sell a move like nobody else. His persona was great too, especially in the early days of D-Generation X when they were more mischievous and funny, their promos were amazing. I always liked DX, but when Shawn retired with a knackered back in esrl 98 I think WWF didn't know what to do with Hunter at the helm (excuse the pun) and turned them into kind of a heel-ish group, then Hunter, the most injury-prone superstar WWF/E have ever had, sat most of 1998 out with injuries. I've heard Shawn had some great matches in his second run with WWE so I'm looking forward to getting to those.
When I watch the modern stuff, I do worry for the future of the company. The backstage finances (Vince apparently leveraged WWE money into his second XFL attempt, which has now come to light after it failed and now shareholders are wondering why they investment was gambled on this risky passion project), the squeaky-clean presentation and the lack of exciting new stars makes for an enjoyable if not amazing product.
The women's wrestling is now very good and way, way better than it ever has been, Drew McIntyre has the look of a champion, is good on the mic and exciting to watch, but who is there to fight? Kevin Owens and Seth Rollins are good even if the super tightly-scripted promos are boring. Bobby Lashley is still awful and will never get over with the fans. Otis is good fun. Braun Strowman is a monster and one of the guys I think could have slotted into the super competitive Attitude Era and still looked good.
Maybe the crowds are part of the problem. While the Attitude era had that crazy energy and the "anything could happen" feel, the crowds went absolutely crazy and there was so much energy. Now when I watch WWEs current stuff, the crowd are so quiet, everyone is trying to film the event on their phones or literally just staring at their screen and ignoring the action entirely.
I think Vince McMahon needs to loosen his grip, stop trying to curate everything in his personal vision and let the superstars lead a little more, like they did in the 90s. Steve Austin, The Rock and DX were all massively popular and all were mostly characters created by the actors playing them. Remember the transition from Rocky Maivia to The Rock? One of the most hated wreslters in history to one of the most popular - that was entirely the doing of Dwayne Johnson because he was sick of playing that awful babyface that managment wanted and the fans completely rejected. You'll never get another success story like that if you don't give these guys some freedom to run with the mic and the camera and make some magic happen.
Mark had a fantastic career and developed his character perfectly. I recall hearing on his Broken Skull Sessions appearance how he had to stop the high-speed technical stuff he was doing as "Mean Mark Calaway" in order to fit into the Undertaker role. Still, his athletic ability was obvious, especially in the 90s when he could really move when he had to. His matches in Saudi Arabia against Goldberg and DX were awful, but I don't blame him for trying to get one more big match to go out on.
The thing I took away from it was just how much Mark loves the business. I'd heard the stories of how he was a locker room godfather, how he waited backstage at Wrestlemania 98 to make sure Shawn Michaels didn't go off-script against Steve Austin, the BSK crew etc and all that seems backed up by the documentary. The guy has worked hard, no doubt endured a huge amount of travel, tiredness and pain and given so much to the fans, so he has earned, more than anyone else in the business I think, to retire comfortably and happily.
I watched WWF and WCW avidly in the late 90s, I got into WWF right after the Montreal screwjob, right as Steve Austin became the most "over" wrestler of all time, a title I think he retains, before I stopped in the early 00s as WWF started to lose their way during the Invasion era. By the Ruthless Agression era, I was gone and only kept up with it in passing.
I never got to see that much of Shawn Michaels, but having gotten back into WWF earlier this year and staring to watch every PPV, Raw and Smackdown in chronological order from November 1997 onwards, I see now why everyone said he was amazing. Undertaker said he thought AJ Styles was like a modern Shawn Michaels but I dont see it.
Shawn's storytelling and his agility, timing and balance were superb in the 90s. He could sell a move like nobody else. His persona was great too, especially in the early days of D-Generation X when they were more mischievous and funny, their promos were amazing. I always liked DX, but when Shawn retired with a knackered back in esrl 98 I think WWF didn't know what to do with Hunter at the helm (excuse the pun) and turned them into kind of a heel-ish group, then Hunter, the most injury-prone superstar WWF/E have ever had, sat most of 1998 out with injuries. I've heard Shawn had some great matches in his second run with WWE so I'm looking forward to getting to those.
When I watch the modern stuff, I do worry for the future of the company. The backstage finances (Vince apparently leveraged WWE money into his second XFL attempt, which has now come to light after it failed and now shareholders are wondering why they investment was gambled on this risky passion project), the squeaky-clean presentation and the lack of exciting new stars makes for an enjoyable if not amazing product.
The women's wrestling is now very good and way, way better than it ever has been, Drew McIntyre has the look of a champion, is good on the mic and exciting to watch, but who is there to fight? Kevin Owens and Seth Rollins are good even if the super tightly-scripted promos are boring. Bobby Lashley is still awful and will never get over with the fans. Otis is good fun. Braun Strowman is a monster and one of the guys I think could have slotted into the super competitive Attitude Era and still looked good.
Maybe the crowds are part of the problem. While the Attitude era had that crazy energy and the "anything could happen" feel, the crowds went absolutely crazy and there was so much energy. Now when I watch WWEs current stuff, the crowd are so quiet, everyone is trying to film the event on their phones or literally just staring at their screen and ignoring the action entirely.
I think Vince McMahon needs to loosen his grip, stop trying to curate everything in his personal vision and let the superstars lead a little more, like they did in the 90s. Steve Austin, The Rock and DX were all massively popular and all were mostly characters created by the actors playing them. Remember the transition from Rocky Maivia to The Rock? One of the most hated wreslters in history to one of the most popular - that was entirely the doing of Dwayne Johnson because he was sick of playing that awful babyface that managment wanted and the fans completely rejected. You'll never get another success story like that if you don't give these guys some freedom to run with the mic and the camera and make some magic happen.
One of the problems with current WWE is it's obvious how scripted much of it is, such as Vince banning certain words (WWE Universe instead of crowd or audience, sports entertainer instead of wrestler etc). I mostly watch AEW now, who give their roster a lot more freedom so it feels much more natural and grown up. NXT UK was really good, but alas current conditions have meant no new episodes for months.
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