Marvel Cinematic Universe

[highway]

MissChief said:

Thanos didn't appear in the MCU until the end credits scene of The Avengers, the fifth MCU movie.

Compare that to there being no 'big bad' after Endgame, if you dismiss Wanda from Dr Strange 2:

Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
Marvel Phase 4:

WandaVision (2021) [Disney Plus]
Falcon and the Winter Soldier (2021) [Disney Plus]
Loki season 1 (2021) [Disney Plus]
Black Widow (2021)
What If...? (2021) [Disney Plus]
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021)
Eternals (2021)
Hawkeye (2021) [Disney Plus]
Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)
Moon Knight (2022) [Disney Plus]
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022)
Ms. Marvel (2022) [Disney Plus]
Thor: Love and Thunder (2022)
I Am Groot (2022) [Disney Plus]
She-Hulk (2022) [Disney Plus]
Werewolf By Night (2022) [Disney Plus]
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022)
Guardians of the Galaxy Christmas Special (2022) [Disney Plus]
Marvel Phase 5

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023)
Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (2023)
Secret Invasion (2023) [Disney Plus]
Loki season 2 (2023) [Disney Plus]
The Marvels

If they were angling to Kang as the major Villain then they've spent too long building it. Eight movies to introduce new characters, some of whom haven't been seen or mentioned at all since their movie. Shang Chi? Nowhere to be seen. The Eternals? Seemingly in hiding again. No one talking about the giant alien now sticking hundreds of feet out of the earth at the North Pole? Thanos's brother? Hulk's Son? It's all just terribly written, poorly directed (and executive directed by Fiege) with everything taking far too long to come to a point again.

I’d agree with all of that. I would add, Marvel have an enormous roster of characters. You’ve seen the MCU do most of the better ones. They have squandered Iron Fist and Moon Knight. Quite why they haven’t used the X-Men or FF, years after buying them up, is another mystery.
The comics have tried to make successes out of the Eternals, Ms Marvel, Captain Marvel, Moon Knight, She Hulk and the like, more times than I can remember. These characters have proven repeatedly that they cannot sustain an attack moving series. Marvel know this.
It would be an enormous mistake for them to press ahead with Young Avengers.
They need to focus on the core characters that people care about. Not these weak sauce, F list characters that no one really cares about.

[SpudLink]

highway said:

They need to focus on the core characters that people care about. Not these weak sauce, F list characters that no one really cares about.

That description would have applied to the Guardians of the Galaxy, but they proved to be very popular when they reached the big screen.

It’s possible to make good films out of little known or unpopular characters. Just as it’s possible to make terrible films with the most popular characters.

[MiniMan64]

Worth remembering that the “original” six Avengers weren’t exactly A-list Marvel characters before those early movies came out.

There’s a reason other studios bought the right to the X-Men, FF and Spider-Man but not the others.

[ajprice]

I've pretty much come to accept now that Marvel was one big storyline from Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk in 2008 to Endgame and Spiderman Far From Home in 2019 (dates according to Wikipedia). Endgame was an ending and Spiderman cleaned a few last things up. Since then with the movies and Disney+ it's been a few good single stories (WandaVision, Spiderman No Way Home) among a lot of dirge (Dr Strange Multiverse of Madness, Eternals, Ant Man Quantumania). It's still a level above DC but peak MCU ended in 2019. Maybe James Gunn will make DC the good one now?

[highway]

MiniMan64 said:

Worth remembering that the “original” six Avengers weren’t exactly A-list Marvel characters before those early movies came out.

There’s a reason other studios bought the right to the X-Men, FF and Spider-Man but not the others.

Captain America, Iron Man, Thor and Thor have had their own comics in continuous publication, since the 60’s. They were popular enough to have been adapted for cartoons, shirts, action figures and the like way before the MCU existed. The only thing Guardians of the Galaxy had in common with the comic of the same name was the title. Everything else changed substantially.

[C5_Steve]

Watched S2 of What If?.... over Xmas, best Marvel content I've seen in a while. Every episode was very solid with some excellent ones thrown in.

I'll happily sign a petition to get Captian Carter her own live action film, best new character we've had from Mavel for a long time. A Captain Marvel/Black Widow team up film would be fantastic based on what we saw.

(Yes, I know Peggy isn't technically a new character she's an evolution of Captain Carter but still. More Hayley Atwell please slinging a shield).

[JagLover]

MiniMan64 said:

Worth remembering that the “original” six Avengers weren’t exactly A-list Marvel characters before those early movies came out.

There’s a reason other studios bought the right to the X-Men, FF and Spider-Man but not the others.

I was a casual Marvel fan back in the day but always thought the Hulk was one of their biggest stars.

[highway]

MissChief said:

Thanos didn't appear in the MCU until the end credits scene of The Avengers, the fifth MCU movie.

Compare that to there being no 'big bad' after Endgame, if you dismiss Wanda from Dr Strange 2:

Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
Marvel Phase 4:

WandaVision (2021) [Disney Plus]
Falcon and the Winter Soldier (2021) [Disney Plus]
Loki season 1 (2021) [Disney Plus]
Black Widow (2021)
What If...? (2021) [Disney Plus]
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021)
Eternals (2021)
Hawkeye (2021) [Disney Plus]
Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)
Moon Knight (2022) [Disney Plus]
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022)
Ms. Marvel (2022) [Disney Plus]
Thor: Love and Thunder (2022)
I Am Groot (2022) [Disney Plus]
She-Hulk (2022) [Disney Plus]
Werewolf By Night (2022) [Disney Plus]
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022)
Guardians of the Galaxy Christmas Special (2022) [Disney Plus]
Marvel Phase 5

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023)
Guardians of the Galaxy 3 (2023)
Secret Invasion (2023) [Disney Plus]
Loki season 2 (2023) [Disney Plus]
The Marvels

If they were angling to Kang as the major Villain then they've spent too long building it. Eight movies to introduce new characters, some of whom haven't been seen or mentioned at all since their movie. Shang Chi? Nowhere to be seen. The Eternals? Seemingly in hiding again. No one talking about the giant alien now sticking hundreds of feet out of the earth at the North Pole? Thanos's brother? Hulk's Son? It's all just terribly written, poorly directed (and executive directed by Fiege) with everything taking far too long to come to a point again.

I’d agree with all of that. I would add, Marvel have an enormous roster of characters. You’ve seen the MCU do most of the better ones. They have squandered Iron Fist and Moon Knight. Quite why they haven’t used the X-Men or FF, years after buying them up, is another mystery.
The comics have tried to make successes out of the Eternals, Ms Marvel, Captain Marvel, Moon Knight, She Hulk and the like, more times than I can remember. These characters have proven repeatedly that they cannot sustain an attack moving series. Marvel know this.
It would be an enormous mistake for them to press ahead with Young Avengers.
They need to focus on the core characters that people care about. Not these weak sauce, F list characters that no one really cares about.

[MissChief]

C5_Steve said:

Watched S2 of What If?.... over Xmas, best Marvel content I've seen in a while. Every episode was very solid with some excellent ones thrown in.

I'll happily sign a petition to get Captian Carter her own live action film, best new character we've had from Mavel for a long time. A Captain Marvel/Black Widow team up film would be fantastic based on what we saw.

(Yes, I know Peggy isn't technically a new character she's an evolution of Captain Carter but still. More Hayley Atwell please slinging a shield).

I really liked the Nebula Nova Corps episode, very bladerunner. Would love a series on that!

[ajprice]

Ant Man and the Wasp Quantumania is the first MCU film to be nominated in the Razzies, and it's up for several of them. https://screenrant.com/mcu-razzie-nomination-first...

Worst Supporting Actor (x2 for Michael Douglas and Bill Murray)
Worst Director
Worst Prequel, Remake, Rip-Off Or Sequel

It was crap, good to see it recognised

[Tommo87]

In think the franchise has a lot more to worry about in the recent media than the bad reviews for Antman and the Wasp Quantamania.

[ThomW]

Quite telling thayt nobody has mentioned Echo yet. I watched it, but it really wasn't great. I'm sure loads of deaf people, physically disabled people and native americans will say it's the best thing ever, but for the rest of us it was just a crap show. She was nowhere near as good as the Echo seen in the Hawkeye show.

[SpudLink]

ThomW said:

Quite telling thayt nobody has mentioned Echo yet. I watched it, but it really wasn't great. I'm sure loads of deaf people, physically disabled people and native americans will say it's the best thing ever, but for the rest of us it was just a crap show. She was nowhere near as good as the Echo seen in the Hawkeye show.

It was mediocre. The mystic element didn't really add anything. MCU is still churning out 'content' just to satisfy the requirements of the Disney empire. That's the opinion of this middle aged bloke on PH.

However there will be many people that enjoyed it. Perhaps because they are the minority groups you mentioned and appreciate seeing 'representation' in a superhero franchise. Or maybe just because they like different things to me. They pay their Disney+ subscription, so they're as entitled as I am to have shows they enjoy.

Edit: It's worth mentioning 'Spotlight' was used to publish comic book stories of characters that Marvel wasn't sure about. I don't think it's a bad thing to do the same on Disney+ . Not every character (or story idea) will work for everybody, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be given an airing so the minority who are interested can enjoy it.

Edited by SpudLink on Thursday 25th January 11:11

[C5_Steve]

SpudLink said:

It was mediocre. The mystic element didn't really add anything. MCU is still churning out 'content' just to satisfy the requirements of the Disney empire. That's the opinion of this middle aged bloke on PH.

However there will be many people that enjoyed it. Perhaps because they are the minority groups you mentioned and appreciate seeing 'representation' in a superhero franchise. Or maybe just because they like different things to me. They pay their Disney+ subscription, so they're as entitled as I am to have shows they enjoy.

I've got one episode left but I'm in no hurry to watch it. Much like others, I thought it was "ok". Better than Secret Invasion by miles but I agree they didn't do enough with the character (so far, got the finale left but I'm guessing not much changes).

The best parts of it were the scenes with Echo and Kingpin together including the flashbacks, everything in the current day just seems a bit all over the place.

Once again it just feels like it's been used to set something else up rather than tell or progress a story which is a shame. I do like the character and I think the actress does an excellent job so I hope we get more of her.

[SpudLink]

C5_Steve said:

I've got one episode left but I'm in no hurry to watch it. Much like others, I thought it was "ok". Better than Secret Invasion by miles but I agree they didn't do enough with the character (so far, got the finale left but I'm guessing not much changes).

The best parts of it were the scenes with Echo and Kingpin together including the flashbacks, everything in the current day just seems a bit all over the place.

Once again it just feels like it's been used to set something else up rather than tell or progress a story which is a shame. I do like the character and I think the actress does an excellent job so I hope we get more of her.

My main complaint about the last episode is we don't hear Vincent D'Onofrio's voice when he tells Maya he's going to kill the rest of her family. I understand they wanted that to be seen from Maya's POV, so we see it rather than hear it. But so much of Vincent D'Onofrio's performance is in the voice, I felt robbed. They did something unconventional for a good reason, but personally I wish they hadn't.

[EmilA]

Echo could have been so much better than what it was in the end. The character did better during their time in Hawkeye IMO.

[ThomW]

C5_Steve said:

I've got one episode left but I'm in no hurry to watch it. Much like others, I thought it was "ok". Better than Secret Invasion by miles but I agree they didn't do enough with the character (so far, got the finale left but I'm guessing not much changes).

The best parts of it were the scenes with Echo and Kingpin together including the flashbacks, everything in the current day just seems a bit all over the place.

Once again it just feels like it's been used to set something else up rather than tell or progress a story which is a shame. I do like the character and I think the actress does an excellent job so I hope we get more of her.

You see I liked Secret Invasion, was a little more interesting with decent characters. Right up to the last episode with the ridiculous supermegapowerboss fights.

[C5_Steve]

ThomW said:

You see I liked Secret Invasion, was a little more interesting with decent characters. Right up to the last episode with the ridiculous supermegapowerboss fights.

I suppose that's one advantage of what they've done in the last few years; there's something for everyone. I just wish they'd treat them more as individual shows rather than forcing them to tie in or connect at the expense of character development.

[SpudLink]

C5_Steve said:

I suppose that's one advantage of what they've done in the last few years; there's something for everyone. I just wish they'd treat them more as individual shows rather than forcing them to tie in or connect at the expense of character development.

Yeah. The 'cinematic universe' was a great idea, which worked brilliantly. But it's become a victim of its own success. Audiences now expect everything to tie into the wider story, and the writers have to force these connections into stories that don't need them.

They could (should) write some stories that stand apart, but without contradicting anything else in the MCU. In the comics every story was in the same universe, but didn't always have to connect to anything else.

Edit: Thinking about it, they did do that with Moon Knight and with Werewolf by Night. As far as I remember, neither really was connected to any other film or show. Apart from perhaps the opening monologue of Werewolf which had a narrator explaining this is the same world as the Avengers etc.

Edited by SpudLink on Thursday 25th January 13:48

[C5_Steve]

SpudLink said:

Edit: Thinking about it, they did do that with Moon Knight and with Werewolf by Night. As far as I remember, neither really was connected to any other film or show. Apart from perhaps the opening monologue of Werewolf which had a narrator explaining this is the same world as the Avengers etc.

Edited by SpudLink on Thursday 25th January 13:48

Yeah neither were connected and all the better for it. Werewolf was excellent as a one off and something I'd annoyingly have liked more of. I need to rewatch it in colour now it's been added.

Moon Knight S2 is supposed to be on the way as well which is good.