Speed with Guy Martin - new series

[motorizer]

Again, I didn't say best people for the job, they could have gone to the bloodhound SSC team, the could have gone to an F1 team, hell they could have got NASA involved.
A university is accessible to people and I'm saying it was the right choice for a TV show.

[Antony Moxey]

PhillipM said:

Antony Moxey said:

ou could probably say that about every single world record though. Well it kind of does, doesn't it? It got a world best - if there's better out there then they can go ahead and prove it. But even so, doesn't your statement pretty much apply to every world record set - there's always something that can be improved upon.

Yep, but when it's quite basic things that are overlooked while they spend the cash ona a sexy carbon tub, I'm not sure how any can come on here and say they were the best people for the job. It's a engineering course, you're telling me there weren't people there that could have done that better if it is true that, as some alluded, it was only a team to meet diversity targets for C4, rather than one picked purely on merit?

Basic things that were overlooked by the camera - it's not an Open University broadcast. How can I say they were the best people for the job? Because they broke a world record that's why. Perhaps it was built such that it was good enough, perhaps it wasn't necessary to engineer it to do 200mph. Perhaps if someone else breaks their record that same team could break it back.

What they did worked, nobody died, it was fun TV. They built, successfully, something to break a world record, as far as I'm aware the brief wasn't to build the fastest thing ever ever ever.

[PhillipM]

motorizer said:

again, I didn't say best people for the job, they could have gone to the bloodhound SSC team, the could have gone to an F1 team, hell they could have got NASA involved.
A university is accessible to people and it's a TV show.

They didn't need any of the above though did they? Even joe bloggs sat in front of the TV can see some glaring issues from here...they made a lot of questionable engineering decisions to use their resources as they did, for people training to be engineers.

[MC Bodge]

Scuffers said:

mountain bike wheels do not see side-loads

They see all kinds of loads when hammering down a rocky
Mountainside, pinging all over the place, and when crashing. Ouch.


If you had quoted all of my post, I did suggest that more camber (probably a lot more) might have been a good idea for that reason though. 2 wheelchair rugby chairs bolted together and hinged might have been a good start

The problem is that the attempts in the series are, sort-of, being sold as state-of-the-art, when some aspects are actually (some interesting) back of a fag packet type efforts, with "records" that have a chance of being beaten.

[PhillipM]

Antony Moxey said:

Basic things that were overlooked by the camera - it's not an Open University broadcast. How can I say they were the best people for the job? Because they broke a world record that's why. Perhaps it was built such that it was good enough, perhaps it wasn't necessary to engineer it to do 200mph. Perhaps if someone else breaks their record that same team could break it back.

What they did worked, nobody died, it was fun TV. They built, successfully, something to break a world record, as far as I'm aware the brief wasn't to build the fastest thing ever ever ever.

Lets face it, it beat the record because they had a closed, steep hill and a lot of ballast, not because it was a better design than the previous world record holder.
Which, on a programme promoting UK engineering skills, and with the involment of a university team and associated resources, isn't really a great thing to say.

A lot of people on here seem to believe enjoying the show and questioning the engineering are mutually exclusive, they're not.

[JonRB]

motorizer said:

A university is accessible to people and I'm saying it was the right choice for a TV show.

I have to agree with you.

Besides, we already know what big name teams can achieve - it was at the 2000 GFoS, as they mentioned at the start of the show. The likes of Lotus, Bentley, etc. I was there that year and the gravity racers were amazing. Peter Stevens was involved with one of the cars and I got a smile and a nod from him as I was photographing his car.

It wouldn't have been much of a TV show, but I'd have loved to have seen what some of those cars would have achieved down that hill.

[PhillipM]

MC Bodge said:

They see all kinds of loads when hammering down a rocky
Mountainside, pinging all over the place, and when crashing. Ouch.

As Scuffers says though, part of the reason for the crash was the wheels deforming and steering in 4 different directions - you could see that on the footage. Not so much of an issue when you're crashing down a rocky mountainside on 2 wheels, as you don't need them to stay so close in alignment. A set of wheel discs would have probably cost about £50 to make and if you wanted to be fancy you could have make them a tight fit and bonded them to the rims to beef them up structurally as well as improve the aero. Pity it crashed really, I'd love to see what next years team could do with it by building off the tub.

Edited by PhillipM on Monday 17th November 12:35

[PhillipM]

JonRB said:

It wouldn't have been much of a TV show, but I'd have loved to have seen what some of those cars would have achieved down that hill.

I'd like to see the american bloke in his shed-built effort go down it.

[Antony Moxey]

PhillipM said:

Lets face it, it beat the record because they had a closed, steep hill and a lot of ballast, not because it was a better design than the previous world record holder.

How do you know it's not a better design? The two records were not made under the same conditions - perhaps the road the American used was longer and steeper, perhaps he used ballast too. The coverage of his attempt wasn't as comprehensive as Martin's so you didn't have a proper chance to analyse all aspects of his build and run. Perhaps if the American did his run at Ventoux he'd have been slower.

Having said all that they've built something that's beaten a world record - hopefully that ought to be enough to get people interested.

[omgus]

PhillipM said:

Scuffers said:

As a side-thought, if you got a Honda Insight, pump the tyres up to 60 Psi, and let that roll from the top, I suspect you would have gone faster.

Now there's an idea, right, who's got an insight?

The PHer helping build bloodhound has one actually.

Let's convince him to break two records.

[PhillipM]

omgus said:

The PHer helping build bloodhound has one actually.

Let's convince him to break two records.

Sorted, get him in here!

I'll go and get my scissors and some cardboard for wheel covers...

[Scuffers]

motorizer said:

Again, I didn't say best people for the job, they could have gone to the bloodhound SSC team, the could have gone to an F1 team, hell they could have got NASA involved.
A university is accessible to people and I'm saying it was the right choice for a TV show.

that's not really the point though.

Are Sheffield Hallam's engineering dept that poor?

it's not like they spent no money on this project, and yet their efforts look really poor, with several glaring issues with the design/build.

I also wonder who actually physically cut/welded that chassis up? (I'll put a fiver on it was none of the people shown on the show).

Look, as said, I think the idea of the show is spot on, the issues for me are the hap-hazard way the challenges are carried out combined with a over-sensationalised and dumbed down narration.

As I said on the last one, it's one thing for Guy to be brave and have the balls to do this stuff, but it's a fine line between bravery and recklessness.

As an example of this, look and the working life of Eric Brown, clearly not lacking in bravery, but still alive because of his meticulous preparation before every test-flight and ability to deal with issues as they came up, in his day, being gung-ho got you killed pretty quickly.

[joema]

He's a TT racer at the end of the day. You really think any of the challenges except for the pikes peak one have actually bothered him?

I'd say the hap-hazardness is what gives the program its appeal.

And good on them for having a team of women doing the work instead of usual beardy guy in a shed.

[monthefish]

joema said:

And good on them for having a team of women doing the work instead of usual beardy guy in a shed.

Why? Do you see it as being part of some inferior gender outreach program?

The team should be selected purely on ability - irrespective of gender; Contrived/forced quotas only go to worsen the cause

[Mattygooner]

I think you are completeley missing the point of the TV show and the audience it is aimed at, not a new thing on PH.

This is effectively a 40 minute show with adverts on at 8:00pm on channel 4, they simply do not have the time to include the preparation and work that went in to designing the various projects. They also have to appeal to a broad audience, one that does not have the slightest clue about engineering or the various forces to overcome/use. It has to be dumbed down and explained using simplified voiceover and experiments.

They clearly do not have massive budgets, and i think it is supposed to be a basic approach to breaking records whilst using the incredible talent at our many universities, not multi-million pound, commercially backed attempts. To compare what they are doing to the teams attempting to break the land speed record is laughable at best.

Asking questions is great, but i do wonder how many people on here can actually enjoy TV as they seem so busy analysing every single element and, in some cases, belittleing people based on 40 minutes of footage and very little evidence of the 6 months of work that went in to these projects.

[retrorider]

Going on his chatting up technique i think Channel 4 should now make a new series, Speed Dating with Guy Martin.

[PhillipM]

I'm sorry, maybe we should all go back to mindless TV drivel like Strictly instead of discussing a program that's there with an obvious aim to get people interested in UK engineering as well as entertain.

The budget thing doesn't wash, the universities have resources most small engineering teams would kill for, and the materials and work that went into the tub for this and the tandem project supports that, it's not a matter of budget at all - you could have made a faster cart with less budget than they used in the last episode quite easily for example, fairing the wheels could have been done for less money than a case of that bottled water cost.

I enjoy my TV when it's engaging me and making me think, not when it just something to watch and let my mind melt until I head off to bed, I enjoy that, so kindly refrain from telling me I shouldn't.

Edited by PhillipM on Monday 17th November 13:46

[PhillipM]

retrorider said:

Going on his chatting up technique i think Channel 4 should now make a new series, Speed Dating with Guy Martin.

I think they'll have to up the budget so he can get a bigger van.

[MC Bodge]

PhillipM said:

As Scuffers says though, part of the reason for the crash was the wheels deforming and steering in 4 different directions - you could see that on the footage. Not so much of an issue when you're crashing down a rocky mountainside on 2 wheels, as you don't need them to stay so close in alignment. A set of wheel discs would have probably cost about £50 to make and if you wanted to be fancy you could have make them a tight fit and bonded them to the rims to beef them up structurally as well as improve the aero. Pity it crashed really, I'd love to see what next years team could do with it by building off the tub.

Edited by PhillipM on Monday 17th November 12:35

Not perfect, but I think the wheels could have been fine for the task with different chassis geometry. ...but stronger is good, although solid wheels very harsh riding on a rigid chassis.

Bikes that keep the wheels aligned whilst hammering over rough terrain at 40 mph (wheels, frame, forks, bars etc) are best for handling and noticeable.

As I also said in my first post, though why not use less draggy wheels on the gravity racer anyway?

Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 17th November 13:48

[PhillipM]

MC Bodge said:

Not perfect, but I think the wheels could have been fine for the task with different chassis geometry.

Bikes that keep the wheels aligned whilst hammering over rough terrain at 40 mph (wheels, frame, forks, bars etc) are best for handling and noticeable.

As I also said in my first post, though why not use less draggy wheels on the gravity racer anyway?

Yes, I'm surprised they weren't running more camber as you say. As for the latter - well, apparently most of the vapid TV watchers on here think you need a multimillion pound NASA team to come up with clever idea's like wheels with a disc over 'em....personally I think a sheet of cardboard and some heli-tape might have managed a perfectly reasonable job...

Same with all the wishbones, all that bent tube, TIG welding and fabricated inserts to hold the joints (in the wrong place...) just to lock it all off solid when cornering speed was evidently an issue - instead of wasting all that money and time you'd be better off with an off-the-shelf composite leaf spring across the lot and have at least a little more isolation from the road surface and better aero for half the time and effort.

Edited by PhillipM on Monday 17th November 13:51