Captain America: Civil War
Discussion
Looks fantastic, hopefully it will be as good if not better than Winter Soldier which I think is one of the strongest films in the current Marvel line-up.
Nice to see the "good guys" duke-ing it out although I think it should be a pretty easy win for IM when you consider who else he has fought (and beat) in the past but they'll draw it out to add "drama"
Nice to see the "good guys" duke-ing it out although I think it should be a pretty easy win for IM when you consider who else he has fought (and beat) in the past but they'll draw it out to add "drama"
Halb said:
I dunno. A fella on super soldier serum can go toe-to-toe with the Hulk, so I think Tony's suit would have difficulty.
Really, I didn't know that? I've read a few comics but not enough to be an expert but I thought the serum only took people to the "peak" of human ability i.e. they are probably as strong as the worlds strongest man and have the physical abilities of a world class athlete which impressive though it is should still be a LONG way from going toe-to-toe with the Hulk or IM. Certainly in the films, Cap always seems to struggle when facing off against most super-powered opponents.
Guvernator said:
Really, I didn't know that? I've read a few comics but not enough to be an expert but I thought the serum only took people to the "peak" of human ability i.e. they are probably as strong as the worlds strongest man and have the physical abilities of a world class athlete which impressive though it is should still be a LONG way from going toe-to-toe with the Hulk or IM.
Certainly in the films, Cap always seems to struggle when facing off against most super-powered opponents.
I've read the comics, but a long time ago, they changed their minds too much, I'm going off the Incredible Hulk film, now it wasn't long, but the guy who became the Abomination (Blonsky?) was able to not die instantly against the Hulk. He had a version of the Super-Soldier serum. Though not identical..I think.Certainly in the films, Cap always seems to struggle when facing off against most super-powered opponents.
The fight didn't last long, and he guy did run off...but erm...
Ross says something like, 'he's doing it!!'.
Plus Cap has that shield.
Halb said:
I've read the comics, but a long time ago, they changed their minds too much, I'm going off the Incredible Hulk film, now it wasn't long, but the guy who became the Abomination (Blonsky?) was able to not die instantly against the Hulk. He had a version of the Super-Soldier serum. Though not identical..I think.
The fight didn't last long, and he guy did run off...but erm...
I thought I remember Hulk getting p*ssed off with playing with him and then giving him an almighty wallop to the chest, breaking all the bones in his body. The fight didn't last long, and he guy did run off...but erm...
However my comic reading friend and font of all knowledge seems to agree with your statement that Caps or any super serum soldier is a lot tougher than they look so what do I know.
Guvernator said:
I thought I remember Hulk getting p*ssed off with playing with him and then giving him an almighty wallop to the chest, breaking all the bones in his body.
However my comic reading friend and font of all knowledge seems to agree with your statement that Caps or any super serum soldier is a lot tougher than they look so what do I know.
Well I did say he ddin't die instantly. However my comic reading friend and font of all knowledge seems to agree with your statement that Caps or any super serum soldier is a lot tougher than they look so what do I know.
From what I recall, HUlk is trying to hit him, but can't. I do recall Blonsky running off (maybe after being hit?) and him sprinting like a nutter.
In one video they show that Cap's shield can take a whack from Thor's hammer, and it vibrates back (vibranium), but then in Winter Soldier a RPG knocks him back. So I think there is flexibility in the films.
GarryDK said:
No way Cap would stand toe to toe with Hulk. In the comics Hulk has been suggested to have enough power to split planets in half. Cap cant even pick up a car.
BUT he does have his SHIELD which seems to be his cop out, I mean his weapon that can defeat all I do get that discussing this kind of stuff is silly as the writers will power up\down any or all of the characters on a whim as it suits the story or mostly on who is the more popular character at the time.
Halb said:
The scene with Bucky and Cap against Tony looks ace.
It certainly does doesn't it and while part of me is very happy at how cool this fight is going to look on screen, I can't help but be a little saddened that Cap and IM come to blows. I know they haven't always seen eye-to-eye but I felt the journey they have taken over the last few films meant that they had at last developed a mutual respect for each other so it doesn't really make much sense in that context. However I know the Civil War story-line is a big part of the comics and very popular but I didn't really think it made sense there either other than someone probably thought "wouldn't it be cool to have all the hero's fight each other" and then made up some far fetched story to make it happen.
The line between IM and CA "He's my friend" ......"I used to be your friend"
Is great.
Tony's not a true villian and change in relationship and ideologies is very believable.
I'd still like to know how the Vision fits into this, with Thor and Hulk off doing their buddy-cop bromance movie together, he's the most powerful one left.
And he's on Tony's side. But his ideology would seem to fit with Cap better.
Is great.
Tony's not a true villian and change in relationship and ideologies is very believable.
I'd still like to know how the Vision fits into this, with Thor and Hulk off doing their buddy-cop bromance movie together, he's the most powerful one left.
And he's on Tony's side. But his ideology would seem to fit with Cap better.
Guvernator said:
It certainly does doesn't it and while part of me is very happy at how cool this fight is going to look on screen, I can't help but be a little saddened that Cap and IM come to blows. I know they haven't always seen eye-to-eye but I felt the journey they have taken over the last few films meant that they had at last developed a mutual respect for each other so it doesn't really make much sense in that context.
However I know the Civil War story-line is a big part of the comics and very popular but I didn't really think it made sense there either other than someone probably thought "wouldn't it be cool to have all the hero's fight each other" and then made up some far fetched story to make it happen.
My take is the opposite. I thought it was where Marvel grew up a bit. If people if powers existed, then the gov would try and control them behind or in front of the scenes, the fallout of public liability and insurance would be a legal requirement. (Watchmen/The INcredibles etc).However I know the Civil War story-line is a big part of the comics and very popular but I didn't really think it made sense there either other than someone probably thought "wouldn't it be cool to have all the hero's fight each other" and then made up some far fetched story to make it happen.
The fun thing with Civil War is that people's perceptions of who would stand where in a government crack-down is not accurate. This storyline was post Bush and Homeland security, so it was pretty Zeitgeist at the time, it tied in with stuff that BSG was doing. The whole how much security should we give up, how much should these people be controlled was a great storyline well above, 'let's have Cap fight Iron-Man', because heroes fighting each other over disagreements, confusion or mistakes is as old as the comics. This wasn't about the reason for fighting. This had a lot more to it. I think the subtle references of Cap in the Avengers films (with Tony and Fury) are a brilliant bricklaying of his unease with the world he finds himself in.
Halb said:
My take is the opposite. I thought it was where Marvel grew up a bit. If people if powers existed, then the gov would try and control them behind or in front of the scenes, the fallout of public liability and insurance would be a legal requirement. (Watchmen/The INcredibles etc).
The fun thing with Civil War is that people's perceptions of who would stand where in a government crack-down is not accurate. This storyline was post Bush and Homeland security, so it was pretty Zeitgeist at the time, it tied in with stuff that BSG was doing. The whole how much security should we give up, how much should these people be controlled was a great storyline well above, 'let's have Cap fight Iron-Man', because heroes fighting each other over disagreements, confusion or mistakes is as old as the comics. This wasn't about the reason for fighting. This had a lot more to it. I think the subtle references of Cap in the Avengers films (with Tony and Fury) are a brilliant bricklaying of his unease with the world he finds himself in.
Ok you've convinced me that the Civil War storyline was a good idea However I still think given how they've saved each others ars*s multiple times, it seems a bit contrived that they'd start having a full on throw-down over a difference in political opinion. If I had a disagreement with someone who saved my life, I might get a little upset but then I'd think you know what, he SAVED my life and he is entitled to his own point of view, not gang up on him 2v1 with another mate and start pounding on him without mercy.The fun thing with Civil War is that people's perceptions of who would stand where in a government crack-down is not accurate. This storyline was post Bush and Homeland security, so it was pretty Zeitgeist at the time, it tied in with stuff that BSG was doing. The whole how much security should we give up, how much should these people be controlled was a great storyline well above, 'let's have Cap fight Iron-Man', because heroes fighting each other over disagreements, confusion or mistakes is as old as the comics. This wasn't about the reason for fighting. This had a lot more to it. I think the subtle references of Cap in the Avengers films (with Tony and Fury) are a brilliant bricklaying of his unease with the world he finds himself in.
Guvernator said:
Ok you've convinced me that the Civil War storyline was a good idea However I still think given how they've saved each others ars*s multiple times, it seems a bit contrived that they'd start having a full on throw-down over a difference in political opinion. If I had a disagreement with someone who saved my life, I might get a little upset but then I'd think you know what, he SAVED my life and he is entitled to his own point of view, not gang up on him 2v1 with another mate and start pounding on him without mercy.
From what I took from the trailer was Cap saves Bucky from being killed/captured from IM/Shield and there is some sort of collateral damage. Which upsets the government, who want super heroes to be accountable and start the ball rolling with some saying this is a good idea Vs those that don't.And as anyone knows politics really can divide friendships.
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