Star Wars: Rogue One
Discussion
marcosgt said:
Guvernator said:
No you aren't, I'm right there with you. Admittedly it has some decent scenes, the Hoth battle is glorious and of course the "I am your father" reveal is classic but it always feels way too morose to be a proper SW film to me. This is meant to be space opera fantasy, If I wanted to be depressed, I'd go and listen to an REM album. I remember coming out of the cinema as a wee nipper almost in tears and that feeling of sadness has stuck with me every-time I watch it now.
I also think it's very fashionable to quote ESB as your favorite ever since Kevin Smith did it and lots of people have been jumping on the band wagon ever since.
I'm with you too (although I quite like REM I also think it's very fashionable to quote ESB as your favorite ever since Kevin Smith did it and lots of people have been jumping on the band wagon ever since.
)Great opening, decent ending, but an hour of nothing worth watching...
M.
I like REM, and there are far better ways of being depressed than listening to them. The standard reply now is Radiohead (I like them too).
</off topic>
defblade said:
CrutyRammers said:
No sense of peril,
Seriously? I mean, we know the plans make it out but apart from that everybody dies. How much peril do you want?! 
durbster said:
This is one of the few times I disagree with them.
They've certainly made me think on a few things, but broadly I disagree, I think they've missed the point a few times. On some things we agree, I never liked the Calrissian Andor fella.Ahbefive said:
Yep its about as perilous as a film can get.
QUite, they could have survived, as the director originally thought the studio wanted, and erm, I did think most of them would, like the Dirty Dozen.CrutyRammers said:
Bit disapointed tbh.
Yeah it was full of nice geeky touches, but that's not enough.
And it had all of the cliches. Every single one. I swear if I see one more "spaceship flying low and clips something so crashes resulting in a big unrealistic slide along the terrain and everyone gets out as if nothing has happened" sequence I will scream. No sense of peril, little attachment to characters, it didn't grab me at all.
The ending was nice, space battle was fairly good, droid was great, general visuals were great....it was like a collection of good bits which failed to make a good whole. I'd hoped for better, probably shouldn't have.
You really have to see it more than once. I didn't like it after one viewing eitherYeah it was full of nice geeky touches, but that's not enough.
And it had all of the cliches. Every single one. I swear if I see one more "spaceship flying low and clips something so crashes resulting in a big unrealistic slide along the terrain and everyone gets out as if nothing has happened" sequence I will scream. No sense of peril, little attachment to characters, it didn't grab me at all.
The ending was nice, space battle was fairly good, droid was great, general visuals were great....it was like a collection of good bits which failed to make a good whole. I'd hoped for better, probably shouldn't have.
Halb said:
Ahbefive said:
Yep its about as perilous as a film can get.
QUite, they could have survived, as the director originally thought the studio wanted, and erm, I did think most of them would, like the Dirty Dozen.It wasn't that I didn't enjoy RO, it just could have been so much better, and I think I've just got fed up with making excuses "because it's star wars".
Watched it again with my 10yo son yesterday. It improved on a second viewing, with having to concentrate less on the who/where/what/why of all the planet hopping and character introductions, but I still think it was flawed.
Although he has seen all the previous films, my son came into this with almost no knowledge of the setting/plot of R1 (until we actually got to the screen we'd told him we were going to watch Ballerina with mum/sister!) but he had some interesting observations.
First off, after a bit of prodding to get past the 'say I liked it to please Dad' stuff, he says he didn't really enjoy it. "Too much jumping around, didn't really know what was going on" and he was constantly having to ask me who people were and why they were doing things during the film. He's normally pretty savvy when it comes to narrative so Rogue One's jumping about was obviously a bit beyond him.
Secondly, and surprisingly, he was quick to spot that Tarkin wasn't quite right, even though he probably didn't recognise him from ANH and he definitely had no idea about Cushing and the need for CGI.
He wasn't able to tie in the end of R1 with the start of ANH, but that's probably because he hasn't seen the latter in a year or so, a long time for a 10yo.
He also didn't like Cassian, and after two viewings I'm inclined to agree with him.
Fundamentally though my issues are still the Rebel Council scene (no better second time around), the ropey score and just the missed opportunities for beefing up some of the things the plot is built upon.
For instance, they could have popped in a quick scene early in the film showing a young Galen explaining the need for a huge quantity of kyber crystals to power the DS. This could have set up the 'Galen is indispensable' strand by inferring the project's reliance on his talents/knowledge, and shown tensions within the Empire over the cost/need for acquisition for such a large amount of kyber for the nascent DS project, tensions that would lay the groundwork for some of the later politicking between Krennic and Tarkin. Would've introduced a bit of impetus behind a lot of the Jedha stuff too.
Similarly, a few quick nods to Saw's earlier Rebellion contributions, his relationship with Jyn and his move towards extremism would have been welcome and would have explained the friction in the Alliance's relationship with him. We'd also get to care a bit more about him when the end eventually comes.
To make way they could have dropped the Daniel Mays scene. I get this was to illustrate that Cassian had "done terrible things" for the cause but surely we'd believe this without that scene. It did nothing to make him more likeable.
Although he has seen all the previous films, my son came into this with almost no knowledge of the setting/plot of R1 (until we actually got to the screen we'd told him we were going to watch Ballerina with mum/sister!) but he had some interesting observations.
First off, after a bit of prodding to get past the 'say I liked it to please Dad' stuff, he says he didn't really enjoy it. "Too much jumping around, didn't really know what was going on" and he was constantly having to ask me who people were and why they were doing things during the film. He's normally pretty savvy when it comes to narrative so Rogue One's jumping about was obviously a bit beyond him.
Secondly, and surprisingly, he was quick to spot that Tarkin wasn't quite right, even though he probably didn't recognise him from ANH and he definitely had no idea about Cushing and the need for CGI.
He wasn't able to tie in the end of R1 with the start of ANH, but that's probably because he hasn't seen the latter in a year or so, a long time for a 10yo.
He also didn't like Cassian, and after two viewings I'm inclined to agree with him.
Fundamentally though my issues are still the Rebel Council scene (no better second time around), the ropey score and just the missed opportunities for beefing up some of the things the plot is built upon.
For instance, they could have popped in a quick scene early in the film showing a young Galen explaining the need for a huge quantity of kyber crystals to power the DS. This could have set up the 'Galen is indispensable' strand by inferring the project's reliance on his talents/knowledge, and shown tensions within the Empire over the cost/need for acquisition for such a large amount of kyber for the nascent DS project, tensions that would lay the groundwork for some of the later politicking between Krennic and Tarkin. Would've introduced a bit of impetus behind a lot of the Jedha stuff too.
Similarly, a few quick nods to Saw's earlier Rebellion contributions, his relationship with Jyn and his move towards extremism would have been welcome and would have explained the friction in the Alliance's relationship with him. We'd also get to care a bit more about him when the end eventually comes.
To make way they could have dropped the Daniel Mays scene. I get this was to illustrate that Cassian had "done terrible things" for the cause but surely we'd believe this without that scene. It did nothing to make him more likeable.
CrutyRammers said:
No, look. I'm thinking of things like Das Boot, Band of Brothers, Apollo 13, Aliens, The Abyss, some of the scenes in Gravity. It's not enough just for characters to be in danger, they need to act like they are. Or if we're looking more at an adventure with larger than life heroes, Seven Samurai is probably a closer match. The heroes there may not show fear, but there is emotion and engagement, and we feel a sense of loss when they get killed.
It wasn't that I didn't enjoy RO, it just could have been so much better, and I think I've just got fed up with making excuses "because it's star wars".
For me, I did feel that. For all of them save Calrissian. It wasn't that I didn't enjoy RO, it just could have been so much better, and I think I've just got fed up with making excuses "because it's star wars".
loudlashadjuster said:
Watched it again with my 10yo son yesterday. It improved on a second viewing, with having to concentrate less on the who/where/what/why of all the planet hopping and character introductions, but I still think it was flawed.
Although he has seen all the previous films, my son came into this with almost no knowledge of the setting/plot of R1 (until we actually got to the screen we'd told him we were going to watch Ballerina with mum/sister!) but he had some interesting observations.
First off, after a bit of prodding to get past the 'say I liked it to please Dad' stuff, he says he didn't really enjoy it. "Too much jumping around, didn't really know what was going on" and he was constantly having to ask me who people were and why they were doing things during the film. He's normally pretty savvy when it comes to narrative so Rogue One's jumping about was obviously a bit beyond him.
Secondly, and surprisingly, he was quick to spot that Tarkin wasn't quite right, even though he probably didn't recognise him from ANH and he definitely had no idea about Cushing and the need for CGI.
He wasn't able to tie in the end of R1 with the start of ANH, but that's probably because he hasn't seen the latter in a year or so, a long time for a 10yo.
He also didn't like Cassian, and after two viewings I'm inclined to agree with him.
Fundamentally though my issues are still the Rebel Council scene (no better second time around), the ropey score and just the missed opportunities for beefing up some of the things the plot is built upon.
For instance, they could have popped in a quick scene early in the film showing a young Galen explaining the need for a huge quantity of kyber crystals to power the DS. This could have set up the 'Galen is indispensable' strand by inferring the project's reliance on his talents/knowledge, and shown tensions within the Empire over the cost/need for acquisition for such a large amount of kyber for the nascent DS project, tensions that would lay the groundwork for some of the later politicking between Krennic and Tarkin. Would've introduced a bit of impetus behind a lot of the Jedha stuff too.
Similarly, a few quick nods to Saw's earlier Rebellion contributions, his relationship with Jyn and his move towards extremism would have been welcome and would have explained the friction in the Alliance's relationship with him. We'd also get to care a bit more about him when the end eventually comes.
To make way they could have dropped the Daniel Mays scene. I get this was to illustrate that Cassian had "done terrible things" for the cause but surely we'd believe this without that scene. It did nothing to make him more likeable.
I think the narrative points you make in regards to introductions of characters and the jumping of locations would have been resolved with a crawl. Although he has seen all the previous films, my son came into this with almost no knowledge of the setting/plot of R1 (until we actually got to the screen we'd told him we were going to watch Ballerina with mum/sister!) but he had some interesting observations.
First off, after a bit of prodding to get past the 'say I liked it to please Dad' stuff, he says he didn't really enjoy it. "Too much jumping around, didn't really know what was going on" and he was constantly having to ask me who people were and why they were doing things during the film. He's normally pretty savvy when it comes to narrative so Rogue One's jumping about was obviously a bit beyond him.
Secondly, and surprisingly, he was quick to spot that Tarkin wasn't quite right, even though he probably didn't recognise him from ANH and he definitely had no idea about Cushing and the need for CGI.
He wasn't able to tie in the end of R1 with the start of ANH, but that's probably because he hasn't seen the latter in a year or so, a long time for a 10yo.
He also didn't like Cassian, and after two viewings I'm inclined to agree with him.
Fundamentally though my issues are still the Rebel Council scene (no better second time around), the ropey score and just the missed opportunities for beefing up some of the things the plot is built upon.
For instance, they could have popped in a quick scene early in the film showing a young Galen explaining the need for a huge quantity of kyber crystals to power the DS. This could have set up the 'Galen is indispensable' strand by inferring the project's reliance on his talents/knowledge, and shown tensions within the Empire over the cost/need for acquisition for such a large amount of kyber for the nascent DS project, tensions that would lay the groundwork for some of the later politicking between Krennic and Tarkin. Would've introduced a bit of impetus behind a lot of the Jedha stuff too.
Similarly, a few quick nods to Saw's earlier Rebellion contributions, his relationship with Jyn and his move towards extremism would have been welcome and would have explained the friction in the Alliance's relationship with him. We'd also get to care a bit more about him when the end eventually comes.
To make way they could have dropped the Daniel Mays scene. I get this was to illustrate that Cassian had "done terrible things" for the cause but surely we'd believe this without that scene. It did nothing to make him more likeable.
gregs656 said:
I think the narrative points you make in regards to introductions of characters and the jumping of locations would have been resolved with a crawl.
I agree that would go some way to help, but I get that they made a conscious decision to bin the crawl to distance Rogue One from the main Vader/Skywalker arc films.loudlashadjuster said:
I agree that would go some way to help, but I get that they made a conscious decision to bin the crawl to distance Rogue One from the main Vader/Skywalker arc films.
I'd be interested at what point they made that decision. Feels like it was meant to have one at some point to me. Halb said:
Just watched this, they make a few good points namely ropey CGI and the characters weren't really fully fleshed out BUT although they mention fan service a lot they don't really seem to understand it. This film totally nailed Star Wars for me and it's this that raised it above it's problems and made it a very good movie experience for me. Despite them claiming to be big Star Wars fans they don't really seem to get that, I dare any true SW fan not to take at least some enjoyment from this film.
Guvernator said:
Halb said:
Just watched this, they make a few good points namely ropey CGI and the characters weren't really fully fleshed out BUT although they mention fan service a lot they don't really seem to understand it. This film totally nailed Star Wars for me and it's this that raised it above it's problems and made it a very good movie experience for me. Despite them claiming to be big Star Wars fans they don't really seem to get that, I dare any true SW fan not to take at least some enjoyment from this film.
If you close you eyes R1 definitely nailed the soundscape of new hope era starwars but the rest was lacking any charisma.
ukaskew said:
Forgot to mention I took my nephew to a 12:30 showing during the Christmas break. Incredibly there were loads of 6-7ish year olds. One Dad had two very young kids who I saw leaving with both kids hands over ears after about 30 minutes.
I took my boys, aged 7 and 3. Youngest one was a bit wriggly (but quiet) for the first half but then got into it, especially the battle at the end.I much prefer joining or adding my thoughts after watching it than getting too involved in the hype....anyway...watched it yesterday.
I thought it certainly one of the better more enjoyable efforts.
BUT (tiny spoilers ahead)
I am getting tired of the same mini-arc single film as part of a larger arc.
kid loses parents, joins a human/robot duo, ends up in a big machine with a long drop in it whilst the guys fly along a path looking for a weak spot...red leader this and that...
I forgive it because it's done well...but I can't take much more.
I really liked the CGI'd characters...took me a while to cotton on.
I liked the droid too, as said he walks the line well between funny and effective.
I thought it certainly one of the better more enjoyable efforts.
BUT (tiny spoilers ahead)
I am getting tired of the same mini-arc single film as part of a larger arc.
kid loses parents, joins a human/robot duo, ends up in a big machine with a long drop in it whilst the guys fly along a path looking for a weak spot...red leader this and that...
I forgive it because it's done well...but I can't take much more.
I really liked the CGI'd characters...took me a while to cotton on.
I liked the droid too, as said he walks the line well between funny and effective.
I've just got back from seeing it with my nine year lad,great film spoilt by the f
king idiots in the cinema. I'd pay double,no triple to watch a no food screening, noisy pop corn, bags of sweets being opened and eaten noisily and then we had two girls behind us that laughed at everything, one had the most annoying laugh. I normally go last showing of the night, I take my coffee a hot water bottle and the screening is normally nearly empty.
king idiots in the cinema. I'd pay double,no triple to watch a no food screening, noisy pop corn, bags of sweets being opened and eaten noisily and then we had two girls behind us that laughed at everything, one had the most annoying laugh. I normally go last showing of the night, I take my coffee a hot water bottle and the screening is normally nearly empty.Quickmoose said:
I much prefer joining or adding my thoughts after watching it than getting too involved in the hype....anyway...watched it yesterday.
I thought it certainly one of the better more enjoyable efforts.
BUT (tiny spoilers ahead)
I am getting tired of the same mini-arc single film as part of a larger arc.
kid loses parents, joins a human/robot duo, ends up in a big machine with a long drop in it whilst the guys fly along a path looking for a weak spot...red leader this and that...
I forgive it because it's done well...but I can't take much more.
I really liked the CGI'd characters...took me a while to cotton on.
I liked the droid too, as said he walks the line well between funny and effective.
Have to agree with this, basically the same plot re-used in at least 5 films in the franchise now, misfit characters band together to blow up superweapon. For a standalone story they really could have have tried something a bit different, in fact the whole franchise really could do with moving away from that same basic formula. In TFA especially the whole Starkiller plot-line was basically irrelevant and ditching the whole thing would have made for a better film IMO.I thought it certainly one of the better more enjoyable efforts.
BUT (tiny spoilers ahead)
I am getting tired of the same mini-arc single film as part of a larger arc.
kid loses parents, joins a human/robot duo, ends up in a big machine with a long drop in it whilst the guys fly along a path looking for a weak spot...red leader this and that...
I forgive it because it's done well...but I can't take much more.
I really liked the CGI'd characters...took me a while to cotton on.
I liked the droid too, as said he walks the line well between funny and effective.
gtidriver said:
I'd pay double,no triple to watch a no food screening, noisy pop corn, bags of sweets being opened and eaten noisily
Amen to that brother!It really boils my piss too. One bloke in my showing sat through all the fking adverts then, just as the film was starting, opened a big bag of crisps and noisily munched every single one. EAT THEM BEFORE THE FILM YOU FKING w
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