Star Wars: Rogue One
Discussion
Rumblestripe said:
generationx said:
Rogue One was ok but I thought the lead character utterly without charm or personality.
Do you mean female?I want a lead character to be someone I can engage with, whether male, female, wookie, alien or robot. In this movie Felicity Jones' Jyn was almost two-dimensional as a character. It's a shame as she was superb in A Monster Calls (a personal favourite from the last few years).
generationx said:
Ah bless - are you getting angry and misinterpretting my post to be sexist? I hope you can cheer up and relax for the holidays.
No just taking the piss.And disagreeing I thought Jyn was as believable and multi faceted as one might expect in a "Space Opera". You may not be one of those who cannot "relate" to a character who is neither white or male but there are quite a few out there who think that way.
Peace out.
Rumblestripe said:
generationx said:
Ah bless - are you getting angry and misinterpretting my post to be sexist? I hope you can cheer up and relax for the holidays.
No just taking the piss.And disagreeing I thought Jyn was as believable and multi faceted as one might expect in a "Space Opera". You may not be one of those who cannot "relate" to a character who is neither white or male but there are quite a few out there who think that way.
Peace out.
Bit like all of those closet rapists who climbed onto the 'metoo' bandwagon, only for people to find they were the worst offenders. Is this true of you, I wonder....
ETA, I have never once based my love or critique of a character based on their gender, race or creed, and I suspect the majority do not give it a second thought. But you do. Why is that?
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 18th December 13:13
chris watton said:
Rumblestripe said:
generationx said:
Ah bless - are you getting angry and misinterpretting my post to be sexist? I hope you can cheer up and relax for the holidays.
No just taking the piss.And disagreeing I thought Jyn was as believable and multi faceted as one might expect in a "Space Opera". You may not be one of those who cannot "relate" to a character who is neither white or male but there are quite a few out there who think that way.
Peace out.
Bit like all of those closet rapists who climbed onto the 'metoo' bandwagon, only for people to find they were the worst offenders. Is this true of you, I wonder....
ETA, I have never once based my love or critique of a character based on their gender, race or creed, and I suspect the majority do not give it a second thought. But you do. Why is that?
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 18th December 13:13
DuncanM said:
Nice to see the love for this film, great story, well executed.
These films are still kids films, so getting the balance right is not easy.
Confession time, I love RoTJ! Everyone seems to hate it? :-/
Now, it appears, RotJ is viewed more dimly.These films are still kids films, so getting the balance right is not easy.
Confession time, I love RoTJ! Everyone seems to hate it? :-/
I find this odd. I *just* caught ANH, was shocked and stunned by ESB, and was right in the median for RotJ. In fact, I would say, as a SW movie, it was my generations. It's only recently it appears to have been disparaged, mainly due to the presence of ewoks. Yet, at the time, there was an unquenchable thirst for more "star wars", which was most certainly not sated by caravan of courage or droids.
The only complaint I have of RoTJ, was Chewie's "Tarzan call", which appears to have subsequently emboldened a certain Mr Johnson into thinking he could get away with all manner of trite excrement.
As an aside, metacritic gives it 60% most viewers have it as >80%. Likewise a lot of critics onanated over the last jedi, sponsored by andrex, the f
king frauds.zb said:
Now, it appears, RotJ is viewed more dimly.
I remember being underwhelmed at the time. It hasn't improved with repeated viewings for me. The original had the magic. The second one was a plain good story. The third didn't have enough of either to me at least. Hard act to follow of course.
I wonder what George Lucas would've come up with if he'd decided to embark on a full on Star Wars blitz throughout the 80s and beyond.
Edited by bloomen on Sunday 22 December 01:47
bloomen said:
I remember being underwhelmed at the time. It hasn't improved with repeated viewings for me.
The original had the magic. The second one was a plain good story. The third didn't have enough of either to me at least. Hard act to follow of course.
I wonder what George Lucas would've come up with if he'd decided to embark on a full on Star Wars blitz throughout the 80s and beyond.
I may be overly generous, as I got (exploding) speeder bikes, Rancor for my birthday. And an AT-ST and B-Wing for Christmas.The original had the magic. The second one was a plain good story. The third didn't have enough of either to me at least. Hard act to follow of course.
I wonder what George Lucas would've come up with if he'd decided to embark on a full on Star Wars blitz throughout the 80s and beyond.
Edited by bloomen on Sunday 22 December 01:47
Edit: may also be Ewok Gliders and catapults chucked in there IIRC. (As well as an absolute slew of mini rigs and figures)
To me, Star Wars has always been majorly about what you can imagine yourself. A lot of self proclaimed critics call this plot gaps. As a kid that's what I used toys and vehicles to fill in.
It may appear hypocritical that I think TLJ is a load of old toot, it's only from the point of view, that there are certain parameters of a story or character that are inviolate. If Harry Potter went "f
k this magic ste, I'm going to be an optician", Sherlock Holmes decided that sleuthing wasn't for him and stories rotated around daffodils, or Bond decided to be a taxi driver and there were 360 pages of the knowledge, before he declared he wasn't going north of the river at this time of night.Yeah, star wars fans can be the most infantile, pedantic pains in the arse, overly emotionally invested in the very thing that stunted them.
Anyways its near 3AM, I've got a good bit of Jameson to drink and some Techno to listen to.
Edited by zb on Sunday 22 December 02:29
RotJ is the first Star Wars film I watched a a kid and to me absolutely was Star Wars. Same for my wife who is the same age as me, she still has her Ewok cuddly toy.
I found Empire boring (Hoth aside) and to this day I still struggle with the Degobah stuff. I appreciate it now more I'm older but it's never been enough for it to replace it as a favourite.
For me both Rogue One and Return of the Jedi rank above Empire. I appreciate that's not 'correct', but these aren't high-art, they are as much about memories, enjoyment and even the toys/games etc as they are about individual movies.
I found Empire boring (Hoth aside) and to this day I still struggle with the Degobah stuff. I appreciate it now more I'm older but it's never been enough for it to replace it as a favourite.
For me both Rogue One and Return of the Jedi rank above Empire. I appreciate that's not 'correct', but these aren't high-art, they are as much about memories, enjoyment and even the toys/games etc as they are about individual movies.
I'd agree, it seems to be accepted wisdom that ESB is the best film of the OT but I don't agree. It has some great scenes but it's got a pretty downbeat tone throughout the whole film. The rebels get their arses kicked on Hoth, Han and Leia are on the run, Vader schools Luke and cuts of his hand FFS, in short my younger self left the cinema feeling pretty crap and that has always stuck with me.
In contrast ROTJ has a brilliant first 3rd with the whole Jabba's Palace\Sail barge thing, lovely build up and that 3 way, Endor\Space Battle\Throne Room finale with the brilliantly timed jump cuts between all 3 has yet to be bettered in any Star Wars film IMO.
In contrast ROTJ has a brilliant first 3rd with the whole Jabba's Palace\Sail barge thing, lovely build up and that 3 way, Endor\Space Battle\Throne Room finale with the brilliantly timed jump cuts between all 3 has yet to be bettered in any Star Wars film IMO.
You rebel scum.
ROTJ was always my favourite, the 3 way battle especially was great. Ok, Ewoks but nothing is perfect.
ESB never really did it for me, the battle of Hoth was a great start but apart from the big reveal it was all a bit meh. I appreciate it a bit more these days.
I never quite get the whole plot holes argument around the original trilogy. They were very simple stories and logically consistant, I don't beleive I've ever had anyone come up with a plot hole that actually was a plot hole.
ROTJ was always my favourite, the 3 way battle especially was great. Ok, Ewoks but nothing is perfect.
ESB never really did it for me, the battle of Hoth was a great start but apart from the big reveal it was all a bit meh. I appreciate it a bit more these days.
I never quite get the whole plot holes argument around the original trilogy. They were very simple stories and logically consistant, I don't beleive I've ever had anyone come up with a plot hole that actually was a plot hole.
zb said:
Now, it appears, RotJ is viewed more dimly.
I find this odd. I *just* caught ANH, was shocked and stunned by ESB, and was right in the median for RotJ. In fact, I would say, as a SW movie, it was my generations. It's only recently it appears to have been disparaged, mainly due to the presence of ewoks. Yet, at the time, there was an unquenchable thirst for more "star wars", which was most certainly not sated by caravan of courage or droids.
No, people thought it was iffy back then, mainly due to the ewoks and the change in direction. Before RotJ SW and Empire were mainly seen as family films but the swing in Jedi made a lot think it was being targeted at kids, especially to sell toys, as just a big advertisement, it's one of the main reasons why Lucas and Kurtz fell out and Kurtz left the show. I mean, it was still loved (that final act is amazing) but it had it's detractors over it's change.I find this odd. I *just* caught ANH, was shocked and stunned by ESB, and was right in the median for RotJ. In fact, I would say, as a SW movie, it was my generations. It's only recently it appears to have been disparaged, mainly due to the presence of ewoks. Yet, at the time, there was an unquenchable thirst for more "star wars", which was most certainly not sated by caravan of courage or droids.
bloomen said:
I remember being underwhelmed at the time. It hasn't improved with repeated viewings for me.
The original had the magic. The second one was a plain good story. The third didn't have enough of either to me at least. Hard act to follow of course.
I wonder what George Lucas would've come up with if he'd decided to embark on a full on Star Wars blitz throughout the 80s and beyond.
If Lucas hadn't been pissed off so much, we would have had Boba Fett as the big baddie in the third film, and then the EMperor would have been introduced in the fourth film. And LUke would have gone over to him!!The original had the magic. The second one was a plain good story. The third didn't have enough of either to me at least. Hard act to follow of course.
I wonder what George Lucas would've come up with if he'd decided to embark on a full on Star Wars blitz throughout the 80s and beyond.
Edited by bloomen on Sunday 22 December 01:47
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/2550...
What they should have done. Rogue one group should have either appeared to have been caught in some final explosion and considered lost or captured rather than most of them killed off.
Skip forward to the latest trilogy and a plan is underway to rescue them from some distant ice planet prison (maybe what gets the grandad cast together)
They take forward any new story interacting with giffer cast from the 80s rather than all the anonymous useless twits they got for the new trilogy.
What actually was made is laughably bad.
Skip forward to the latest trilogy and a plan is underway to rescue them from some distant ice planet prison (maybe what gets the grandad cast together)
They take forward any new story interacting with giffer cast from the 80s rather than all the anonymous useless twits they got for the new trilogy.
What actually was made is laughably bad.
Halb said:
zb said:
Now, it appears, RotJ is viewed more dimly.
I find this odd. I *just* caught ANH, was shocked and stunned by ESB, and was right in the median for RotJ. In fact, I would say, as a SW movie, it was my generations. It's only recently it appears to have been disparaged, mainly due to the presence of ewoks. Yet, at the time, there was an unquenchable thirst for more "star wars", which was most certainly not sated by caravan of courage or droids.
No, people thought it was iffy back then, mainly due to the ewoks and the change in direction. Before RotJ SW and Empire were mainly seen as family films but the swing in Jedi made a lot think it was being targeted at kids, especially to sell toys, as just a big advertisement, it's one of the main reasons why Lucas and Kurtz fell out and Kurtz left the show. I mean, it was still loved (that final act is amazing) but it had it's detractors over it's change.I find this odd. I *just* caught ANH, was shocked and stunned by ESB, and was right in the median for RotJ. In fact, I would say, as a SW movie, it was my generations. It's only recently it appears to have been disparaged, mainly due to the presence of ewoks. Yet, at the time, there was an unquenchable thirst for more "star wars", which was most certainly not sated by caravan of courage or droids.
bloomen said:
I remember being underwhelmed at the time. It hasn't improved with repeated viewings for me.
The original had the magic. The second one was a plain good story. The third didn't have enough of either to me at least. Hard act to follow of course.
I wonder what George Lucas would've come up with if he'd decided to embark on a full on Star Wars blitz throughout the 80s and beyond.
If Lucas hadn't been pissed off so much, we would have had Boba Fett as the big baddie in the third film, and then the EMperor would have been introduced in the fourth film. And LUke would have gone over to him!!The original had the magic. The second one was a plain good story. The third didn't have enough of either to me at least. Hard act to follow of course.
I wonder what George Lucas would've come up with if he'd decided to embark on a full on Star Wars blitz throughout the 80s and beyond.
Edited by bloomen on Sunday 22 December 01:47
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/2550...
To me the reality of it is that its easier to animate a character in a mask as there
is no need to do facial movments.
This is not obvious to little kids that watch this stuff then grow up with an over inflated
view of it all.
sorry just my 2 bobs worth and I dont really credit lucas with any plan. He got lucky a few times and did a lot of rubbish ideas as well.
Fundoreen said:
There does seem to be a lot of mythologising of such a minor character and I can only put it down to his appearance on some cheap star wars cartoon in the 80s.
To me the reality of it is that its easier to animate a character in a mask as there
is no need to do facial movments.
This is not obvious to little kids that watch this stuff then grow up with an over inflated
view of it all.
sorry just my 2 bobs worth and I dont really credit lucas with any plan. He got lucky a few times and did a lot of rubbish ideas as well.
How could you poo on our dreams like this? To me the reality of it is that its easier to animate a character in a mask as there
is no need to do facial movments.
This is not obvious to little kids that watch this stuff then grow up with an over inflated
view of it all.
sorry just my 2 bobs worth and I dont really credit lucas with any plan. He got lucky a few times and did a lot of rubbish ideas as well.
Fundoreen said:
There does seem to be a lot of mythologising of such a minor character and I can only put it down to his appearance on some cheap star wars cartoon in the 80s.
To me the reality of it is that its easier to animate a character in a mask as there
is no need to do facial movments.
This is not obvious to little kids that watch this stuff then grow up with an over inflated
view of it all.
sorry just my 2 bobs worth and I dont really credit lucas with any plan. He got lucky a few times and did a lot of rubbish ideas as well.
I don't think LUcas got lucky, he had lots of great ideas (just not so good at implementing them, he's a theoretical physicist not an engineer), and he attracted a lot of great people around him; he's just not a director, or an editor, or a writer, he had the best of all worlds back then, like a lot of creative sorts; Ridley Scott is a great example of this. That's how out there films got made.To me the reality of it is that its easier to animate a character in a mask as there
is no need to do facial movments.
This is not obvious to little kids that watch this stuff then grow up with an over inflated
view of it all.
sorry just my 2 bobs worth and I dont really credit lucas with any plan. He got lucky a few times and did a lot of rubbish ideas as well.
Boba Fett was always cool, and he was a big deal, nothing to do with a cartoon. When I was into SW in the 80s, he was one of the first toys I wanted, and my friends loved him as did popular media, some characters catch on, he was one; the voice, the mask, the attitude, the jetpack, the arm laser etc. Actors use all of their body. I've watched a lot of yt clips over a few weeks about Star Wars and one pointed out something to me that I hadn't realised, when Luke upholsters his gun in EMpire it makes a noise and catches BOba's attention and he turns his head, which is why he gets the drop on Luke in the next scene.
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