Harry's Garage - YouTube

[M4SER]

964Cup said:

The more annoying thing is that the gauge shows empty when you still have a fair bit left in the tank. If you drive from full gauge to empty, you will put in about 50-52 litres (for a range in normal driving of about 250 miles - or about 90 miles of London commuting - yes, really).

Here's an interesting thing: the tank in the 720, says my old handbook, was 72 litres. This is also what it says online for the 750. However my printed handbook and the PDF for the 750 says 60 litres. So do the PDFs for all the 720 model years now on the website.

In the 720 I would happily do another 50 miles of "normal" driving once the gauge showed empty and the range was "--". In the 750 I am not sure how far to risk it. I have tried using an OBD-II reader to try to get an actual litre number, but it just gives you the same %age that is shown on the gauge.

Apparently the very conservative gauge reading is so that you don't risk fuel surge or actually running out of fuel while WOT on track, but it's fantastically irritating when touring. As is not actually knowing how big the tank really is.

I had exactly this when I did the road trip in the 750S. Each time I filled it, the pump stopped at 52-53 litres, when I knew tank was 72litres. Even with the reserve light on, I never squeezed more than 55 litres in. Very annoying on a long trip..

[br d]

964Cup said:

Hatfield confirms it is indeed a 72 litre tank. They sent me the options document which has a technical reference section that includes this number. So 19 US gallons, 15.8 Imperial gallons.

I think the problem is that whoever compiled the handbook worked out the litres from gallons, but used the Imperial gallons number and treated it as US gallons. Because 60 litres is indeed 15.8 US gallons, while 15.8 Imperial gallons is...72 litres.

That's useful info.

[DonkeyApple]

M4SER said:

I had exactly this when I did the road trip in the 750S. Each time I filled it, the pump stopped at 52-53 litres, when I knew tank was 72litres. Even with the reserve light on, I never squeezed more than 55 litres in. Very annoying on a long trip..

But on the flipside, you saved £30 at every fill up.

[964Cup]

M4SER said:

I had exactly this when I did the road trip in the 750S. Each time I filled it, the pump stopped at 52-53 litres, when I knew tank was 72litres. Even with the reserve light on, I never squeezed more than 55 litres in. Very annoying on a long trip..

You get used to it. On long tours, I reset the long-term trip, keep an eye on the mpg and miles travelled and do maths, ignoring the increasingly strident fuel warnings. I think the most I've ever put in was 62 litres, which suggested to me that the 72 litre number from the printed handbook must be right (although it's just on the edge of what might fit with a dry 60 litre tank, the filler neck and Italian weights and measures, too).

You'd think they'd have worked on a better fuel tank design to avoid surge issues rather than baking in a 20 litre invisible reserve. Presumably given the state of tune the effect of running out of fuel, especially under any kind of load, is so catastrophic that it simply cannot be risked.

Surprised at your comments on the comfort seats, though. I'm on my third P14/P28, all with the electric comfort seats, and have done about 10,000 miles in them including some very long drives across the continent. I find them extremely comfortable. The "P1" seats (I have one from a 675LT as an armchair) are very tight and lack lumbar support - much like the 918 buckets. They work (obviously) as track seats, but wouldn't be my choice for long tours. I haven't tried the Senna seats although I hear good things about them. The electric seat controls are completely stupid, but then for most people I suspect you use them once, set the memory and are done.

[h0b0]

What are the major changes between 720S and 750S to change the like warm review of the 720S into an overwhelmingly positive 750s review?

I know we have covered the looks of the car which, while minimal, appear to have had a significant impact. But, for me, the 720S was let down by turbo lag/hesitation. I know the gear ratios have been shortened but did it really solve McLarens Achilles heel and make it into a strength? To my knowledge, the turbos are the same and the turbos were subject to pages on this thread as they took all the blame.

Or, is the real difference the roads the cars were tested on? I know I had more fun driving a Hyundai in Ireland than driving anything sporty here in New Jersey. (Not old Jersey!).

[732NM]

964Cup said:

You'd think they'd have worked on a better fuel tank design to avoid surge issues rather than baking in a 20 litre invisible reserve. Presumably given the state of tune the effect of running out of fuel, especially under any kind of load, is so catastrophic that it simply cannot be risked.

If they can't map in a lean on load trip then they are a bunch of muppets. If they can't engineer in a lift pump and HP pump system that pulls the last litre out then they are a bunch of muppets.

I doubt they are a bunch of muppets.

Someone cocked up the dash calibration or some idiot specified a huge reserve warning is more likely than a poorly engineered fuel system or engine safety mapping.

[964Cup]

732NM said:

If they can't map in a lean on load trip then they are a bunch of muppets. If they can't engineer in a lift pump and HP pump system that pulls the last litre out then they are a bunch of muppets.

I doubt they are a bunch of muppets.

Someone cocked up the dash calibration or some idiot specified a huge reserve warning is more likely than a poorly engineered fuel system or engine safety mapping.

It's been a feature of the 7x0 series throughout. I don't know about the previous Super or Sports series. It's ridiculous, because it makes a decent range car apparently much less usable as a tourer. The trouble is once the gauge goes to zero you are purely in the hands of estimation. I have no good explanation for the logic - what's presented in the literature is avoiding fuel starvation in track use.

[964Cup]

h0b0 said:

What are the major changes between 720S and 750S to change the like warm review of the 720S into an overwhelmingly positive 750s review?

I know we have covered the looks of the car which, while minimal, appear to have had a significant impact. But, for me, the 720S was let down by turbo lag/hesitation. I know the gear ratios have been shortened but did it really solve McLarens Achilles heel and make it into a strength? To my knowledge, the turbos are the same and the turbos were subject to pages on this thread as they took all the blame.

Or, is the real difference the roads the cars were tested on? I know I had more fun driving a Hyundai in Ireland than driving anything sporty here in New Jersey. (Not old Jersey!).

The changes that make a difference - apart from build quality and the new interior, especially the Elva/Artura-style mode controls - are:

• Faster steering - this is noticeable and makes the car feel more agile
• Better accumulators and suspension calibration - there's a bigger difference between modes but also comfort is more controlled while still riding extremely well for a supercar
• Shorter gearing - this makes an enormous difference to responsiveness and acceleration
• Engine tune - it certainly feels faster-spooling and is obviously more powerful, although as a driver it's hard to separate from the gearing
• Noise - although it doesn't come out in Harry's video, the sound from the 750 exhaust, including lots of amusing burbles and crackles on the overrun in sport mode, is a significant improvement. It'll never be a spine-tingling V12 scream, but it's a good noise.

It's certainly noticeably better to drive than my 720s were. Although, frankly, I loved those too. I suspect a great deal of it - as we are seeing with the Artura - is that first impressions last. While the 2017 launch 720s were ballistically fast they had a variety of early-development problems that coloured perception of the cars - journalists tend to review when the car first comes out. I know Harry looked at the 720 spider again as a used proposition when prices were much lower and was positive then, but there's also always been a slightly marmite thing about the styling. Perhaps now that recent Ferraris - Roma aside - have not been, shall we say, lookers opinions of the 7x0 styling have warmed.

[DonkeyApple]

Re the fuel gauge aspect, it sounds like the decisions re display were a bit too 'because race car' and a little insufficient 'road car'? Just slightly too clever. Ideally, you'd have two different types of reading to select depending on how the car is being used at that moment? And surely surge could be prevented by having a large baffle that retained the last few litres by the feed point? Or maybe the tank does have such a set up but the gauge is on the other side?

[h0b0]

964Cup said:

h0b0 said:

What are the major changes between 720S and 750S to change the like warm review of the 720S into an overwhelmingly positive 750s review?

I know we have covered the looks of the car which, while minimal, appear to have had a significant impact. But, for me, the 720S was let down by turbo lag/hesitation. I know the gear ratios have been shortened but did it really solve McLarens Achilles heel and make it into a strength? To my knowledge, the turbos are the same and the turbos were subject to pages on this thread as they took all the blame.

Or, is the real difference the roads the cars were tested on? I know I had more fun driving a Hyundai in Ireland than driving anything sporty here in New Jersey. (Not old Jersey!).

The changes that make a difference - apart from build quality and the new interior, especially the Elva/Artura-style mode controls - are:

• Faster steering - this is noticeable and makes the car feel more agile
• Better accumulators and suspension calibration - there's a bigger difference between modes but also comfort is more controlled while still riding extremely well for a supercar
• Shorter gearing - this makes an enormous difference to responsiveness and acceleration
• Engine tune - it certainly feels faster-spooling and is obviously more powerful, although as a driver it's hard to separate from the gearing
• Noise - although it doesn't come out in Harry's video, the sound from the 750 exhaust, including lots of amusing burbles and crackles on the overrun in sport mode, is a significant improvement. It'll never be a spine-tingling V12 scream, but it's a good noise.

It's certainly noticeably better to drive than my 720s were. Although, frankly, I loved those too. I suspect a great deal of it - as we are seeing with the Artura - is that first impressions last. While the 2017 launch 720s were ballistically fast they had a variety of early-development problems that coloured perception of the cars - journalists tend to review when the car first comes out. I know Harry looked at the 720 spider again as a used proposition when prices were much lower and was positive then, but there's also always been a slightly marmite thing about the styling. Perhaps now that recent Ferraris - Roma aside - have not been, shall we say, lookers opinions of the 7x0 styling have warmed.

Thank you for the insights. A 720S has been in my list for a while and Harry’s review put me off. Then with Covid prices going mental I have backed off. Even now the absolute bottom of the market, accident damaged car, is still £150k here in the US.

[br d]

The tank issue could be a calibration problem on the gauge as there is an already acknowledged calibration problem with the battery life indicator.

I agree on the comfort seats. Always had them on McLarens and I've done a lot of touring, I've found them brilliant no matter how tired or achy I am. I wouldn't even entertain buckets but I get they are a better option for track driving.

[Dr Interceptor]

This weeks one will be divisive!

Not for me, and not because I’m anti-EV (I have one on order), just the brand I dislike.

[Mammasaid]

Dr Interceptor said:

This weeks one will be divisive!

Not for me, and not because I’m anti-EV (I have one on order), just the brand I dislike.

And a new Harry's Farm (will watch this 1st over the Garage film)

[DonkeyApple]

Dr Interceptor said:

This weeks one will be divisive!

Not for me, and not because I’m anti-EV (I have one on order), just the brand I dislike.

Tesla?

[E90_M3Ross]

DonkeyApple said:

Dr Interceptor said:

This weeks one will be divisive!

Not for me, and not because I’m anti-EV (I have one on order), just the brand I dislike.

Tesla?

Just looked, yes. Will watch it shortly.

[mywifeshusband]

Love Stanley.

[964Cup]

br d said:

The tank issue could be a calibration problem on the gauge as there is an already acknowledged calibration problem with the battery life indicator.

I agree on the comfort seats. Always had them on McLarens and I've done a lot of touring, I've found them brilliant no matter how tired or achy I am. I wouldn't even entertain buckets but I get they are a better option for track driving.

The battery calibration has been fixed - get your dealer to update your software if you haven't already. The tank thing is a "feature" not a bug - and has been discussed here before. It passeth all understanding - the more so since you can't even get a proper reading from the OBD-II port.

[limpsfield]

It was Harry’s video on the Tesla from years ago that pushed me over the edge and decided to get one.

I would also not be a fan of the indicators on the steering wheel, or the removal of the gear change from the stalk as it is on mine.

One small error - you can adjust the radar cruise, how near you are to the car in front, by using the scroll wheel on the steering wheel. I am assuming it is the same on the new version.

[E90_M3Ross]

Interesting review..... But also very little on how it actually is to drive from an enthusiast's perspective.

[ArgonautX]

E90_M3Ross said:

Interesting review..... But also very little on how it actually is to drive from an enthusiast's perspective.

he actually did comment on it, far too much ESP intervention to be an enthusiast choice.

I don't know... EVs generally don't do it for me, with the exception of small city cars like Citroen Ami and like... those I like, they make sense to me, even though I still think they're too expensive if you're not renting/leasing them.