Red Arrows: Inside The Bubble

[Beati Dogu]

They usually base themselves at Exeter Airport for part of the summer display season in the south west.

When Nigel Mansell owned & lived at nearby Woodbury Golf Course, he'd usually get them to put on a display for his birthday. That meant we got a nice display too.




There was a program last night called Jetstream on one of the Discovery channels. I was about the Italian Air Force's display team, the Frecce Tricolori (three coloured arrows) who have been going since before the Red Arrows were founded. Their smoke is red, green and white like the Italian flag.

If you remember the Ramstein air show disaster back in the 80s, that was caused by 3 of the Frecce Tricolori's jets colliding and one of them cartwheeled into the crowd. 67 spectators and the 3 pilots were killed. German band Rammstein were named after this incident.

[Eric Mc]

The Frecci fly a 10 ship formation, as opposed to the Arrows 9.

I first saw the Frecci at Greenham Common in 1976 when they were still flying the FIAT G-91 -

[Beati Dogu]

I went to the air show at RNAS Yeovilton last weekend.

The Vulcan bomber was there. Always an impressive sight.

An RAF Typhoon came flying down low over the runway and then did a vertical storm climb until it was out of sight. I can only assume it's in orbit now as it didn't come back.

The French had a couple of their carrier-based Rafales fighters parked up on display. Nice looking aircraft those.

It was a good day, but man it was hot & being an airfield there's just no cover.

[Dyl]

After watching the Goodwood YouTube coverage, where they transmitted the pilots' radio instead of commentary, i was really interested to see this. Really enjoyed it, particularly the pilot giving the short running commentary of what he is doing on the rollover manoeuvre. And also had no idea they would fly all the way to Cyprus (?) in formation!

[ninja-lewis]

Dyl said:

After watching the Goodwood YouTube coverage, where they transmitted the pilots' radio instead of commentary, i was really interested to see this. Really enjoyed it, particularly the pilot giving the short running commentary of what he is doing on the rollover manoeuvre. And also had no idea they would fly all the way to Cyprus (?) in formation!

They only have the range to fly for 90 minutes or so without refueling so they do have a couple of stops in France, Italy and Greece so in effect the only real difference between their transit to Akrotiri and their transits between displays in the UK is that they'll cruise at altitude rather than low level as they do in the UK.

They also do multi-leg journeys to display in North America, the Middle East and the Far East.

[Ayahuasca]

kev1974 said:

What the hell do you do in your career/life to follow having been Red One?

I supposed they either stay in the RAF and become that moustachioed bloke that's in charge, or exit the RAF and go on to be very very very well paid project managers or something! But it cannot possibly live up to the days in the plane!

I understand that it is normally their last flying posting as it would be too expensive to re-train them back into a mainstream role.

[anonymous-user]

Ayahuasca said:

I understand that it is normally their last flying posting as it would be too expensive to re-train them back into a mainstream role.

Unlikely.
Plenty of pilots and other aircrew carry out non-operational roles in the air and on the ground only to return to ops flying following an OCU refresher.
If every pilot who spent any time away from the front line Sqns never went back again nothing would ever get airborne.

[BlueMeganeII]

Ayahuasca said:

I understand that it is normally their last flying posting as it would be too expensive to re-train them back into a mainstream role.

I've been serving in the RAF for the last 8 years and have met a few ex Red Arrows pilots. They do indeed go back, usually to the aircraft type they came from. Don't forget many of the pilots that have flown in the Red Arrows are in their 20s. It must just be another tick on the box for their OJARs.

[ninja-lewis]

BlueMeganeII said:

Ayahuasca said:

I understand that it is normally their last flying posting as it would be too expensive to re-train them back into a mainstream role.

I've been serving in the RAF for the last 8 years and have met a few ex Red Arrows pilots. They do indeed go back, usually to the aircraft type they came from. Don't forget many of the pilots that have flown in the Red Arrows are in their 20s. It must just be another tick on the box for their OJARs.

I think Ayahuasca was talking about the team leaders so that's two tours with the team plus another one or two tours in normals roles in between. I think the average age for the first tour pilots is closer to early thirties (which makes sense when you consider university - Cranwell - flying training - OCU - Frontline tour(s) - passig RAFAT selection for most pilots these days). Hence team leaders would probably be around early 40s where they may well start thinking about pursuing opportunities outside the RAF. Hardly surprising if the RAF isn't inclined to go to the expense of putting them back in a flying role without a hefty return of service attached.

[Eric Mc]

Watched it last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. A PROPER documentary (unlike John Sergeant's rubbishy documentary on the Lancaster from the previous week).

[Zyp]

I remember sitting outside a beach cafe on Curium beach near Akrotiri one April, probably 3 years ago.

The Arrows were practising at the time - was treated to an amazing show and something that made the hairs on my neck stand to attention.
Superb.

[CrutyRammers]

Eric Mc said:

Watched it last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. A PROPER documentary (unlike John Sergeant's rubbishy documentary on the Lancaster from the previous week).

Glad you enjoyed it Eric. Myself and the missus just watched it and I'm afraid I have to agree with the posters above. Too much fake drama, not enough of the actual interesting stuff. "Oh no, we've lost 2 days out of our 6 week schedule". "But suddenly, there was a problem!". "Only 3 days left before the big test that I'm sure has never not been passed in the last 50 years". And of course, "darling, I'll call you back for a proper chat about this deeply personal issue as soon as this tosser gets this camera out of my nose".
Very lightweight and rather disappointing IMO. Still it was nice to see the 2 minutes of flying footage at the end.

[anonymous-user]

Anyone know how many Airframe Hrs are on the Reds Hawk fleet?? Must be getting on a bit now??

[Eric Mc]

CrutyRammers said:

Glad you enjoyed it Eric. Myself and the missus just watched it and I'm afraid I have to agree with the posters above. Too much fake drama, not enough of the actual interesting stuff. "Oh no, we've lost 2 days out of our 6 week schedule". "But suddenly, there was a problem!". "Only 3 days left before the big test that I'm sure has never not been passed in the last 50 years". And of course, "darling, I'll call you back for a proper chat about this deeply personal issue as soon as this tosser gets this camera out of my nose".
Very lightweight and rather disappointing IMO. Still it was nice to see the 2 minutes of flying footage at the end.

At least there were no factual inaccuracies and generally the commentary was informed and accurate. In the modern age, I'm happy if a documentary achieves this.

[bluey1905]

I enjoyed it for what it was, a quick insight into the life of the Red Arrows. I suppose the programme makers have to strike a balance between the average viewer who may see the Red Arrrows once a year at the Queens birthday bash, and the aviation enthusiast who follows them quite closely. It was certainly better than Eastenders, Emerdale and all the other junk on TV these days anyway.

[g3org3y]

Finally uploaded the Red Arrows photos if anyone is interested.

Eric, haven't forgotten your question, awaiting an answer.

[Ayahuasca]

Max_Torque said:

Anyone know how many Airframe Hrs are on the Reds Hawk fleet?? Must be getting on a bit now??

At present, unless a plan to replace them is developed, they are destined to be grounded in the RAF's 100th birthday year.

[Lurking Lawyer]

Do the Reds fly standard T1As, or are they modified?

Or, in other words, if the current airframes are good for another 3 years, would the Reds just be able to replace them from other Hawks within the RAF's inventory with fewer hours on them?

[Eric Mc]

They could always incorporate the team into the Memorial Flight and keep them flying as historic aircraft.

[0000]

Lurking Lawyer said:

Do the Reds fly standard T1As, or are they modified?

Or, in other words, if the current airframes are good for another 3 years, would the Reds just be able to replace them from other Hawks within the RAF's inventory with fewer hours on them?

No, they only fly red ones that smoke and they're like rocking horse poo.

I'm not aware that theirs are drastically modified. The Hawk's been produced in a lot of configurations though, I'd imagine there's more variance between ones built a few years apart than versus in / out of the Red Arrows. Whether they'd do that or not I don't know. Presumably they've helped BAES' sales quite a lot and there would be a deal to be done, if they weren't looking to move away from the Hawk.