Inside Jaguar: Channel 4 28/05/15 @ 2100hrs
Discussion
northwest monkey said:
The bit I didn't understand was the comment from Lord March about these cars being "replicas".
Ok, I get the fact they're "brand new" and not "old", but there was a chap that owned one of the original ones which had been involved in a fatal smash. By the look of it, there wasn't a lot left of it, and by his own admission, there was only one straight piece of metal left on the whole car. It's obviously been completely rebuilt from the wheels up and I can imagine the only original part on his car is the VIN plate.
So what's the difference between them?
To a point, but I bet that at least half of it was original.Ok, I get the fact they're "brand new" and not "old", but there was a chap that owned one of the original ones which had been involved in a fatal smash. By the look of it, there wasn't a lot left of it, and by his own admission, there was only one straight piece of metal left on the whole car. It's obviously been completely rebuilt from the wheels up and I can imagine the only original part on his car is the VIN plate.
So what's the difference between them?
Race cars are never going to be 100% original unless they have never raced.
That a world different from a recreation.
Program was ok but too much 'tv' bulls
t thrown in and not enough of the car being manufactured.
My understanding is that however much they try and make out 'they're exactly the same as the 60's ones' no they're not. Many manufacturing processes and substances have been banned since the sixties, asbestos, lead, cadmium etc. Did Jag use all these illegal substances to make the modern six?
Would have liked to see them make the engine block cylinder head etc.....do Jag still have all the tooling to make six one off xk engines? Also i'm no painter, but how can it cost £40k to paint a car!? Looked like they were using regular filler on the body too instead of lead?
t thrown in and not enough of the car being manufactured. My understanding is that however much they try and make out 'they're exactly the same as the 60's ones' no they're not. Many manufacturing processes and substances have been banned since the sixties, asbestos, lead, cadmium etc. Did Jag use all these illegal substances to make the modern six?
Would have liked to see them make the engine block cylinder head etc.....do Jag still have all the tooling to make six one off xk engines? Also i'm no painter, but how can it cost £40k to paint a car!? Looked like they were using regular filler on the body too instead of lead?
Edited by celicawrc on Friday 29th May 13:38
I like mark evans style, he is a good guy and a good presenter, I notice he was also given a producer/presenter credit ?
Still, to me this was an attempt by Jag to cash in on the fame of its past, and fair enough. However, for the money and based on no experience whatsoever I would pick the Eagle every time and twice on Sundays.
All Jaguar have done so far as I can see is convince 6 people that they have bought into something that only 5 others will agree with, whilst the rest of us seem to be more able to see it for what it really is.
a bit Emporers new clothes to me
Still, to me this was an attempt by Jag to cash in on the fame of its past, and fair enough. However, for the money and based on no experience whatsoever I would pick the Eagle every time and twice on Sundays.
All Jaguar have done so far as I can see is convince 6 people that they have bought into something that only 5 others will agree with, whilst the rest of us seem to be more able to see it for what it really is.
a bit Emporers new clothes to me
benters said:
I like mark evans style, he is a good guy and a good presenter, I notice he was also given a producer/presenter credit ?
Still, to me this was an attempt by Jag to cash in on the fame of its past, and fair enough. However, for the money and based on no experience whatsoever I would pick the Eagle every time and twice on Sundays.
All Jaguar have done so far as I can see is convince 6 people that they have bought into something that only 5 others will agree with as the rest of us seem to be more able to see it for what it really is.
Mark Evans said on the radio yesterday that there were over 300 people who applied to buy one so rather more than the 6 it seems! Still, to me this was an attempt by Jag to cash in on the fame of its past, and fair enough. However, for the money and based on no experience whatsoever I would pick the Eagle every time and twice on Sundays.
All Jaguar have done so far as I can see is convince 6 people that they have bought into something that only 5 others will agree with as the rest of us seem to be more able to see it for what it really is.
If someone were to find a race series that would accept their new Lightweight E Type and enter it. Would that mean that the car would cease to be a replica in Lord March terms and eventually be eligible for historic races that otherwise turned their noses up at it?
Could you enter one for the 2016 Le Mans 24 Hrs for example?
Could you enter one for the 2016 Le Mans 24 Hrs for example?
RobGT81 said:
The 6 cars have FIA homologation so can race in those series, not sure if that covers Le Mans Classic or if they need ACO papers too.
have to say it's all a bit odd...from reading up on it, when Jaguar built the 12 originals, they also make the tubs for the last 6, but never completed them as cars.
these 6 tubs have since been used as spares/bases for cars since, I assume with the chassis numbers of the repaired car (the Peter Lindner low-drag is one of these).
now, on that basis, they can legitimately claim originality.
the problem comes for recreations, (or as some would call them, replicas), nothing wrong with making them (several places already do make some superb ones), it;s the passing them off as classic/historics that's the problem.
As for Le-mans, no, even if original they would not fit the current entry criteria, all that leaves is classic le-mans, and I suspect if you know the right people, you could wangle an entry.
celicawrc said:
Program was ok but too much 'tv' bullst thrown in and not enough of the car being manufactured.
My understanding is that however much they try and make out 'they're exactly the same as the 60's ones' no they're not. Many manufacturing processes and substances have been banned since the sixties, asbestos, lead, cadmium etc. Did Jag use all these illegal substances to make the modern six?
Would have liked to see them make the engine block cylinder head etc.....do Jag still have all the tooling to make six one off xk engines? Also i'm no painter, but how can it cost £40k to paint a car!? Looked like they were using regular filler on the body too instead of lead?
I believe he was talking out of his rear end with the £40k paint quote.t thrown in and not enough of the car being manufactured. My understanding is that however much they try and make out 'they're exactly the same as the 60's ones' no they're not. Many manufacturing processes and substances have been banned since the sixties, asbestos, lead, cadmium etc. Did Jag use all these illegal substances to make the modern six?
Would have liked to see them make the engine block cylinder head etc.....do Jag still have all the tooling to make six one off xk engines? Also i'm no painter, but how can it cost £40k to paint a car!? Looked like they were using regular filler on the body too instead of lead?
Edited by celicawrc on Friday 29th May 13:38
Unless someone can explain otherwise
velocefica said:
celicawrc said:
Program was ok but too much 'tv' bullst thrown in and not enough of the car being manufactured.
My understanding is that however much they try and make out 'they're exactly the same as the 60's ones' no they're not. Many manufacturing processes and substances have been banned since the sixties, asbestos, lead, cadmium etc. Did Jag use all these illegal substances to make the modern six?
Would have liked to see them make the engine block cylinder head etc.....do Jag still have all the tooling to make six one off xk engines? Also i'm no painter, but how can it cost £40k to paint a car!? Looked like they were using regular filler on the body too instead of lead?
I believe he was talking out of his rear end with the £40k paint quote.t thrown in and not enough of the car being manufactured. My understanding is that however much they try and make out 'they're exactly the same as the 60's ones' no they're not. Many manufacturing processes and substances have been banned since the sixties, asbestos, lead, cadmium etc. Did Jag use all these illegal substances to make the modern six?
Would have liked to see them make the engine block cylinder head etc.....do Jag still have all the tooling to make six one off xk engines? Also i'm no painter, but how can it cost £40k to paint a car!? Looked like they were using regular filler on the body too instead of lead?
Edited by celicawrc on Friday 29th May 13:38
Unless someone can explain otherwise
Were the original lightweights given such expensive paint jobs? One would imagine shiny paint to rank pretty low on the list of priorities, yet quite a fuss was being made about the number of coats of paint and the finish of these new cars.
Whether they're FIA approved or not, it seems pretty clear that invitations to race, at some of the more established and prestigious meetings, will be pretty thin on the ground. That said, how many will really be raced anyway, as opposed to being squirrelled away as investments? Will Mr Devito really be slipping into his race overalls?
Edited by e21Mark on Friday 29th May 14:58
velocefica said:
I believe he was talking out of his rear end with the £40k paint quote.
Unless someone can explain otherwise
at a wild guess, I would assume that cost includes god knows how many hours fettling and prep time before paint got anywhere near the car, then they went on about 12 coats? then another few hours buffing the hell out of it.Unless someone can explain otherwise
add in a liberal dash of exaggeration, and hey presto £40K.
(to be fair, my interpretation of it was it would cost £40K to replace, so that's including the costs of the new panels, build, etc as well as prep and paint.)
northwest monkey said:
The bit I didn't understand was the comment from Lord March about these cars being "replicas".
Ok, I get the fact they're "brand new" and not "old", but there was a chap that owned one of the original ones which had been involved in a fatal smash. By the look of it, there wasn't a lot left of it, and by his own admission, there was only one straight piece of metal left on the whole car. It's obviously been completely rebuilt from the wheels up and I can imagine the only original part on his car is the VIN plate.
So what's the difference between them?
I can sort of understand it, because unless you draw the line somewhere, there's a strong incentive for someone in China to set up a factory and run off a few hundred Goodwood specials. When you're celebrating the original machines, you get into discussions about how original they have to be.Ok, I get the fact they're "brand new" and not "old", but there was a chap that owned one of the original ones which had been involved in a fatal smash. By the look of it, there wasn't a lot left of it, and by his own admission, there was only one straight piece of metal left on the whole car. It's obviously been completely rebuilt from the wheels up and I can imagine the only original part on his car is the VIN plate.
So what's the difference between them?
For a newly built machine, the biggest difference will be in materials and how they're formed - a lot of stuff used to be forged from 'monkey metal' which is cheap stuff often of slightly unknown quality, whereas now you can get your conrods machined from single crystal titanium billets. The difference then is a much higher rev limit and less of a tendency to explode.
Tuna said:
northwest monkey said:
The bit I didn't understand was the comment from Lord March about these cars being "replicas".
Ok, I get the fact they're "brand new" and not "old", but there was a chap that owned one of the original ones which had been involved in a fatal smash. By the look of it, there wasn't a lot left of it, and by his own admission, there was only one straight piece of metal left on the whole car. It's obviously been completely rebuilt from the wheels up and I can imagine the only original part on his car is the VIN plate.
So what's the difference between them?
I can sort of understand it, because unless you draw the line somewhere, there's a strong incentive for someone in China to set up a factory and run off a few hundred Goodwood specials. Ok, I get the fact they're "brand new" and not "old", but there was a chap that owned one of the original ones which had been involved in a fatal smash. By the look of it, there wasn't a lot left of it, and by his own admission, there was only one straight piece of metal left on the whole car. It's obviously been completely rebuilt from the wheels up and I can imagine the only original part on his car is the VIN plate.
So what's the difference between them?
These 6 cars are being made (by whatever means and materials) by the original manufacturer with allocated but unused chassis numbers...... LM is just being a pompous prick in calling them replicas....IMHO.
I still think Jaguar haven't done themselves any favours though by going down the 'Pebble Beach' route rather than making them truer to the finish of the first 12 made.
Probably wouldn't have sold them though had they done that
Scuffers said:
velocefica said:
I believe he was talking out of his rear end with the £40k paint quote.
Unless someone can explain otherwise
at a wild guess, I would assume that cost includes god knows how many hours fettling and prep time before paint got anywhere near the car, then they went on about 12 coats? then another few hours buffing the hell out of it.Unless someone can explain otherwise
add in a liberal dash of exaggeration, and hey presto £40K.
(to be fair, my interpretation of it was it would cost £40K to replace, so that's including the costs of the new panels, build, etc as well as prep and paint.)
Just part of the nostalgia industry which enables those blessed with bigger wallets than mine to invest obscene amounts of money in cars which very few people were bothered about until they became 'heritage'. If anybody has seen pictures of racers like this in period, or seen them in the flesh , they would know that the real deal had neither perfect paint nor designer luggage. Still , it keeps the likes of Octane's Robert Coucher in a job ......
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