Westworld (NO SPOILERS)
Discussion
Wow! watched this last night - as it was available!
Some excellent, excellent parts to it and some a little below par I thought - but who knows they seem to be masters of the double, triple, quadruple bluff and twist upon twist...!
Can't wait to discuss - there were some excellent action scenes in it and....!
Some excellent, excellent parts to it and some a little below par I thought - but who knows they seem to be masters of the double, triple, quadruple bluff and twist upon twist...!
Can't wait to discuss - there were some excellent action scenes in it and....!
Flip Martian said:
oh wow, do you mean they really DON'T make multi million dollar tv series with loads of SFX every day then screen them immediately?!! I AM SO SHOCKED!
Dearie me, the idea they can make a tv series based on what viewers are saying about it on the internet...
It was of course in jest. Much like playing to an audience. Dearie me, the idea they can make a tv series based on what viewers are saying about it on the internet... NJK44 said:
Gretchen said:
Disappointed. Predictable load of poppycock. Except Maeve. I knew I liked her. God I really would.
You must've been watching something else.Finale was epic.
FYI, you're the first person I've seen give a negative review so you're in the minority
Perhaps because of the life I lead I could see this. To know me is to understand me.
When this started I asked my 14 and 15 year old sons if they'd watch with me. They declined. Tonight they sat with me and watched from the start. Within 15 minutes they'd predicted certain events/characters. I feel like a bad Mother because they've watched and learnt over the years. I feel I've almost spoiled their future enjoyment of film and TV. Youngest is just embarking on Black Mirror. Maybe one day he will become a writer and produce something different. I've turned the TV back off now. It'll stay that way until such time.
Wait, hold on...
We were told to wait until 10pm to post anything todo with episode 10, come 01:47am, and there has been 3-4 posts, with no spoilers.. why did we wait again?
Okay, so spoiler time
We all knew it, but I am glad they revealed William to be the MiB, i thought the reveal was great, and well done. It shows us what a dark and twisted this world has made William become though.
Ford, dead?! Surely not..I dont think so anyway
I reckon Dolores shot a robot version of Ford, who is safely hiding away someplace else. Guessing the bot he was making in the basement was him, after all that. I highly doubt Ford is dead.
Nonetheless, if Anthony Hopkins decides not todo Season 2, they can kill him off anyway.
We were told to wait until 10pm to post anything todo with episode 10, come 01:47am, and there has been 3-4 posts, with no spoilers.. why did we wait again?
Okay, so spoiler time
We all knew it, but I am glad they revealed William to be the MiB, i thought the reveal was great, and well done. It shows us what a dark and twisted this world has made William become though.
Ford, dead?! Surely not..I dont think so anyway
I reckon Dolores shot a robot version of Ford, who is safely hiding away someplace else. Guessing the bot he was making in the basement was him, after all that. I highly doubt Ford is dead.
Nonetheless, if Anthony Hopkins decides not todo Season 2, they can kill him off anyway.
NJK44 said:
Wait, hold on...
We were told to wait until 10pm to post anything todo with episode 10, come 01:47am, and there has been 3-4 posts, with no spoilers.. why did we wait again?
Okay, so spoiler time
We all knew it, but I am glad they revealed William to be the MiB, i thought the reveal was great, and well done. It shows us what a dark and twisted this world has made William become though.
Ford, dead?! Surely not..I dont think so anyway
I reckon Dolores shot a robot version of Ford, who is safely hiding away someplace else. Guessing the bot he was making in the basement was him, after all that. I highly doubt Ford is dead.
Nonetheless, if Anthony Hopkins decides not todo Season 2, they can kill him off anyway.
Most of the twists this season had already been revealed if you have access to the internet, but I like the fact that their were no "cheap" twists. All the information was there for a fan to figure out as they went along if they were paying attention.We were told to wait until 10pm to post anything todo with episode 10, come 01:47am, and there has been 3-4 posts, with no spoilers.. why did we wait again?
Okay, so spoiler time
We all knew it, but I am glad they revealed William to be the MiB, i thought the reveal was great, and well done. It shows us what a dark and twisted this world has made William become though.
Ford, dead?! Surely not..I dont think so anyway
I reckon Dolores shot a robot version of Ford, who is safely hiding away someplace else. Guessing the bot he was making in the basement was him, after all that. I highly doubt Ford is dead.
Nonetheless, if Anthony Hopkins decides not todo Season 2, they can kill him off anyway.
Anyway did the park make William into the MIB or just reveal to himself what he was all along?.
Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 7th December 12:39
ukaskew said:
2. All the main central workshop facilities are in clear view behind glass, yet Glenn and Sweary McSwearface can spend hours talking to Thandie's Newtons, letting her play on the iPad etc without anyone noticing or caring? I work with the data of a few thousand students and the audit trails will flag anomalies in data manipulation etc easily, yet a company that has thousands of Johnny 5s has no basic audit checks? I have serious concerns about staff morale and the Westworld whistle blowing policy.
Quoting myself, but it would appear they've really put some serious thought into the logistics of this show (not sure why I doubted that, it's complex enough!), Maeve getting away with so much in what appeared to be plain sight now makes perfect sense given she was programmed to believe she was escaping.Does this all mean the entire narrative of the hosts becoming self-aware was all a story-arc created by Ford, and only Delores is actually breaking free? If so, what does that mean for Maeve getting off the train?
The more I think about it, the more satisfying that final 90 minutes was. Plus the 'escape' scenes with Armistice were an absolute joy (including the post credits sequence).
Gretchen said:
When this started I asked my 14 and 15 year old sons if they'd watch with me. They declined. Tonight they sat with me and watched from the start. Within 15 minutes they'd predicted certain events/characters. I feel like a bad Mother because they've watched and learnt over the years. I feel I've almost spoiled their future enjoyment of film and TV. Youngest is just embarking on Black Mirror. Maybe one day he will become a writer and produce something different. I've turned the TV back off now. It'll stay that way until such time.
An academic view of film/TV is that this is to be accepted, and expected. All stories are based on the relatable human nature, and many themes we have today are based upon legends, stories and literature of the last few hundred years. You will always have stories of self-discovery, stories of self-redemption, and stories how a 'good' person becomes conflicted, or 'evil' and vice-versa. If your kids have picked up on that, it's not because they've watched too much TV, these same themes run through all literature, including small children's books.
Arnold is the Pied Piper of Hemelin playing a tune to bring the children to their death. Ford is the 'big bad wolf' in Grandma's clothing. Delores is Pinocchio, crafted by a man, sharing the desperation to become 'real'. You can go on, and on.
Considering more recent writing, we've just discovered through the series that the story linking all the timelines together is how Darth Vader/The Man in Black was created from Annakin Skywalker/William.
That's not lazy storytelling, these are al stories of human nature, and there are only so many themes. As a counterpoint, unless we want to watch the most slow, plodding content ever, it is a necessity that writers bring in outside themes and tropes to give hints about who is 'good', 'evil', who the 'mentor' is for example, as these are character traits which are understood and progress a story at a reasonable pace.
Don't get disheartened. Personally, I thought Westworld was one of the best examples of storytelling in recent years.
JustinP1 said:
Gretchen said:
When this started I asked my 14 and 15 year old sons if they'd watch with me. They declined. Tonight they sat with me and watched from the start. Within 15 minutes they'd predicted certain events/characters. I feel like a bad Mother because they've watched and learnt over the years. I feel I've almost spoiled their future enjoyment of film and TV. Youngest is just embarking on Black Mirror. Maybe one day he will become a writer and produce something different. I've turned the TV back off now. It'll stay that way until such time.
An academic view of film/TV is that this is to be accepted, and expected. All stories are based on the relatable human nature, and many themes we have today are based upon legends, stories and literature of the last few hundred years. You will always have stories of self-discovery, stories of self-redemption, and stories how a 'good' person becomes conflicted, or 'evil' and vice-versa. If your kids have picked up on that, it's not because they've watched too much TV, these same themes run through all literature, including small children's books.
Arnold is the Pied Piper of Hemelin playing a tune to bring the children to their death. Ford is the 'big bad wolf' in Grandma's clothing. Delores is Pinocchio, crafted by a man, sharing the desperation to become 'real'. You can go on, and on.
Considering more recent writing, we've just discovered through the series that the story linking all the timelines together is how Darth Vader/The Man in Black was created from Annakin Skywalker/William.
That's not lazy storytelling, these are al stories of human nature, and there are only so many themes. As a counterpoint, unless we want to watch the most slow, plodding content ever, it is a necessity that writers bring in outside themes and tropes to give hints about who is 'good', 'evil', who the 'mentor' is for example, as these are character traits which are understood and progress a story at a reasonable pace.
Don't get disheartened. Personally, I thought Westworld was one of the best examples of storytelling in recent years.
ukaskew said:
... the 'escape' scenes with Armistice were an absolute joy (including the post credits sequence).
Something very odd about the guards, why did they allow themselves to be slaughtered, why did the guns actually work against them. Unless they were hosts and all part of some meta game.4x4Tyke said:
Something very odd about the guards, why did they allow themselves to be slaughtered, why did the guns actually work against them. Unless they were hosts and all part of some meta game.
We (think we) know that Maeve 'escaping' was all written, so I guess it's not a stretch to assume her recruiting the others was part of that story-arc and therefore isn't quite what we think it is.I'm thinking it was all a test for Maeve, push her to her emotional limits and see if she goes off-script when she finally reaches the train. Does the pull of her memories of the old narrative with her child override her new scripted mission to escape?
It's by far my favourite story of the whole series, in part because it was a lot easier to follow than Delores, even if all is not as it seems.
JustinP1 said:
Gretchen said:
When this started I asked my 14 and 15 year old sons if they'd watch with me. They declined. Tonight they sat with me and watched from the start. Within 15 minutes they'd predicted certain events/characters. I feel like a bad Mother because they've watched and learnt over the years. I feel I've almost spoiled their future enjoyment of film and TV. Youngest is just embarking on Black Mirror. Maybe one day he will become a writer and produce something different. I've turned the TV back off now. It'll stay that way until such time.
An academic view of film/TV is that this is to be accepted, and expected. All stories are based on the relatable human nature, and many themes we have today are based upon legends, stories and literature of the last few hundred years. You will always have stories of self-discovery, stories of self-redemption, and stories how a 'good' person becomes conflicted, or 'evil' and vice-versa. If your kids have picked up on that, it's not because they've watched too much TV, these same themes run through all literature, including small children's books.
Arnold is the Pied Piper of Hemelin playing a tune to bring the children to their death. Ford is the 'big bad wolf' in Grandma's clothing. Delores is Pinocchio, crafted by a man, sharing the desperation to become 'real'. You can go on, and on.
Considering more recent writing, we've just discovered through the series that the story linking all the timelines together is how Darth Vader/The Man in Black was created from Annakin Skywalker/William.
That's not lazy storytelling, these are al stories of human nature, and there are only so many themes. As a counterpoint, unless we want to watch the most slow, plodding content ever, it is a necessity that writers bring in outside themes and tropes to give hints about who is 'good', 'evil', who the 'mentor' is for example, as these are character traits which are understood and progress a story at a reasonable pace.
Don't get disheartened. Personally, I thought Westworld was one of the best examples of storytelling in recent years.
. I myself really enjoyed being drawn in to the way Westworld was told.That point of view would suggest it's all the 'script', but that can be taken further...
We know that Delores is an 'unreliable narrator' in that what we see through her eyes is not reality. So, there's this theory:
There is no 'Wyatt', that was a seed planted in the hosts. Seeds were planted in Delores and Teddy by Ford to get the planned 'finale' of their storyline and characters by the beach, and later to use them for his own 'finale'.
However, the memories of the massacre instigated by Delores and Teddy were also planted - that never actually happened.
It was planted to that they would be prepared to complete Ford's massacre in real life. The memory planted the suggestion to kill your maker (Arnold) on the cue of the music, the same repeated in Ford's suicide. The programming was a mixture of memory and suggestion, and the memories of Delores through the episodes were just the manifestation of that coming to the fore.
We know that Delores is an 'unreliable narrator' in that what we see through her eyes is not reality. So, there's this theory:
There is no 'Wyatt', that was a seed planted in the hosts. Seeds were planted in Delores and Teddy by Ford to get the planned 'finale' of their storyline and characters by the beach, and later to use them for his own 'finale'.
However, the memories of the massacre instigated by Delores and Teddy were also planted - that never actually happened.
It was planted to that they would be prepared to complete Ford's massacre in real life. The memory planted the suggestion to kill your maker (Arnold) on the cue of the music, the same repeated in Ford's suicide. The programming was a mixture of memory and suggestion, and the memories of Delores through the episodes were just the manifestation of that coming to the fore.
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