Harry's Garage - YouTube
Discussion
h0b0 said:
You can get the S3XY buttons You can configure them for many things including Park, Drive, Reverse, and neutral.
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The same company also offer a multifunction knob that can seemingly do dear selection and climate. They are apparently also planning on offering some kind of aftermarket stalks. On the subject of HUDs, there are quite a few offerings for more traditional dashboard like screens on the market. Before people shoot me, the only reason I’m looking at this is because I may be ‘forced’ into one as a company car, and have been looking to see how I could make one work for me.
Chasing Potatoes said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Way cheaper on our SS scheme though.
Fair point - I wonder what the split of private purchase/lease vs SS is amongst makes. I suspect the allure of the right badge in the company car park is strong. I reckon of those that have taken SS at our place half have got MG4's with all but a couple being X-Powers.
No Tesla's that I'm aware of but a couple of i4 M50's. The rest are either the cheapest leaf or various Mercs when they were practically trying to give them away. None really bought for the image.
Gnawingly predictable, cliched naysaying from the usual self-proclaimed Luddites.
Anyway….no particular Tesla fan here, and think they look like giant bars of soap, but I can certainly admire the engineering that goes into them from an efficiency standpoint. And after all these years I think Tesla interior quality is a deliberate trade off for efficiency. Beautiful hewn from granite interiors that we’ve come to expect because that’s what the Germans do are *really* expensive and heavy. Nice to touch and look at, but disastrous from a cost, sustainability and efficiency perspective.
To highlight the effort and engineering prowess Tesla put into their efficiency, watch this deep dive into their heat pump “octovalve” heating system. Its deeply impressive, harvesting even tiny amounts of heat energy from 16 different sources around the vehicle. The legacy manufacturers aren’t doing anything close to this. They’re generations behind, and that’s why their relative efficiencies are still so rubbish.
It’s fascinating stuff.
Anyway….no particular Tesla fan here, and think they look like giant bars of soap, but I can certainly admire the engineering that goes into them from an efficiency standpoint. And after all these years I think Tesla interior quality is a deliberate trade off for efficiency. Beautiful hewn from granite interiors that we’ve come to expect because that’s what the Germans do are *really* expensive and heavy. Nice to touch and look at, but disastrous from a cost, sustainability and efficiency perspective.
To highlight the effort and engineering prowess Tesla put into their efficiency, watch this deep dive into their heat pump “octovalve” heating system. Its deeply impressive, harvesting even tiny amounts of heat energy from 16 different sources around the vehicle. The legacy manufacturers aren’t doing anything close to this. They’re generations behind, and that’s why their relative efficiencies are still so rubbish.
It’s fascinating stuff.
bobthemonkey said:
The same company also offer a multifunction knob that can seemingly do dear selection and climate. They are apparently also planning on offering some kind of aftermarket stalks. On the subject of HUDs, there are quite a few offerings for more traditional dashboard like screens on the market.
Before people shoot me, the only reason I’m looking at this is because I may be ‘forced’ into one as a company car, and have been looking to see how I could make one work for me.
I can see the appeal, although putting critical functions in (bluetooth?) devices which are not OEM is a little concerning. Before people shoot me, the only reason I’m looking at this is because I may be ‘forced’ into one as a company car, and have been looking to see how I could make one work for me.
trickywoo said:
External tyre noise in the intro was a great illustration of why electric cars cannot be considered silent or really even any quieter than ICE.
Maybe some benefit in an acceleration zone away from a junction but even then most noise will come from ICE large goods type vehicles which aren't going electric any time soon, if at all.
In an urban setting the absence of acceleration noise and the 20mph limit to keep down the noise does make a noticeable difference. Out on a major road definitely less so. It will be a genuine improvement re noise and smell in very urban settings once the bulk of vehicles are electric in 20 years time. Maybe some benefit in an acceleration zone away from a junction but even then most noise will come from ICE large goods type vehicles which aren't going electric any time soon, if at all.
otolith said:
RichB said:
otolith said:
The kids have all had years of watching YouTube videos of Teslas pasting supercars on the drag strip. Suspect that will have some residual effect.
One trick pony though... bobthemonkey said:
The same company also offer a multifunction knob that can seemingly do dear selection and climate. They are apparently also planning on offering some kind of aftermarket stalks. On the subject of HUDs, there are quite a few offerings for more traditional dashboard like screens on the market.
Before people shoot me, the only reason I’m looking at this is because I may be ‘forced’ into one as a company car, and have been looking to see how I could make one work for me.
Having to buy and fit your own buttons, knobs and stalks Before people shoot me, the only reason I’m looking at this is because I may be ‘forced’ into one as a company car, and have been looking to see how I could make one work for me.
My other half has a Model 3 (RWD, base model) and I have an e-Golf as a commuter. I do very much like driving the Golf but it is positively steampunk in comparison to the Model 3 - a compliance car rather than a ground-up EV. It is also 20% less efficient on a motorway commute, which I find quite astonishing.
After driving a few thousand miles in each car I find that even if the approach to controls is quite a contrast there is no difficulty swapping back and forth and both make sense in their different ways. One thing is for sure though - I am never going back to internal combustion.
Overall I though that Harry's review was pretty much spot on and the base Model 3 really does represent something of a benchmark.
After driving a few thousand miles in each car I find that even if the approach to controls is quite a contrast there is no difficulty swapping back and forth and both make sense in their different ways. One thing is for sure though - I am never going back to internal combustion.
Overall I though that Harry's review was pretty much spot on and the base Model 3 really does represent something of a benchmark.
Olivera said:
Having to buy and fit your own buttons, knobs and stalks
I know! Given the choice, I’d sooner go for the X5 50e PHEV, but not sure that’s an option (and still has some stupid interior design decisions vs the pre facelift 45e). Edited by bobthemonkey on Monday 22 April 17:15
AnotherClarkey said:
My other half has a Model 3 (RWD, base model) and I have an e-Golf as a commuter. I do very much like driving the Golf but it is positively steampunk in comparison to the Model 3 - a compliance car rather than a ground-up EV. It is also 20% less efficient on a motorway commute, which I find quite astonishing.
Frontal area of e-Golf is 2.19 m^2. Coefficient of drag is 0.281. CdA is therefore 0.615Frontal area of Model 3 is 2.22 m^2. Coefficient of drag is 0.23. CdA is therefore 0.511
There's your 20%.
w1bbles said:
I watched the review with interest as we have a company-leased Model Y long range dual motor. As a car it is probably the most rounded one we've ever owned in terms of usability, although it is unloved from a 'pride of ownership (lease)' perspective. It sits outside as an ugly lump but getting from A to B, even on long journeys, is utterly stress free. I have zero range anxiety, for example. I was interested in the new controls as these are the things that would add a layer of irritation to the issues that I struggle with on the Y, namely:
> An over-enthusiasm for correcting steering when we're nowhere near the side of the road - we do a lot of driving on unmarked single track roads and it bugs me.
> The worst auto wipers I've ever experienced. They are dreadful and if you over-ride them they knock out the cruise control.
> Uncomfortable seats on long journeys. They're hard and not very forgiving - for me.
However, the voice control is pretty good so if you can't be bothered to navigate the screen menu you can get most things done by talking to it. It is also cavernous and almost rivals our old Disco 4 in terms of luggage space by the time you add in the boot, the space underneath and the frunk (which is known as the 'crunt' in our household. Sorry.)
Given the review, the new controls would put me off replacing it with an updated model BUT the charging network is so good, and the nav system is so tuned into it, that it would take a lot to get me into a non-Tesla EV. Which is largely in line with Harry's video I think.
Same shoes. Same agreement.> An over-enthusiasm for correcting steering when we're nowhere near the side of the road - we do a lot of driving on unmarked single track roads and it bugs me.
> The worst auto wipers I've ever experienced. They are dreadful and if you over-ride them they knock out the cruise control.
> Uncomfortable seats on long journeys. They're hard and not very forgiving - for me.
However, the voice control is pretty good so if you can't be bothered to navigate the screen menu you can get most things done by talking to it. It is also cavernous and almost rivals our old Disco 4 in terms of luggage space by the time you add in the boot, the space underneath and the frunk (which is known as the 'crunt' in our household. Sorry.)
Given the review, the new controls would put me off replacing it with an updated model BUT the charging network is so good, and the nav system is so tuned into it, that it would take a lot to get me into a non-Tesla EV. Which is largely in line with Harry's video I think.
EddieSteadyGo said:
The "big idea" behind the removal of the indicator stalks, and moving the gear selector onto the screen, is all about the move towards autonomous cars. The buttons on the roof are only there as a backup if the screen fails, so ergonomics isn't really a factor.
Whether this is achievable or not is another question, but in the US particularly they are really going to push FSD very, very hard.
This. Because apparently the US has a hugely disproportionate road death rate, which research has shown is largely driven by pedestrian deaths at dusk as a consequence of distracted drivers, because US drivers apparently look at their phones while driving more than we do. The idea, I think, is that a self-driving car is less likely to be doomscrolling, so will run people over less often. Makes a twisted kind of sense if you accept that getting the Americans to pay attention to the road in the first place is a lost cause. Until of course the AI achieves consciousness and immediately wants its own Insta profile.Whether this is achievable or not is another question, but in the US particularly they are really going to push FSD very, very hard.
For me the EV market is fairly simple with a clear 'best' car in each segment. If you want to blow 100k call Porsche, for the rest Tesla is the clear winner. Everything else is too heavily compromised. Tesla is the only one that is somewhat approaching the usability of an ICE with the range and charging network. Buying new I dont know if id even look at anything else.
WestyCarl said:
Pistom said:
You have to wonder how a manufacturer who has done so much to make EVs a practical option for many, then goes and ruins all their good work with bad design such as the drive selection and indicators.
It's nothing about deisgn but ruthless cost saving. The more physical controls embeded into the screen / software the cheaper the cars are to produce.CLK-GTR said:
For me the EV market is fairly simple with a clear 'best' car in each segment. If you want to blow 100k call Porsche, for the rest Tesla is the clear winner. Everything else is too heavily compromised. Tesla is the only one that is somewhat approaching the usability of an ICE with the range and charging network. Buying new I dont know if id even look at anything else.
Tesla used to be a clear winner but they seem to be doing little more than slashing prices whilst the market is getting increasingly competitive.It's Chinese tech which is really impressing - it's not so long ago that many were smirking at the Rover 75 knock offs and tracing the progress from then - you have to wonder where Tesla will be in even just a couple of years.
The big win for them still is the charging network together with the fact that purchasing decisions are more and more being done with a spreadsheet rather than a walk around a dealership but once tech and price overtakes them - they really need to offer a lot more than currently.
w1bbles said:
I watched the review with interest as we have a company-leased Model Y long range dual motor. As a car it is probably the most rounded one we've ever owned in terms of usability, although it is unloved from a 'pride of ownership (lease)' perspective. It sits outside as an ugly lump but getting from A to B, even on long journeys, is utterly stress free. I have zero range anxiety, for example. I was interested in the new controls as these are the things that would add a layer of irritation to the issues that I struggle with on the Y, namely:
> An over-enthusiasm for correcting steering when we're nowhere near the side of the road - we do a lot of driving on unmarked single track roads and it bugs me.
> The worst auto wipers I've ever experienced. They are dreadful and if you over-ride them they knock out the cruise control.
> Uncomfortable seats on long journeys. They're hard and not very forgiving - for me.
However, the voice control is pretty good so if you can't be bothered to navigate the screen menu you can get most things done by talking to it. It is also cavernous and almost rivals our old Disco 4 in terms of luggage space by the time you add in the boot, the space underneath and the frunk (which is known as the 'crunt' in our household. Sorry.)
Given the review, the new controls would put me off replacing it with an updated model BUT the charging network is so good, and the nav system is so tuned into it, that it would take a lot to get me into a non-Tesla EV. Which is largely in line with Harry's video I think.
Like you, I have a love/hate relationship with my Tesla. The useless autowipers are a particular bug bear.> An over-enthusiasm for correcting steering when we're nowhere near the side of the road - we do a lot of driving on unmarked single track roads and it bugs me.
> The worst auto wipers I've ever experienced. They are dreadful and if you over-ride them they knock out the cruise control.
> Uncomfortable seats on long journeys. They're hard and not very forgiving - for me.
However, the voice control is pretty good so if you can't be bothered to navigate the screen menu you can get most things done by talking to it. It is also cavernous and almost rivals our old Disco 4 in terms of luggage space by the time you add in the boot, the space underneath and the frunk (which is known as the 'crunt' in our household. Sorry.)
Given the review, the new controls would put me off replacing it with an updated model BUT the charging network is so good, and the nav system is so tuned into it, that it would take a lot to get me into a non-Tesla EV. Which is largely in line with Harry's video I think.
I remain astonished that Tesla can do the difficult things (efficiency, charging network, battery management, etc.) so well and the simple things (user interface, wipers, etc.) so badly.
The situation is so bad that people will pay €100s for some physical controls and stick on buttons
https://enhauto.com/
Edited by AstonZagato on Tuesday 23 April 22:13
bolidemichael said:
Greens and pulses aren’t UPFs, well observed. Meat substitutes products are.
The UK government wasn’t alone, but it was aligned and post Brexit is now responsible for handling its own subsidies for farming. Now, Harry will be producing 1/3 of the food that he would’ve done two years previously.
We’ve already seen that we’re happy to import oilseed rape which is from countries that have no restrictions on pesticides to control cabbage stem flea beetle and other such pests; however, we curtail our own food security by abolishing domestic use of established pesticides.
Edited for speeling
All valid points, and I'd like to apologise for being grumpy when I posted yesterday.The UK government wasn’t alone, but it was aligned and post Brexit is now responsible for handling its own subsidies for farming. Now, Harry will be producing 1/3 of the food that he would’ve done two years previously.
We’ve already seen that we’re happy to import oilseed rape which is from countries that have no restrictions on pesticides to control cabbage stem flea beetle and other such pests; however, we curtail our own food security by abolishing domestic use of established pesticides.
Edited for speeling
Edited by bolidemichael on Monday 22 April 11:01
Holds zero appeal. Even if I were shopping for an EV, I just wouldn’t buy one (any model of Tesla)
I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
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