Discussion
If a stage version is different to the film version, then it can be a bit of a shock to the audience. I always try to prime my customers so that they are aware of any significant alterations.
About 20 years ago I went to a stage version of "Some Like it Hot" which starred Tommy Steele and Billy Boyle (one of Basil Brush's assistants in years gone by). I was really looking forward to it as "Some Like it Hot" is one of my favourite films. I was dreadfully disappointed.
NONE of the songs used in the film were in the show and the new replacement songs were dire to say the least.
On the other hand, the stage version of "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" is pretty much identical to the film version - as is the stage version of "Singin' in the Rain".
There is always a problem when translating a film into a stage musical. Even if the original film was itself a musical, the stage version does need to make some alterations to make the piece work on stage - and it will also probably need some new songs to increase the running time, as stage musicals tend to be 20 to 30 minutes longer than the original film.
The important thing is that any new songs inserted into the stage version have to follow the style of the original songs. Otherwise, the new songs will jar. That is why when stage versions of "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" and "Mary Poppins" were being written, the producers hired the surviving member of the Sherman brothers (who wrote the music for the original films) to write the new material for both shows.
About 20 years ago I went to a stage version of "Some Like it Hot" which starred Tommy Steele and Billy Boyle (one of Basil Brush's assistants in years gone by). I was really looking forward to it as "Some Like it Hot" is one of my favourite films. I was dreadfully disappointed.
NONE of the songs used in the film were in the show and the new replacement songs were dire to say the least.
On the other hand, the stage version of "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" is pretty much identical to the film version - as is the stage version of "Singin' in the Rain".
There is always a problem when translating a film into a stage musical. Even if the original film was itself a musical, the stage version does need to make some alterations to make the piece work on stage - and it will also probably need some new songs to increase the running time, as stage musicals tend to be 20 to 30 minutes longer than the original film.
The important thing is that any new songs inserted into the stage version have to follow the style of the original songs. Otherwise, the new songs will jar. That is why when stage versions of "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" and "Mary Poppins" were being written, the producers hired the surviving member of the Sherman brothers (who wrote the music for the original films) to write the new material for both shows.
I prefer being in them to watching them but I do enjoy the odd West End show.
As Eric says though, the production costs are starting to become impossible to recoup, and to me anyway, musicals need the spectacle to work - you need to see the money onstage. Otherwise it all just looks a bit care in the community as unfortunately, amateur societies tend not to have the quality of chorus you'd find in a pro show (by that I mean, every single person onstage in Phantom say, could carry a lead role quite easily whereas amateur shows suffer from having a very strong set of principles and a mixed bag in the chorus) and you need the opulent sets and effects to distract from that!
As Eric says though, the production costs are starting to become impossible to recoup, and to me anyway, musicals need the spectacle to work - you need to see the money onstage. Otherwise it all just looks a bit care in the community as unfortunately, amateur societies tend not to have the quality of chorus you'd find in a pro show (by that I mean, every single person onstage in Phantom say, could carry a lead role quite easily whereas amateur shows suffer from having a very strong set of principles and a mixed bag in the chorus) and you need the opulent sets and effects to distract from that!
Without wanting to sound big headed - but that is where the group I belong to scores really well. We have a very strong chorus - many of who have played principle roles with us or other societies.
Just to show it isn't me blowing our collective trumpet - this is a genuine e-mail we received a couple of weeks ago from a customer who came down from London to see our recent production of "The Producers" -
"What a show!
I emailed you last year congratulating you on 'The Sound of Music' and you've done it again. Wednesday's show was fantastic! I saw a professional production some years ago and I would say that your production is better, more cast, more glitz, more fun. The hard work you must have put into the rehearsals shows, especially in the 'Little Old Ladyland' dance routine, superb! The quality of the acting is so high it puts my meagre efforts to shame. And it was not just the cast, the band, as usual were perfect, the stage crew, well what can I say, so slick and dressed for the part as well".
Just to show it isn't me blowing our collective trumpet - this is a genuine e-mail we received a couple of weeks ago from a customer who came down from London to see our recent production of "The Producers" -
"What a show!
I emailed you last year congratulating you on 'The Sound of Music' and you've done it again. Wednesday's show was fantastic! I saw a professional production some years ago and I would say that your production is better, more cast, more glitz, more fun. The hard work you must have put into the rehearsals shows, especially in the 'Little Old Ladyland' dance routine, superb! The quality of the acting is so high it puts my meagre efforts to shame. And it was not just the cast, the band, as usual were perfect, the stage crew, well what can I say, so slick and dressed for the part as well".
Eric Mc said:
On the other hand, the stage version of "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" is pretty much identical to the film version - as is the stage version of "Singin' in the Rain".
Well that's because in both those cases the film came first and then someone later made a stage show of it, so they knew they had to keep more or less the same familiar songs in it or the theatre audiences would revolt and bad reviews result.Whereas in nearly all other cases of well known musicals, from Sound of Music, to Cabaret, Grease, West Side Story, Les Mis ... the stage musical came first (sometimes based on a pre-existing novel) and the film later. So the film version had the opportunity to change songs around or add/drop songs, to make what they saw as a better picture. Then subsequently the film version became more widely seen so people wrongly think they are the definitive versions.
Cabaret is the classic, loads of differences between the original Broadway show and the later film version!
kev1974 said:
Well that's because in both those cases the film came first and then someone later made a stage show of it, so they knew they had to keep more or less the same familiar songs in it or the theatre audiences would revolt and bad reviews result.
Whereas in nearly all other cases of well known musicals, from Sound of Music, to Cabaret, Grease, West Side Story, Les Mis ... the stage musical came first (sometimes based on a pre-existing novel) and the film later. So the film version had the opportunity to change songs around or add/drop songs, to make what they saw as a better picture. Then subsequently the film version became more widely seen so people wrongly think they are the definitive versions.
Cabaret is the classic, loads of differences between the original Broadway show and the later film version!
Precisely. The main problem with going from film to stage is running time. Movies are generally shorter and they have to be padded out to make an acceptable stage production. That usually entails writing some new songs. The new songs can seem a bit out of place if they are written 30 to 40 years after the original film and the original song writers have long since gone to that great music room in the sky.Whereas in nearly all other cases of well known musicals, from Sound of Music, to Cabaret, Grease, West Side Story, Les Mis ... the stage musical came first (sometimes based on a pre-existing novel) and the film later. So the film version had the opportunity to change songs around or add/drop songs, to make what they saw as a better picture. Then subsequently the film version became more widely seen so people wrongly think they are the definitive versions.
Cabaret is the classic, loads of differences between the original Broadway show and the later film version!
Whoever wrote the new songs for "Seven Brides" did a good job. Whoever did the new songs for "Calamity Jane" didn't do such a great job - although the show is still good fun.
There were virtually no original songs in "Singin' in the Rain" in the first place. The film made use of old 1920s standards - with only one exception ("Make 'em laugh" - which sounded awfully like "Be a Clown" anyway).
When it was re-written in the 1980s for stage, all they did was add a few more old 1920s songs.
Eric Mc said:
Without wanting to sound big headed - but that is where the group I belong to scores really well. We have a very strong chorus - many of who have played principle roles with us or other societies.
Just to show it isn't me blowing our collective trumpet - this is a genuine e-mail we received a couple of weeks ago from a customer who came down from London to see our recent production of "The Producers" -
"What a show!
I emailed you last year congratulating you on 'The Sound of Music' and you've done it again. Wednesday's show was fantastic! I saw a professional production some years ago and I would say that your production is better, more cast, more glitz, more fun. The hard work you must have put into the rehearsals shows, especially in the 'Little Old Ladyland' dance routine, superb! The quality of the acting is so high it puts my meagre efforts to shame. And it was not just the cast, the band, as usual were perfect, the stage crew, well what can I say, so slick and dressed for the part as well".
Ideal! And a nice letter to boot.Just to show it isn't me blowing our collective trumpet - this is a genuine e-mail we received a couple of weeks ago from a customer who came down from London to see our recent production of "The Producers" -
"What a show!
I emailed you last year congratulating you on 'The Sound of Music' and you've done it again. Wednesday's show was fantastic! I saw a professional production some years ago and I would say that your production is better, more cast, more glitz, more fun. The hard work you must have put into the rehearsals shows, especially in the 'Little Old Ladyland' dance routine, superb! The quality of the acting is so high it puts my meagre efforts to shame. And it was not just the cast, the band, as usual were perfect, the stage crew, well what can I say, so slick and dressed for the part as well".
I'd say our mob are pretty high standard as well but there's always a few exceptions and given that this is 'fun' rather than work, you can't cut them from the show!
This is us.
http://theatreguildglasgow.co.uk
We made a bit of a decision lately about whether to try and grow to fill the King's Theatre in Glasgow (1,700-odd seats) or to stay in a smaller venue and try and 'raise the bar' in terms of production quality. Another company almost bankrupting themselves with a barely sold run at The King's scared us well away from it!
http://theatreguildglasgow.co.uk
We made a bit of a decision lately about whether to try and grow to fill the King's Theatre in Glasgow (1,700-odd seats) or to stay in a smaller venue and try and 'raise the bar' in terms of production quality. Another company almost bankrupting themselves with a barely sold run at The King's scared us well away from it!
GetCarter said:
Like others in here, I have a problem with people spontaneously bursting into song. The 'willing suspension of disbelief' is much harder to come by these days. Folk are more savvy.
My best mate is the MD / conductor on the most successful musical in the West End, (15 years this week) and people go there for a sing along, not a cathartic theatrical experience.
I am not surprised that audiences are falling for musicals. It's an outdated genre that will almost certainly really struggle, unless it's known tunes in a pro 'slap up' full on West End experience.
It's a shame, just like the music hall, variety & circus demise was a shame. But it's happening. As you say, under 50's find it alien.
Full on West End blockbusters will undoubtedly live on... as a spectacle, for tourists and those wanting a thrill and immediate gratification. A bit like The Sun
All IMHO of course.
Mamma Mia?? Not one that I have done personally. What's the MDs name?My best mate is the MD / conductor on the most successful musical in the West End, (15 years this week) and people go there for a sing along, not a cathartic theatrical experience.
I am not surprised that audiences are falling for musicals. It's an outdated genre that will almost certainly really struggle, unless it's known tunes in a pro 'slap up' full on West End experience.
It's a shame, just like the music hall, variety & circus demise was a shame. But it's happening. As you say, under 50's find it alien.
Full on West End blockbusters will undoubtedly live on... as a spectacle, for tourists and those wanting a thrill and immediate gratification. A bit like The Sun
All IMHO of course.
Disastrous said:
This is us.
http://theatreguildglasgow.co.uk
We made a bit of a decision lately about whether to try and grow to fill the King's Theatre in Glasgow (1,700-odd seats) or to stay in a smaller venue and try and 'raise the bar' in terms of production quality. Another company almost bankrupting themselves with a barely sold run at The King's scared us well away from it!
1,700 seats is very ambitious. We put on our shows at The Princes Hall Aldershot - which these days has a normal maximum capacity of around 450.http://theatreguildglasgow.co.uk
We made a bit of a decision lately about whether to try and grow to fill the King's Theatre in Glasgow (1,700-odd seats) or to stay in a smaller venue and try and 'raise the bar' in terms of production quality. Another company almost bankrupting themselves with a barely sold run at The King's scared us well away from it!
Your group has performed an interesting line up of shows - some of which you will see we have done as well. I also can see a dramatic improvement in the quality of your programmes over the years - which seems to follow a very similar pattern to the way our programmes have evolved.
I actually think that the standard of amateur theatre has never been higher - whether it be acting or singing ability - or the underlying production values, such as costumes, props and even programmes.
rich83 said:
Mamma Mia?? Not one that I have done personally. What's the MDs name?
Al Gavin. He was conducting for me last week for a Warner Bros CD: http://stevecarter.com/random/IntoWinter.movHe's very fine pianist (though don't tell him I said so).
Eric Mc said:
Disastrous said:
This is us.
http://theatreguildglasgow.co.uk
We made a bit of a decision lately about whether to try and grow to fill the King's Theatre in Glasgow (1,700-odd seats) or to stay in a smaller venue and try and 'raise the bar' in terms of production quality. Another company almost bankrupting themselves with a barely sold run at The King's scared us well away from it!
1,700 seats is very ambitious. We put on our shows at The Princes Hall Aldershot - which these days has a normal maximum capacity of around 450.http://theatreguildglasgow.co.uk
We made a bit of a decision lately about whether to try and grow to fill the King's Theatre in Glasgow (1,700-odd seats) or to stay in a smaller venue and try and 'raise the bar' in terms of production quality. Another company almost bankrupting themselves with a barely sold run at The King's scared us well away from it!
Your group has performed an interesting line up of shows - some of which you will see we have done as well. I also can see a dramatic improvement in the quality of your programmes over the years - which seems to follow a very similar pattern to the way our programmes have evolved.
I actually think that the standard of amateur theatre has never been higher - whether it be acting or singing ability - or the underlying production values, such as costumes, props and even programmes.
I'm with you in that I don't like Jukebox Musicals and didn't get much out of the likes of Footloose and 'poppy' stuff like that, but I can't deny it went down very well. My fave ever was playing Billy in Carousel but I concede that's a show for grannies!
I agree the standard has become very high of late and I haven't seen many where I'd have said the performers were noticeably below professional standard. Of course you miss the sets and the band etc but it's impressive what can be achieved!
As I mentioned earlier, this thread prompted me to have a look at the theatre offerings in my local area - Chesterfield, Sheffield & Buxton. I'm a fan of dramatic and musical theatre and there really is nothing I want to see. Not all theatre goers want to see yet another Gilbert & Sullivan piece or a Cliff/Buddy/Elton tribute or some abstract mime done by people in full head masks, and therein lies the problem. There needs to be a mix of both popular (& lighter) productions to entice larger audiences who then may then get a taste for the theatre and try something a little more....can't think of the right word but you get my drift.
I will book a couple of shows now I've reminded myself but there is nothing I just HAVE to see.
I will book a couple of shows now I've reminded myself but there is nothing I just HAVE to see.
Thinking back the last few weeks in Glasgow, and mixing amateur with visiting touring productions you could take your pick from:
The King & I
Grease
A pro tour of Grease
Annie
Disco Inferno
Nine (superb show!)
Matthew Bourne ballet things
And that's just off the top of my head. Fairly broad mix of stuff I think...
The King & I
Grease
A pro tour of Grease
Annie
Disco Inferno
Nine (superb show!)
Matthew Bourne ballet things
And that's just off the top of my head. Fairly broad mix of stuff I think...
t in bed.
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