Discussion
Andyjc86 said:
So, that's another season done. Whilst they will never give you the running costs, Tony let out that most miners were running about 80-90%, where as his dredge was about 50-60%. (I guess that includes the land owners cut)
I would imagine Todd runs closer to 90% as his crew is massive, and they lease/buy equipment for fun. So on a $3m season, they will have $300k for about 12 peoples wages, and future investments. No wonder they can't afford to buy land!
Parkers seams to be a more efficient set up, so I guess he's at around 80% (moving the wash plant instead of running rock trucks etc etc) which is good going. Plus he has a smaller crew
I assumed the costs included wages. People aren't taking jobs as truck drivers etc on a gold share. I would imagine Todd runs closer to 90% as his crew is massive, and they lease/buy equipment for fun. So on a $3m season, they will have $300k for about 12 peoples wages, and future investments. No wonder they can't afford to buy land!
Parkers seams to be a more efficient set up, so I guess he's at around 80% (moving the wash plant instead of running rock trucks etc etc) which is good going. Plus he has a smaller crew
So, anyone want to place bets on how Todd's next season in Oregon will turn out?
I'm going to go with "Absolute disaster".
I laughed at Parker's comment when Todd was talking about the Oregan claim in the after show:-
Todd: "It's frickin awesome, there are nuggets just lying around, blah, blah, blah..."
Parker: "Are there diamonds there?"
Interestingly enough, Todd also mentioned during the show that "these guys (Tony and Parker) are professional miners", implying that he isn't.
Tony Beets seems even more mental for going after an even more derelict dredge this year and this one is 100 miles away from where he needs it to be.
Parker kept his plans close to his chest, but seeing as he seems to have the keenest business sense (keeping costs down and maximising production), he should be interesting to watch. If only he could sort out his attitude.
I'm going to go with "Absolute disaster".
I laughed at Parker's comment when Todd was talking about the Oregan claim in the after show:-
Todd: "It's frickin awesome, there are nuggets just lying around, blah, blah, blah..."
Parker: "Are there diamonds there?"
Interestingly enough, Todd also mentioned during the show that "these guys (Tony and Parker) are professional miners", implying that he isn't.
Tony Beets seems even more mental for going after an even more derelict dredge this year and this one is 100 miles away from where he needs it to be.
Parker kept his plans close to his chest, but seeing as he seems to have the keenest business sense (keeping costs down and maximising production), he should be interesting to watch. If only he could sort out his attitude.
Edited by youngsyr on Thursday 10th March 09:28
I think it might be bad, but actually hope it's good...
Freddie Dodge has got his head firmly screwed on (did it ever come out why he joined the Hoffman crew, seemingly as lead advisor?) and supported the move (after warning Todd one nugget does not a claim make).
Zero overburden must reduce costs significantly, which would permit a lower yield per yard - which didn't seem to be the case on the test run. Plus no freezing, so a year long season (assuming there's no bylaws restricting mining to certain months?).
Freddie Dodge has got his head firmly screwed on (did it ever come out why he joined the Hoffman crew, seemingly as lead advisor?) and supported the move (after warning Todd one nugget does not a claim make).
Zero overburden must reduce costs significantly, which would permit a lower yield per yard - which didn't seem to be the case on the test run. Plus no freezing, so a year long season (assuming there's no bylaws restricting mining to certain months?).
Sway said:
I think it might be bad, but actually hope it's good...
Freddie Dodge has got his head firmly screwed on (did it ever come out why he joined the Hoffman crew, seemingly as lead advisor?) and supported the move (after warning Todd one nugget does not a claim make).
Zero overburden must reduce costs significantly, which would permit a lower yield per yard - which didn't seem to be the case on the test run. Plus no freezing, so a year long season (assuming there's no bylaws restricting mining to certain months?).
The thought that's always in the back of my mind is: people have been mining for gold in the US for 150 years, is it ever going to be that easy to just turn up to a mine and make a fortune?Freddie Dodge has got his head firmly screwed on (did it ever come out why he joined the Hoffman crew, seemingly as lead advisor?) and supported the move (after warning Todd one nugget does not a claim make).
Zero overburden must reduce costs significantly, which would permit a lower yield per yard - which didn't seem to be the case on the test run. Plus no freezing, so a year long season (assuming there's no bylaws restricting mining to certain months?).
I guess I have a bit of insider knowledge in that I've audited a gold mining company and seen the lengths they have to go to to find profitable sites. One even set up in an abandoned, flooded Victorian era underground mine on Fiji, which is a 1,000 miles off the coast of Australia.
The idea that there's very profitable ground just lying around in middle America (or anywhere even remotely accessible on the continent) strikes me as hard to believe.
To further back that up, Todd went into one of the reasons why no-one had mined the Oregon site yet in the aftershow - it's 2 miles from the nearest water supply and uphill all the way. This presents a significant issue for running a wash plant.
He also mentioned that they would be able (permitted?) to mine the site for 10 months of the year "if they wanted", but mentioned they wouldn't be mining for 10 months.
I'm also not convinced about Freddie Dodge - weren't his family mining a tiny little creek at one point this/last season? Difficult to see how they could make much money out of such a small operation.
No doubt he knows his stuff about getting gold out of the ground, but I'm not convinced about his business acumen.
No doubt he knows his stuff about getting gold out of the ground, but I'm not convinced about his business acumen.
Doesn't Freddie own MSI?
He's made the point before that the seams containing gold are rich but low yield. Where they actually mine is where the gold accumulates after being freed from the seam by erosion - hence they still find nuggets on ground mined several times before.
We'll find out next season, but I'm an eternal optimist!
He's made the point before that the seams containing gold are rich but low yield. Where they actually mine is where the gold accumulates after being freed from the seam by erosion - hence they still find nuggets on ground mined several times before.
We'll find out next season, but I'm an eternal optimist!
I always thought that the Hoffman's owned MSI (Todd is always wearing MSI logo'ed gear, but I haven't seen Freddie wear it)?
Had a quick google but couldn't come up with anything conclusive apart from that Freddie is "involved with" MSI.
My thoughts on Freddie and that creek were that it's great to mine rich ground, but even with rich ground you have to process 100s of yards, if not thousands to make any real money out of it.
The days of finding fist sized nuggets are long gone, and even if you do find one, it only pays for your season. You're not going to retire a millionaire off the back of it.
Had a quick google but couldn't come up with anything conclusive apart from that Freddie is "involved with" MSI.
My thoughts on Freddie and that creek were that it's great to mine rich ground, but even with rich ground you have to process 100s of yards, if not thousands to make any real money out of it.
The days of finding fist sized nuggets are long gone, and even if you do find one, it only pays for your season. You're not going to retire a millionaire off the back of it.
youngsyr said:
Interestingly enough, Todd also mentioned during the show that "these guys (Tony and Parker) are professional miners", implying that he isn't.
The premise of the first series was that a group of non-miners (Todd and crew) traveled up to the Yukon to pan for their fortune and hilarity followed - Todd has being learning from his mistakes ever since, well he makes a lot of mistakes to learn from so he might consider himself to not be a pro.Tony is and has been for decades, Parker is, but of course he's only 20 or so, he was a kid playing with his Grandad's Hobby wash-plant when Todd started.
Really, it's just Todd trying to save his ego - call it what he likes, he's been doing it longer than Parker, has a bigger crew and more equipment - all things being equal he should have beaten his total with ease.
youngsyr said:
I always thought that the Hoffman's owned MSI (Todd is always wearing MSI logo'ed gear, but I haven't seen Freddie wear it)?
Had a quick google but couldn't come up with anything conclusive apart from that Freddie is "involved with" MSI.
My thoughts on Freddie and that creek were that it's great to mine rich ground, but even with rich ground you have to process 100s of yards, if not thousands to make any real money out of it.
The days of finding fist sized nuggets are long gone, and even if you do find one, it only pays for your season. You're not going to retire a millionaire off the back of it.
It's probably best not to scratch the surface too much - don't think discovery list is as "stylized reality" like Fast N' Loud, but it's not a documentary. Had a quick google but couldn't come up with anything conclusive apart from that Freddie is "involved with" MSI.
My thoughts on Freddie and that creek were that it's great to mine rich ground, but even with rich ground you have to process 100s of yards, if not thousands to make any real money out of it.
The days of finding fist sized nuggets are long gone, and even if you do find one, it only pays for your season. You're not going to retire a millionaire off the back of it.
I believe the Hoffans own 3:16 Mining, they have that over everything - unsurprisingly 3:16 is a Bible thing. He also owns an air strip and plant business I believe. Freddy Dodge is certainly part of MSI - he's listed as their "expert" and certainly knows his stuff. I'm sure he hates every episode then they do that old Gold Rush stalwart - the plant move - MSI can fit wheels to all of their plants, and if you were a nomadic miner who shifts plants 3 times a series and moves to a new mine every other year - you'd have it on wheels wouldn't you?
As for the question of "how is seemingly easy to mind gold in the US, hasn't it all gone by now, or wouldn't everyone be doing it?".
You have to go back to series 1 again - in 2011 when they started thanks to the financial crash - Gold was worth 1400 USD/Oz, and expected to rise and rise (see threads about Gold on PH "how high can it go" and such). Even at the cack-handed and low level of their operations back then, it was probably financially viable to do it - if they did a better job of it - it peaked around series 2-3 and has been falling since.
But, prior to the crash it was as low as 252 USD/Oz at the start of the 2000s and didn't rise above 600 until the first murmurs of trouble and was 800 about the time Leemans fell.
If you accept Tony's 80% costs figure and a gold price of 1200 USD/Oz - Todd ended on $3.6m worth of Gold this year and made a profit of $720k - but if they had done the same thing 10 years ago when it was roughly 500 USD/Oz they would have had $1.5mm worth of Gold and assuming costs being roughly the same would have lost $1.3m.
2009 to 2016 was probably a Golden Era for Gold Mining - the price was high enough and technology good enough to trap very fine amounts of gold to make it all worth while.
Again, whilst all the focus was on Todd v Parker, perhaps Tony, once again isn't as crazy as he looks, if the recovery holds and grows Gold will once again fall and Oil prices rise (fuel being one of their biggest expenses) it might not be financial viable to mine in the way they do now with massive plants and multiple trucks - Tony wants to be there for years to come, Todd is there for the TV thing, Parker who-knows he's 20ish with no doubt a pile of money from TV and the profits from mining - if the whole thing came crashing down tomorrow he's got his whole life to do something else.
You have to go back to series 1 again - in 2011 when they started thanks to the financial crash - Gold was worth 1400 USD/Oz, and expected to rise and rise (see threads about Gold on PH "how high can it go" and such). Even at the cack-handed and low level of their operations back then, it was probably financially viable to do it - if they did a better job of it - it peaked around series 2-3 and has been falling since.
But, prior to the crash it was as low as 252 USD/Oz at the start of the 2000s and didn't rise above 600 until the first murmurs of trouble and was 800 about the time Leemans fell.
If you accept Tony's 80% costs figure and a gold price of 1200 USD/Oz - Todd ended on $3.6m worth of Gold this year and made a profit of $720k - but if they had done the same thing 10 years ago when it was roughly 500 USD/Oz they would have had $1.5mm worth of Gold and assuming costs being roughly the same would have lost $1.3m.
2009 to 2016 was probably a Golden Era for Gold Mining - the price was high enough and technology good enough to trap very fine amounts of gold to make it all worth while.
Again, whilst all the focus was on Todd v Parker, perhaps Tony, once again isn't as crazy as he looks, if the recovery holds and grows Gold will once again fall and Oil prices rise (fuel being one of their biggest expenses) it might not be financial viable to mine in the way they do now with massive plants and multiple trucks - Tony wants to be there for years to come, Todd is there for the TV thing, Parker who-knows he's 20ish with no doubt a pile of money from TV and the profits from mining - if the whole thing came crashing down tomorrow he's got his whole life to do something else.
youngsyr said:
I always thought that the Hoffman's owned MSI (Todd is always wearing MSI logo'ed gear, but I haven't seen Freddie wear it)?
Had a quick google but couldn't come up with anything conclusive apart from that Freddie is "involved with" MSI.
My thoughts on Freddie and that creek were that it's great to mine rich ground, but even with rich ground you have to process 100s of yards, if not thousands to make any real money out of it.
The days of finding fist sized nuggets are long gone, and even if you do find one, it only pays for your season. You're not going to retire a millionaire off the back of it.
Not sure if they have anything financial to do with MSI. I imagine a lot of the gear you see on the show is 'gifted' to the team by suppliers eager to get the exposure - it's great advertising.Had a quick google but couldn't come up with anything conclusive apart from that Freddie is "involved with" MSI.
My thoughts on Freddie and that creek were that it's great to mine rich ground, but even with rich ground you have to process 100s of yards, if not thousands to make any real money out of it.
The days of finding fist sized nuggets are long gone, and even if you do find one, it only pays for your season. You're not going to retire a millionaire off the back of it.
Here's me with them on the booth of Pioneer Pumps at a tradeshow. Pioneer are one of my clients, and they supplied the mobile green water pump seen since the start of series one. IIRC, Pioneer know the Hoffmans well from before the show, and offered them the pump. As you will see, all of the equipment on the show has loads of extra logos slapped all over them, for maximum exposure.
I wonder if Volvo sponsor Todd's crew, too? All the rock trucks seem to be Volvo kit.
Edited by phil1979 on Thursday 10th March 16:52
Sadly, we have received news that Grandpa John Schnabel passed away peacefully in his sleep early this morning at the age of 96.
A statement from the Schnabel family: "We couldn’t have asked for a better father, grandfather and overall family man. He was a true legend and we appreciate all of your love and support as we celebrate his wonderful life.”
Our thoughts go out to the Schnabel family. We'll miss you, Grandpa.
RIP John Schnabel
A statement from the Schnabel family: "We couldn’t have asked for a better father, grandfather and overall family man. He was a true legend and we appreciate all of your love and support as we celebrate his wonderful life.”
Our thoughts go out to the Schnabel family. We'll miss you, Grandpa.
RIP John Schnabel
RIP He was such a nice guy and kept Parker real, without him I fear Parker will only get more up his own ass. Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff