Private Ryan opening scene finally surpassed?
Discussion
Negative Creep said:
I agree. Lone Survivor was very enjoyable and well made, but it did bother me the amount of times they got hit to little actual effect. Not that I've ever been in that situation, but could intense training and sheer adrenaline nullify the pain to a certain degree?
I've a book called House To House by a US soldier about his time in Fallujah and he says its not unusual to pump bad guys full of lead because adrenaline can keep you going; insurgents were regularly high and they were even harder to kill. Brigand said:
Yes that was a good one, and IIRC one of the things that made it so good was the fact it was choreographed by a Special Forces chap (for some reason Chris Ryan of all people springs to mind as being that man) so their Fire & Manoeuvre procedures they were doing there were spot on, instead of the usual "Run & Gun" that Hollywood usually defaults to.
Andy McNab devised the training and also for Collateral.Some of the movies the Korean film industry have come out with are pretty brutal too.
"71 Into the Fire" is the story of how a a group of student-soldiers fought a vital delaying action against the communists. It's based on a true story and is available on Youtube. The city battle at the beginning is particularly well done.
So is this year's "Tae Guk Gi: The Brotherhood of War". There's a massive pitched battle scene near the end that must have taken some filming.
"71 Into the Fire" is the story of how a a group of student-soldiers fought a vital delaying action against the communists. It's based on a true story and is available on Youtube. The city battle at the beginning is particularly well done.
So is this year's "Tae Guk Gi: The Brotherhood of War". There's a massive pitched battle scene near the end that must have taken some filming.
Brigand said:
Like you say, the sound was great there too, displaying a much more accurate sound effect than Hollywood likes to use. Guns tend to be quite boring in sound, unlike Hollywood which likes to portray them as having all kinds of scary / exciting noises.
Have you ever fired a real gun, or been in the presence of one firing? I'm not talking about shotguns on a clay shoot, or a .22 rifle or something, proper guns are seriously loud. If Hollywood has perpetuated any myth about the sound of guns it's that suppressors, often erroneously called "silencers" will turn the noise of gunfire into a quiet, mechanical "fwip fwip fwip" noise.The majority of Hollywood productions show death by gunshot as massively sanitised. Bullet goes in, target instantly loses consciousness and falls to the ground, silent and immediately dead. There is one scene in SPR that shows what a traumatic experience it must be to witness someone dying quickly, which is to say nothing of people taking shots to the lungs or viscera and slowly dying over the course of a few hours.
Apart from a few OTT moments where the laws of physics go out the window, the film Rambo (not to be confused with Rambo: First Blood), shows fairly accurately what bullets and explosives do the the human body. I thought it was quite a brave move to go to that level of detail in depicting the violence, because traditionally even action films leaning towards the more brutal end of the scale have not really shown quite how people are ripped and torn apart by combat.
entropy said:
Negative Creep said:
I agree. Lone Survivor was very enjoyable and well made, but it did bother me the amount of times they got hit to little actual effect. Not that I've ever been in that situation, but could intense training and sheer adrenaline nullify the pain to a certain degree?
I've a book called House To House by a US soldier about his time in Fallujah and he says its not unusual to pump bad guys full of lead because adrenaline can keep you going; insurgents were regularly high and they were even harder to kill. Brigand said:
Yes that was a good one, and IIRC one of the things that made it so good was the fact it was choreographed by a Special Forces chap (for some reason Chris Ryan of all people springs to mind as being that man) so their Fire & Manoeuvre procedures they were doing there were spot on, instead of the usual "Run & Gun" that Hollywood usually defaults to.
Andy McNab devised the training and also for Collateral.Mastodon2 said:
Brigand said:
Like you say, the sound was great there too, displaying a much more accurate sound effect than Hollywood likes to use. Guns tend to be quite boring in sound, unlike Hollywood which likes to portray them as having all kinds of scary / exciting noises.
Have you ever fired a real gun, or been in the presence of one firing? I'm not talking about shotguns on a clay shoot, or a .22 rifle or something, proper guns are seriously loud....What I was getting at with my initial statement was that guns are of course very loud, but make what Hollywood would suggest was a rather 'boring' noise. The fact that movies have so many different sounds for the same gun depending on which one you are watching says it all really - the sound effects get beefed up or just made up depending on what they want at the time.
One thing they do seem to get fairly right is ricochet effects, I've heard a few classic-sounding pitchooos when a round bounces off a rock or some thick metal.
Brigand said:
Halmyre said:
The 'Heat' shootout stands out for the sheer bloody racket they make....
Yes that was a good one, and IIRC one of the things that made it so good was the fact it was choreographed by a Special Forces chap (for some reason Chris Ryan of all people springs to mind as being that man) so their Fire & Manoeuvre procedures they were doing there were spot on, instead of the usual "Run & Gun" that Hollywood usually defaults to. Like you say, the sound was great there too, displaying a much more accurate sound effect than Hollywood likes to use. Guns tend to be quite boring in sound, unlike Hollywood which likes to portray them as having all kinds of scary / exciting noises.
I've stood next to it many times during a test firing and its floor shaking ear splitting mayhem.
98elise said:
I've maintained and fired many guns. I think hollywood normally makes then sound dull in comparison to the real thing. One particularly dramatic gun is very underplayed when seen in movies.
I've stood next to it many times during a test firing and its floor shaking ear splitting mayhem.
What I don't get is why they change the sounds of the Minigun/Gatling gun; the real sound of that is incredible, yet Hollywood always change it to something else. Its a rare film that keeps it accurate.I've stood next to it many times during a test firing and its floor shaking ear splitting mayhem.
98elise said:
Brigand said:
Halmyre said:
The 'Heat' shootout stands out for the sheer bloody racket they make....
Yes that was a good one, and IIRC one of the things that made it so good was the fact it was choreographed by a Special Forces chap (for some reason Chris Ryan of all people springs to mind as being that man) so their Fire & Manoeuvre procedures they were doing there were spot on, instead of the usual "Run & Gun" that Hollywood usually defaults to. Like you say, the sound was great there too, displaying a much more accurate sound effect than Hollywood likes to use. Guns tend to be quite boring in sound, unlike Hollywood which likes to portray them as having all kinds of scary / exciting noises.
I've stood next to it many times during a test firing and its floor shaking ear splitting mayhem.
Anyway, we were all plinking away with .38s and 9mms and even a .44 Magnum ("Probably the most powerful handgun in the world..." ya da ya...), when suddenly there was an enormous BOOM, loud even with ear defenders on and the range (indoors) filled with black smoke.
Someone had fired a black powder musket... He rather apologetically packed it away after that
On topic, SPR's opening scene will take some beating, imo, but I'll give Lone Survivor a try.
M
ash73 said:
Interesting to read about operation Red Wings afterwards, sounds like they didn't actually nail Ahmad Shah until much later.
[spoiler] I thought that too. I didn't even think it was that certain at the end of Lone Survivor that they had killed Ahmad Shah which I thought was very un-American of them[/spoilerash73 said:
Just watched Lone Survivor and enjoyed it. Mohammad Gulab Khan was the real hero of the film for me, imagine taking in an American soldier like that and putting your family and entire village at risk to protect him.
The firefight was a bit Hollywood, but did make me remember stories from the Falklands that it took multiple hits to stop Argentine targets even at short range. Might be a different story with an AK47 though.
Interesting to read about operation Red Wings afterwards, sounds like they didn't actually nail Ahmad Shah until much later.
There was a case in the USA where a suspect was shot six times by handguns and lived. I was on our range when an SB inspector shot himself in the leg and walked off the range moaning at the rest of us.The firefight was a bit Hollywood, but did make me remember stories from the Falklands that it took multiple hits to stop Argentine targets even at short range. Might be a different story with an AK47 though.
Interesting to read about operation Red Wings afterwards, sounds like they didn't actually nail Ahmad Shah until much later.
When the Princess Ann was shot at in The Mall her prot officer was shot in the hip, shattering the ball and socket joint of one leg yet he remained standing.
Hamburger Hill - good depiction on the brutality of warfare - and probably the best thing about the film.
joema said:
Nope. People were expexting a SPR of the pacific. While it might have lacked some of the theatrics the film was a lot more phsycologically intense. And without the daft storyline
Art-house war film - I really like the contrasts with nature.Brigand said:
98elise said:
I've maintained and fired many guns. I think hollywood normally makes then sound dull in comparison to the real thing. One particularly dramatic gun is very underplayed when seen in movies.
I've stood next to it many times during a test firing and its floor shaking ear splitting mayhem.
What I don't get is why they change the sounds of the Minigun/Gatling gun; the real sound of that is incredible, yet Hollywood always change it to something else. Its a rare film that keeps it accurate.I've stood next to it many times during a test firing and its floor shaking ear splitting mayhem.
king hell!!!"Edited by 98elise on Wednesday 20th August 12:54
Watched both at the weekend, really enjoyed Lone Survivor, I was expecting it to be some hung ho Americana but it was well done, although they did get shot a good few times.
Also, fk having to be a stuntman who did some of those rock falls, looked bloody painful no matter how many pads you have on.
Also, f
k having to be a stuntman who did some of those rock falls, looked bloody painful no matter how many pads you have on.Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff