Harry's Garage - YouTube
Discussion
Chasing Potatoes said:
ajprice said:
The fix is a rivet to stop it moving around https://twitter.com/aaronjcash/status/178173476021...
https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/20/24135876/tesla-...
That's just hilariously embarrassing.https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/20/24135876/tesla-...
LM240 said:
Holds zero appeal. Even if I were shopping for an EV, I just wouldn’t buy one (any model of Tesla)
I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
I think Tesla have got onboard the "EVs are just white goods" bandwagon ahead of the rest of the world. All the others are chasing acceleration times, luxury and recharge speeds.I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
Once the rest of us else catch up to the notion that EVs only work if they're hugely efficient and purely functional, then Tesla's build quality concerns will be normalised.
I don't support EVs as the answer, and I certainly don't support Elon Musk, but I think he's closer to the paradigm than everyone else.
LM240 said:
Holds zero appeal. Even if I were shopping for an EV, I just wouldn’t buy one (any model of Tesla)
I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
I think it's an EV thing, although admittedly I am a fully paid up member of the EV skeptic society, but I remember coveting E types and Countaches or fast Beemers and AMG V8 Mercs forever and probably still do. There's absolutely no EV on sale today I would say could ever fall into that category. The M3 is no doubt effective at what it does, but then so is a train or a bus. Or even a 'fridge. They're just emotionless functional objects with a pre-determined lifespan and clear purpose, but no one sane is going to push themselves to work extra hard for one in the same way as they maybe would for an emotional purchase like say, a Ferrari, a Porsche or even a quick Audi.I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
Not to mention cars were previously status symbols but an EV now just says 'cost conscious' in the same way as a diesel driver did in the 1990s or a clear company purchase purely for the tax subsidies. Poor b
ds quite frankly, to be pitied rather than envied unfortunately. trumpton7291 said:
LM240 said:
Holds zero appeal. Even if I were shopping for an EV, I just wouldn’t buy one (any model of Tesla)
I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
I think it's an EV thing, although admittedly I am a fully paid up member of the EV skeptic society, but I remember coveting E types and Countaches or fast Beemers and AMG V8 Mercs forever and probably still do. There's absolutely no EV on sale today I would say could ever fall into that category. The M3 is no doubt effective at what it does, but then so is a train or a bus. Or even a 'fridge. They're just emotionless functional objects with a pre-determined lifespan and clear purpose, but no one sane is going to push themselves to work extra hard for one in the same way as they maybe would for an emotional purchase like say, a Ferrari, a Porsche or even a quick Audi.I just don’t like the things. I don’t see any brand appeal or match up with price and quality. Dislike how they look and would hate the controls.
Drove one on holiday and it was depressing. Ran my fingers along the panel gaps and was astonished at the inconsistency.
It isn’t an EV thing, just for whatever reason the brand holds no appeal.
Not to mention cars were previously status symbols but an EV now just says 'cost conscious' in the same way as a diesel driver did in the 1990s or a clear company purchase purely for the tax subsidies. Poor b
ds quite frankly, to be pitied rather than envied unfortunately. Yet, most of us here would covet the E Types, Countach's etc - that does not make you stand out.
Also, most here who fall in the above, who have a Tesla are more than happy with how "it works' as a car.
These are not mutually exclusive.
loudlashadjuster said:
thegreenhell said:
I wish people would stop referring to Teslas as M3s.
+1Maybe understandable on a Tesla forum, but unforgivable for anyone who deigns to call themself an enthusiast on a site like PH
Doofus said:
I think Tesla have got onboard the "EVs are just white goods" bandwagon ahead of the rest of the world. All the others are chasing acceleration times, luxury and recharge speeds.
Once the rest of us else catch up to the notion that EVs only work if they're hugely efficient and purely functional, then Tesla's build quality concerns will be normalised.
I don't support EVs as the answer, and I certainly don't support Elon Musk, but I think he's closer to the paradigm than everyone else.
Yeah, the Tesla does seem best in class at the moment when it comes to EVs that people want to buy. What are the alternatives if you want a £45k EV car that just does the EV stuff without any drama?Once the rest of us else catch up to the notion that EVs only work if they're hugely efficient and purely functional, then Tesla's build quality concerns will be normalised.
I don't support EVs as the answer, and I certainly don't support Elon Musk, but I think he's closer to the paradigm than everyone else.
MesoForm said:
Doofus said:
I think Tesla have got onboard the "EVs are just white goods" bandwagon ahead of the rest of the world. All the others are chasing acceleration times, luxury and recharge speeds.
Once the rest of us else catch up to the notion that EVs only work if they're hugely efficient and purely functional, then Tesla's build quality concerns will be normalised.
I don't support EVs as the answer, and I certainly don't support Elon Musk, but I think he's closer to the paradigm than everyone else.
Yeah, the Tesla does seem best in class at the moment when it comes to EVs that people want to buy. What are the alternatives if you want a £45k EV car that just does the EV stuff without any drama?Once the rest of us else catch up to the notion that EVs only work if they're hugely efficient and purely functional, then Tesla's build quality concerns will be normalised.
I don't support EVs as the answer, and I certainly don't support Elon Musk, but I think he's closer to the paradigm than everyone else.
EVs need to be small and light to be efficient. Tesla entered the market without any history, so they couod do that, but the other manufacturers are trying to hold onto thier reputational luxury, or performance or whatever, and to do that with any credible range, their only option is bigger batteries which beget bigger cars with greater weight which demand bigger batteries and so on.
EVs are not our only future, and at the moment, I think synthetic fuels are coming up on the rail. If that happens, then manufacturers will be able to continue to build their aspirational fast, or luxurious, or 8 seat, or convertible or sporty cars with ICEs, and also the new small, simple, efficient BEVs for urban use.
Because EVs are generally so expensive, most families who want one have to make the decision to have only one car. If EVs were small and cheap then people could have one of those for the daily grind and something else for longer distances, or carrying passengers (something most drivers do very rarely), or going for an entertaining drive.
trumpton7291 said:
Not to mention cars were previously status symbols but an EV now just says 'cost conscious' in the same way as a diesel driver did in the 1990s or a clear company purchase purely for the tax subsidies. Poor bds quite frankly, to be pitied rather than envied unfortunately.
ds quite frankly, to be pitied rather than envied unfortunately. 
My Tesla M3 is a company car. Don't pity me, it saves me over £4k a year in tax (comnpared to an ICE) while still being quiet and pretty quick down an A road. That £4k the government doesn't get goes into my fun weekend car for more upgrades.Pistom said:
Tesla used to be a clear winner but they seem to be doing little more than slashing prices whilst the market is getting increasingly competitive.
It's Chinese tech which is really impressing - it's not so long ago that many were smirking at the Rover 75 knock offs and tracing the progress from then - you have to wonder where Tesla will be in even just a couple of years.
The big win for them still is the charging network together with the fact that purchasing decisions are more and more being done with a spreadsheet rather than a walk around a dealership but once tech and price overtakes them - they really need to offer a lot more than currently.
I don't know about that. Had a look at a few MGs, the joke is they're washing machines/microwaves/other white goods but they really do feel like they're made of the same stuff. They're like a statement that youve given up on life.It's Chinese tech which is really impressing - it's not so long ago that many were smirking at the Rover 75 knock offs and tracing the progress from then - you have to wonder where Tesla will be in even just a couple of years.
The big win for them still is the charging network together with the fact that purchasing decisions are more and more being done with a spreadsheet rather than a walk around a dealership but once tech and price overtakes them - they really need to offer a lot more than currently.
Doofus said:
Because EVs are generally so expensive, most families who want one have to make the decision to have only one car. If EVs were small and cheap then people could have one of those for the daily grind and something else for longer distances, or carrying passengers (something most drivers do very rarely), or going for an entertaining drive.
Our EV is £200 per month, I doubt you can run a brand new car cheaper. It does 95% of our journeys and 90% of our miles, ie the daily grind. So we can afford to run a larger car for longer journeys and family trips (rather than using a 30mpg car for everything) and makes me appreciate a toy for weekends.trumpton7291 said:
Not to mention cars were previously status symbols but an EV now just says 'cost conscious' in the same way as a diesel driver did in the 1990s or a clear company purchase purely for the tax subsidies. Poor bds quite frankly, to be pitied rather than envied unfortunately.
Not necessarily. For many people who don't care about cars an EV can be better for their needs. If you can charge at home then many people see them as more convenience, generally being quieter and more refined an often offering better performance etc.ds quite frankly, to be pitied rather than envied unfortunately. They aren't for me, but I can see the appeal over an ICE. Most ICE cars are humdrum crap and the "cost" thing Could be argued against just about any car where there is a more expensive, similar product.
Doofus said:
My point is that most manufacturers don't dare make EV's "without any drama". They are trying to pivot their long-held touchpoints into a product which doesn't value them.
EVs need to be small and light to be efficient. Tesla entered the market without any history, so they couod do that, but the other manufacturers are trying to hold onto thier reputational luxury, or performance or whatever, and to do that with any credible range, their only option is bigger batteries which beget bigger cars with greater weight which demand bigger batteries and so on.
EVs are not our only future, and at the moment, I think synthetic fuels are coming up on the rail. If that happens, then manufacturers will be able to continue to build their aspirational fast, or luxurious, or 8 seat, or convertible or sporty cars with ICEs, and also the new small, simple, efficient BEVs for urban use.
Because EVs are generally so expensive, most families who want one have to make the decision to have only one car. If EVs were small and cheap then people could have one of those for the daily grind and something else for longer distances, or carrying passengers (something most drivers do very rarely), or going for an entertaining drive.
New EV's a pricey granted, but lightly used they are an absolute bargain at the minute.EVs need to be small and light to be efficient. Tesla entered the market without any history, so they couod do that, but the other manufacturers are trying to hold onto thier reputational luxury, or performance or whatever, and to do that with any credible range, their only option is bigger batteries which beget bigger cars with greater weight which demand bigger batteries and so on.
EVs are not our only future, and at the moment, I think synthetic fuels are coming up on the rail. If that happens, then manufacturers will be able to continue to build their aspirational fast, or luxurious, or 8 seat, or convertible or sporty cars with ICEs, and also the new small, simple, efficient BEVs for urban use.
Because EVs are generally so expensive, most families who want one have to make the decision to have only one car. If EVs were small and cheap then people could have one of those for the daily grind and something else for longer distances, or carrying passengers (something most drivers do very rarely), or going for an entertaining drive.
For the price of a new Model 3 LR (£50k) you could buy a 2 year old Polestar 2 with all the bells and whistles + a 718 Boxster.
E90_M3Ross said:
Not necessarily. For many people who don't care about cars an EV can be better for their needs. If you can charge at home then many people see them as more convenience, generally being quieter and more refined an often offering better performance etc.
Been running EVs as our family daily for 5 years now and this is exactly how we feel. Life long PH'er who still loves a good ICE cars, but EV's are just so much better at the practical stuff if you can charge at home and aren't doing 250+ mile trips very often.Edited by SWoll on Monday 22 April 21:09
Doofus said:
I think Tesla have got onboard the "EVs are just white goods" bandwagon ahead of the rest of the world. All the others are chasing acceleration times, luxury and recharge speeds.
Once the rest of us else catch up to the notion that EVs only work if they're hugely efficient and purely functional, then Tesla's build quality concerns will be normalised.
I don't support EVs as the answer, and I certainly don't support Elon Musk, but I think he's closer to the paradigm than everyone else.
I think that one genuinely impressive aspect of the whole brand is that they can build almost as cheaply as a Chinese brand, what is obstensively a white goods, stripped down product but with brand cache. Genuine cache rather than gold painted plastics. There are very few cases in history where a brand has managed that. Brand premium and cheap manufacturing. Arguably that is their true advantage over the incumbent, similarly premium/mid level brands. And more intimidating for the incumbents is that Tesla have been able to add quality in recent years while also cutting costs. Plus, for all the additional manufacturing quality of the mainstream competitors it's not as if their products are subsequently lasting years longer. If one considers a modern car to have a 15-20 year lifespan then Tesla's are looking like they won't be far off and even if they get tattier more quickly the compensation is continual upgrades to the software. Once the rest of us else catch up to the notion that EVs only work if they're hugely efficient and purely functional, then Tesla's build quality concerns will be normalised.
I don't support EVs as the answer, and I certainly don't support Elon Musk, but I think he's closer to the paradigm than everyone else.
CLK-GTR said:
I don't know about that. Had a look at a few MGs, the joke is they're washing machines/microwaves/other white goods but they really do feel like they're made of the same stuff. They're like a statement that youve given up on life.
I refer back to my earlier point. Walk around. Look at the average car. The vast majority of people don’t view cars like we do here on PH. Nothing to do with giving up on life, they just have other priorities. No doubt many would consider the money spent herr as utter madness. 
soxboy said:
Doofus said:
Because EVs are generally so expensive, most families who want one have to make the decision to have only one car. If EVs were small and cheap then people could have one of those for the daily grind and something else for longer distances, or carrying passengers (something most drivers do very rarely), or going for an entertaining drive.
Our EV is £200 per month, I doubt you can run a brand new car cheaper. It does 95% of our journeys and 90% of our miles, ie the daily grind. So we can afford to run a larger car for longer journeys and family trips (rather than using a 30mpg car for everything) and makes me appreciate a toy for weekends.Unreal said:
soxboy said:
Doofus said:
Because EVs are generally so expensive, most families who want one have to make the decision to have only one car. If EVs were small and cheap then people could have one of those for the daily grind and something else for longer distances, or carrying passengers (something most drivers do very rarely), or going for an entertaining drive.
Our EV is £200 per month, I doubt you can run a brand new car cheaper. It does 95% of our journeys and 90% of our miles, ie the daily grind. So we can afford to run a larger car for longer journeys and family trips (rather than using a 30mpg car for everything) and makes me appreciate a toy for weekends.That’s all it’s cost for basically 5 years. I did have to buy a £120 headlight a couple years back.
Doofus said:
EVs are not our only future, and at the moment, I think synthetic fuels are coming up on the rail. If that happens, then manufacturers will be able to continue to build their aspirational fast, or luxurious, or 8 seat, or convertible or sporty cars with ICEs, and also the new small, simple, efficient BEVs for urban use.
Normal people will just buy EVs for urban and extra-urban use. The problem I see with selling ICEs in luxury cars is that there won't be enough of them to support a fuelling network. Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff