Discussion
ts'! GetCarter said:
Lots of people buy The Sun. 
I rest my case.
I bet very few Sun readers go anywhere near musicals. I rest my case.Over the two and a half decades I have been involved in musicals, I have seen the audience numbers drop off. 25 years ago we could fill a 500 seater hall for 7 performances with no real effort to sell tickets.
We are doing very well now to achieve 70% box office.
And I am not going to assert the modern audiences are somehow more intelligent and discerning than perhaps their forebears. I would almost argue the opposite.
But what has happened is that culture has changed - and the under 50s do find the concept of musicals a bit alien. That is due, as I pointed out, to their sources of popular music being from rock, pop, folk, rap and other idioms - and NOT from shows.
In fact, I am seeing a decline in attendances not only in musicals, but almost ANY form of live music - especially at local level. It does seem that the only "draw" that seems to attract an audience is when the show or performance is by a "name" of some sort. In other words, it's not the content that is the draw, it is the performer.
Eric Mc said:
I bet very few Sun readers go anywhere near musicals.
Over the two and a half decades I have been involved in musicals, I have seen the audience numbers drop off. 25 years ago we could fill a 500 seater hall for 7 performances with no real effort to sell tickets.
We are doing very well now to achieve 70% box office.
And I am not going to assert the modern audiences are somehow more intelligent and discerning than perhaps their forebears. I would almost argue the opposite.
But what has happened is that culture has changed - and the under 50s do find the concept of musicals a bit alien. That is due, as I pointed out, to their sources of popular music being from rock, pop, folk, rap and other idioms - and NOT from shows.
In fact, I am seeing a decline in attendances not only in musicals, but almost ANY form of live music - especially at local level. It does seem that the only "draw" that seems to attract an audience is when the show or performance is by a "name" of some sort. In other words, it's not the content that is the draw, it is the performer.
Like others in here, I have a problem with people spontaneously bursting into song. The 'willing suspension of disbelief' is much harder to come by these days. Folk are more savvy. Over the two and a half decades I have been involved in musicals, I have seen the audience numbers drop off. 25 years ago we could fill a 500 seater hall for 7 performances with no real effort to sell tickets.
We are doing very well now to achieve 70% box office.
And I am not going to assert the modern audiences are somehow more intelligent and discerning than perhaps their forebears. I would almost argue the opposite.
But what has happened is that culture has changed - and the under 50s do find the concept of musicals a bit alien. That is due, as I pointed out, to their sources of popular music being from rock, pop, folk, rap and other idioms - and NOT from shows.
In fact, I am seeing a decline in attendances not only in musicals, but almost ANY form of live music - especially at local level. It does seem that the only "draw" that seems to attract an audience is when the show or performance is by a "name" of some sort. In other words, it's not the content that is the draw, it is the performer.
My best mate is the MD / conductor on the most successful musical in the West End, (15 years this week) and people go there for a sing along, not a cathartic theatrical experience.
I am not surprised that audiences are falling for musicals. It's an outdated genre that will almost certainly really struggle, unless it's known tunes in a pro 'slap up' full on West End experience.
It's a shame, just like the music hall, variety & circus demise was a shame. But it's happening. As you say, under 50's find it alien.
Full on West End blockbusters will undoubtedly live on... as a spectacle, for tourists and those wanting a thrill and immediate gratification. A bit like The Sun
All IMHO of course.
Eric Mc said:
GetCarter said:
I like one musical. (West Side Story), but only as the orchestral music score is stunning. The rest of musicals should be in room 101.
A bit harsh considering there are literally hundreds of the things.(and I'm not going to grace that statement with IMVHO
).My son is a composer/performer/MD and has been in West End and Broadway productions, and he dislikes musicals too.
As an aside, both my late father and my daughter were professionally involved in opera and they too thought that the idea of breaking into song was extremely silly.
GetCarter said:
Like others in here, I have a problem with people spontaneously bursting into song. The 'willing suspension of disbelief' is much harder to come by these days. Folk are more savvy.
My best mate is the MD / conductor on the most successful musical in the West End, (15 years this week) and people go there for a sing along, not a cathartic theatrical experience.
I am not surprised that audiences are falling for musicals. It's an outdated genre that will almost certainly really struggle, unless it's known tunes in a pro 'slap up' full on West End experience.
It's a shame, just like the music hall, variety & circus demise was a shame. But it's happening. As you say, under 50's find it alien.
Full on West End blockbusters will undoubtedly live on... as a spectacle, for tourists and those wanting a thrill and immediate gratification. A bit like The Sun
All IMHO of course.
I actually DON'T think it's a dying genre at all. In fact, at the top end of the market it is growing - with Hollywood becoming more and more interested in doing new musicals.My best mate is the MD / conductor on the most successful musical in the West End, (15 years this week) and people go there for a sing along, not a cathartic theatrical experience.
I am not surprised that audiences are falling for musicals. It's an outdated genre that will almost certainly really struggle, unless it's known tunes in a pro 'slap up' full on West End experience.
It's a shame, just like the music hall, variety & circus demise was a shame. But it's happening. As you say, under 50's find it alien.
Full on West End blockbusters will undoubtedly live on... as a spectacle, for tourists and those wanting a thrill and immediate gratification. A bit like The Sun
All IMHO of course.
Where it is struggling is at local level - for the factors I mentioned above.
What audiences chose to suspend when it comes to disbelief is nothing to do with how "real" a drama is - it's to do with education and culture. And I don't mean "education" in a schooling or intellectual sense, but what people have been "educated" to like and accept.
And what they have been exposed to in their formative years.
As you say, people have a problem with actors bursting into song in the middle of a performance - but do they have a problem with an actor delivering a spoken soliloquy to the audience or to camera? That is unnatural and not what happens in real life, but somehow it is more acceptable.
And some of the most popular films and TV shows these days are fantasy and magic themed shows. They are not realistic either - but the audience is perfectly prepared to suspend reality when watching something like that.
Musicals will never disappear. their popularity will wax and wane - like most art forms.
Eric Mc said:
I actually DON'T think it's a dying genre at all. In fact, at the top end of the market it is growing - with Hollywood becoming more and more interested in doing new musicals.
Where it is struggling is at local level - for the factors I mentioned above.
What audiences chose to suspend when it comes to disbelief is nothing to do with how "real" a drama is - it's to do with education and culture. And I don't mean "education" in a schooling or intellectual sense, but what people have been "educated" to like and accept.
And what they have been exposed to in their formative years.
As you say, people have a problem with actors bursting into song in the middle of a performance - but do they have a problem with an actor delivering a spoken soliloquy to the audience or to camera? That is unnatural and not what happens in real life, but somehow it is more acceptable.
And some of the most popular films and TV shows these days are fantasy and magic themed shows. They are not realistic either - but the audience is perfectly prepared to suspend reality when watching something like that.
Musicals will never disappear. their popularity will wax and wane - like most art forms.
Well as you are involved in them I hope you are right, but you say:Where it is struggling is at local level - for the factors I mentioned above.
What audiences chose to suspend when it comes to disbelief is nothing to do with how "real" a drama is - it's to do with education and culture. And I don't mean "education" in a schooling or intellectual sense, but what people have been "educated" to like and accept.
And what they have been exposed to in their formative years.
As you say, people have a problem with actors bursting into song in the middle of a performance - but do they have a problem with an actor delivering a spoken soliloquy to the audience or to camera? That is unnatural and not what happens in real life, but somehow it is more acceptable.
And some of the most popular films and TV shows these days are fantasy and magic themed shows. They are not realistic either - but the audience is perfectly prepared to suspend reality when watching something like that.
Musicals will never disappear. their popularity will wax and wane - like most art forms.
"Over the two and a half decades I have been involved in musicals, I have seen the audience numbers drop off. 25 years ago we could fill a 500 seater hall for 7 performances with no real effort to sell tickets".
I think the decline will continue.
At local level.
But not at full-on West End/Broadway Hollywood level.
And, if the latter does provide a renewed impetus to musicals, it MIGHT have a knock on benefit at local level - but that may be just wishful thinking on my behalf.
Which is a real pity as some amateur groups can provide top class quality at very good prices.
But not at full-on West End/Broadway Hollywood level.
And, if the latter does provide a renewed impetus to musicals, it MIGHT have a knock on benefit at local level - but that may be just wishful thinking on my behalf.
Which is a real pity as some amateur groups can provide top class quality at very good prices.
Sadly 
I think musicals will survive even at local level - but groups like ours may well have to be less ambitious in what we do.
At the moment, it costs us on average between £25,000 and £27,000 to mount a show. It's very, very difficult to cover our costs at that level of expenditure.
Musicals are difficult, demanding and often very complex.
Musical theatre is the one stage discipline where virtually every stage performance skill is required - musical scoring and arrangement, singing, dancing, acting, lighting, sound, sets, props etc all have to be brought together in a (hopefully) seamless one.
But the great thing is that these shows are great fun and are very rewarding to do.
I think musicals will survive even at local level - but groups like ours may well have to be less ambitious in what we do.
At the moment, it costs us on average between £25,000 and £27,000 to mount a show. It's very, very difficult to cover our costs at that level of expenditure.
Musicals are difficult, demanding and often very complex.
Musical theatre is the one stage discipline where virtually every stage performance skill is required - musical scoring and arrangement, singing, dancing, acting, lighting, sound, sets, props etc all have to be brought together in a (hopefully) seamless one.
But the great thing is that these shows are great fun and are very rewarding to do.
I do prefer the films, I prefer film as a medium.
But in recollection I realise I've been to a few local musicals too...Full Monty, which I didn't like but was supporting a mate (he was very good), Little Shop, which was ace, and Avenue Q which wasn't a local one, but a tour, but it was fantastic, well worth the epic car journey.
But in recollection I realise I've been to a few local musicals too...Full Monty, which I didn't like but was supporting a mate (he was very good), Little Shop, which was ace, and Avenue Q which wasn't a local one, but a tour, but it was fantastic, well worth the epic car journey.
We did The Full Monty a couple of years ago. There have been a couple of different musical versions of it written. The film, of course, wasn't a musical as such but did contain a number of notable songs.
The version we did was the first stage musical version where the action was shifted from Sheffield to Buffalo, New York. I actually thought that the shift in location didn't make such a big difference to the story and the sentiment of the original was retained.
None of the songs used in the original film are in this musical version, presumably because of copywrite issues.
The latest musical based on The Full Monty has moved the action back to Sheffield.
I'd like to do "Little Shop of Horrors" as I like that rock and roll/do-wop style of music but it has a relatively small cast so I don't think our society would be keen to do it for that reason.
The version we did was the first stage musical version where the action was shifted from Sheffield to Buffalo, New York. I actually thought that the shift in location didn't make such a big difference to the story and the sentiment of the original was retained.
None of the songs used in the original film are in this musical version, presumably because of copywrite issues.
The latest musical based on The Full Monty has moved the action back to Sheffield.
I'd like to do "Little Shop of Horrors" as I like that rock and roll/do-wop style of music but it has a relatively small cast so I don't think our society would be keen to do it for that reason.
I can see how it might - especially if you were expecting Sheffield accents.
Most of our audiences (which were pretty good for that show) really enjoyed it.
We actually made a decent profit on that one - the last show which did make a reasonable surplus, in fact.
We used the profits to make a £5,000 donation to help fund the purchase of a Bladder Scanner at our local hospital.
Most of our audiences (which were pretty good for that show) really enjoyed it.
We actually made a decent profit on that one - the last show which did make a reasonable surplus, in fact.
We used the profits to make a £5,000 donation to help fund the purchase of a Bladder Scanner at our local hospital.
Eric Mc said:
Do you go to local musical shows in your area - or do you just like musical films or West End productions?
All of them but west end is my favourite, although I don't go to live theatre as much as I would like. I keep meaning to make more of an effort but always forget. This thread and your earlier post has prompted me to have a look on my local theatre's website and check what coming up. edit: it seems not much that I fancy watching 
Edited by 897sma on Thursday 17th April 10:44
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