Westworld (NO SPOILERS)
Discussion
I think there are three timelines again.
Maeve, Caleb, old William and his clones, Charlotte/Dolores are all in the period 7 years after the fall of Westworld.
Cristina is in the past - long before Ford, Arnold and Westworld. Some sort of original park. I think she's human but I don't understand what she knows about how her stories are used.
Bernard and Stubbs are now in some distant future.
Maeve, Caleb, old William and his clones, Charlotte/Dolores are all in the period 7 years after the fall of Westworld.
Cristina is in the past - long before Ford, Arnold and Westworld. Some sort of original park. I think she's human but I don't understand what she knows about how her stories are used.
Bernard and Stubbs are now in some distant future.
Mars said:
I think there are three timelines again.
Maeve, Caleb, old William and his clones, Charlotte/Dolores are all in the period 7 years after the fall of Westworld.
Cristina is in the past - long before Ford, Arnold and Westworld. Some sort of original park. I think she's human but I don't understand what she knows about how her stories are used.
Bernard and Stubbs are now in some distant future.
I'm also subscribing to the "Christina is in the past" part. Interested to see how that pans out.Maeve, Caleb, old William and his clones, Charlotte/Dolores are all in the period 7 years after the fall of Westworld.
Cristina is in the past - long before Ford, Arnold and Westworld. Some sort of original park. I think she's human but I don't understand what she knows about how her stories are used.
Bernard and Stubbs are now in some distant future.
Bernard and Stubbs - that cafe didn't look too futuristic but I agree - pretty sure they're in a different timeline. Before or after Maeve, Caleb etc, I don't know. Just glad I understood this episode more than the last 2
Flip Martian said:
I'm also subscribing to the "Christina is in the past" part. Interested to see how that pans out.
Bernard and Stubbs - that cafe didn't look too futuristic but I agree - pretty sure they're in a different timeline. Before or after Maeve, Caleb etc, I don't know. Just glad I understood this episode more than the last 2
I am basing my proposal of Bernard in the distant future on nothing more than the amount of dust that collected on him. It seems like a few decades worth rather than a few years.Bernard and Stubbs - that cafe didn't look too futuristic but I agree - pretty sure they're in a different timeline. Before or after Maeve, Caleb etc, I don't know. Just glad I understood this episode more than the last 2
I wonder if the cafe and the world in general that Bernard awoke into looked old as a result of "civilisation stagnation" resulting from some sort of global catastrophe. We haven't seen them moving about in anything other than remote regions - i.e. no other civilisation.
I'm curious about what Stubbs has been doing all that time.
Mars said:
I am basing my proposal of Bernard in the distant future on nothing more than the amount of dust that collected on him. It seems like a few decades worth rather than a few years.
I wonder if the cafe and the world in general that Bernard awoke into looked old as a result of "civilisation stagnation" resulting from some sort of global catastrophe. We haven't seen them moving about in anything other than remote regions - i.e. no other civilisation.
I'm curious about what Stubbs has been doing all that time.
Keeping the room clean, certainly. Which makes Bernard's dust all the more puzzling. But yeah it did look he'd been there for far more than 7/8 years.I wonder if the cafe and the world in general that Bernard awoke into looked old as a result of "civilisation stagnation" resulting from some sort of global catastrophe. We haven't seen them moving about in anything other than remote regions - i.e. no other civilisation.
I'm curious about what Stubbs has been doing all that time.
OK, I'll stick it behind a spoiler, just in case anyone accidentally stumbles upon it...
Cristina cannot be in the past because her flatmate has that dream about when the flies first infected her and her family. As Hale says only the children were affected, the flatmate must have been infected as a child, which means their time is the same timeframe as Bernard and Stubbs.
Maeve and Caleb were in the past, relative to Bernard and Stubbs, but as of the end of this ep, they're both in the same timeline as Bernard and Stubbs - Maeve having been dug up by Bernard, and Caleb having been resurrected as a host by Hale.
So they're ALL in the current world, which must now be 30 years after the fall of Westworld (7 years to the point when Maeve goes to rescue Caleb and another 23 years mentioned by Hale for the time spent perfecting Caleb's fidelity).
But what is Cristina? What is Teddy? They must be hosts as the theory I previously had about them both being human precursors to Dolores and Teddy cannot be true anymore. But if they're hosts, why is Cristina always so upset and vague?
And back to that flatmate... if she's a human (flies infection) what is her part in all of this? She seems to be there to direct Cristina... sort of her motivation. The way she insisted she goes out with her, then she abandons her to Teddy, seemed a bit weird.
Also how was Caleb able to withstand Hale's instructions to kill Maeve?
If they're digging-up Maeve, is William also down there? If not, are there alternative/other clones? I guess there are, as Hale mentioned something about her being able to print others as required.
But then where's the real William? Hale left him on ice 23 years ago (I guess that was his timeline). Will he come back and actually fight FOR the hosts in some twist of his motivation?
The rebels mention looking for another "outlier". Who will that be? Do you think it's Cristina?
I wonder if the New York park is actually a park for the hosts to go and have fun with the humans... (Gary Newman's Down In The Park predicted it. In the 1980s) Caleb crashed into someone as he escaped the building, just like all newcomers to Westworld used to. Caleb is a host and Hale controls the humans, so it's a complete reversal.
Cristina cannot be in the past because her flatmate has that dream about when the flies first infected her and her family. As Hale says only the children were affected, the flatmate must have been infected as a child, which means their time is the same timeframe as Bernard and Stubbs.
Maeve and Caleb were in the past, relative to Bernard and Stubbs, but as of the end of this ep, they're both in the same timeline as Bernard and Stubbs - Maeve having been dug up by Bernard, and Caleb having been resurrected as a host by Hale.
So they're ALL in the current world, which must now be 30 years after the fall of Westworld (7 years to the point when Maeve goes to rescue Caleb and another 23 years mentioned by Hale for the time spent perfecting Caleb's fidelity).
But what is Cristina? What is Teddy? They must be hosts as the theory I previously had about them both being human precursors to Dolores and Teddy cannot be true anymore. But if they're hosts, why is Cristina always so upset and vague?
And back to that flatmate... if she's a human (flies infection) what is her part in all of this? She seems to be there to direct Cristina... sort of her motivation. The way she insisted she goes out with her, then she abandons her to Teddy, seemed a bit weird.
Also how was Caleb able to withstand Hale's instructions to kill Maeve?
If they're digging-up Maeve, is William also down there? If not, are there alternative/other clones? I guess there are, as Hale mentioned something about her being able to print others as required.
But then where's the real William? Hale left him on ice 23 years ago (I guess that was his timeline). Will he come back and actually fight FOR the hosts in some twist of his motivation?
The rebels mention looking for another "outlier". Who will that be? Do you think it's Cristina?
I wonder if the New York park is actually a park for the hosts to go and have fun with the humans... (Gary Newman's Down In The Park predicted it. In the 1980s) Caleb crashed into someone as he escaped the building, just like all newcomers to Westworld used to. Caleb is a host and Hale controls the humans, so it's a complete reversal.
I think I've noticed a few continuity errors in ep3 and ep4 of series 4. A couple for starters:
When Bernard and Stubbs left the "roadside cafe" Stubbs was driving but when they arrived at their location Bernard was behind the wheel.
When Caleb got stabbed in his right side the wound moved to his left (in the car journey with Maeve) and then back to his right when they arrived at the Quarry.
I suspect this is due to Bernard mentioning something like he's been on (t)his "journey" many times (hence why he can predict things?)
When Bernard and Stubbs left the "roadside cafe" Stubbs was driving but when they arrived at their location Bernard was behind the wheel.
When Caleb got stabbed in his right side the wound moved to his left (in the car journey with Maeve) and then back to his right when they arrived at the Quarry.
I suspect this is due to Bernard mentioning something like he's been on (t)his "journey" many times (hence why he can predict things?)
Mars said:
OK, I'll stick it behind a spoiler, just in case anyone accidentally stumbles upon it...
Cristina cannot be in the past because her flatmate has that dream about when the flies first infected her and her family. As Hale says only the children were affected, the flatmate must have been infected as a child, which means their time is the same timeframe as Bernard and Stubbs.
Maeve and Caleb were in the past, relative to Bernard and Stubbs, but as of the end of this ep, they're both in the same timeline as Bernard and Stubbs - Maeve having been dug up by Bernard, and Caleb having been resurrected as a host by Hale.
So they're ALL in the current world, which must now be 30 years after the fall of Westworld (7 years to the point when Maeve goes to rescue Caleb and another 23 years mentioned by Hale for the time spent perfecting Caleb's fidelity).
But what is Cristina? What is Teddy? They must be hosts as the theory I previously had about them both being human precursors to Dolores and Teddy cannot be true anymore. But if they're hosts, why is Cristina always so upset and vague?
And back to that flatmate... if she's a human (flies infection) what is her part in all of this? She seems to be there to direct Cristina... sort of her motivation. The way she insisted she goes out with her, then she abandons her to Teddy, seemed a bit weird.
Also how was Caleb able to withstand Hale's instructions to kill Maeve?
If they're digging-up Maeve, is William also down there? If not, are there alternative/other clones? I guess there are, as Hale mentioned something about her being able to print others as required.
But then where's the real William? Hale left him on ice 23 years ago (I guess that was his timeline). Will he come back and actually fight FOR the hosts in some twist of his motivation?
The rebels mention looking for another "outlier". Who will that be? Do you think it's Cristina?
I wonder if the New York park is actually a park for the hosts to go and have fun with the humans... (Gary Newman's Down In The Park predicted it. In the 1980s) Caleb crashed into someone as he escaped the building, just like all newcomers to Westworld used to. Caleb is a host and Hale controls the humans, so it's a complete reversal.
Cristina cannot be in the past because her flatmate has that dream about when the flies first infected her and her family. As Hale says only the children were affected, the flatmate must have been infected as a child, which means their time is the same timeframe as Bernard and Stubbs.
Maeve and Caleb were in the past, relative to Bernard and Stubbs, but as of the end of this ep, they're both in the same timeline as Bernard and Stubbs - Maeve having been dug up by Bernard, and Caleb having been resurrected as a host by Hale.
So they're ALL in the current world, which must now be 30 years after the fall of Westworld (7 years to the point when Maeve goes to rescue Caleb and another 23 years mentioned by Hale for the time spent perfecting Caleb's fidelity).
But what is Cristina? What is Teddy? They must be hosts as the theory I previously had about them both being human precursors to Dolores and Teddy cannot be true anymore. But if they're hosts, why is Cristina always so upset and vague?
And back to that flatmate... if she's a human (flies infection) what is her part in all of this? She seems to be there to direct Cristina... sort of her motivation. The way she insisted she goes out with her, then she abandons her to Teddy, seemed a bit weird.
Also how was Caleb able to withstand Hale's instructions to kill Maeve?
If they're digging-up Maeve, is William also down there? If not, are there alternative/other clones? I guess there are, as Hale mentioned something about her being able to print others as required.
But then where's the real William? Hale left him on ice 23 years ago (I guess that was his timeline). Will he come back and actually fight FOR the hosts in some twist of his motivation?
The rebels mention looking for another "outlier". Who will that be? Do you think it's Cristina?
I wonder if the New York park is actually a park for the hosts to go and have fun with the humans... (Gary Newman's Down In The Park predicted it. In the 1980s) Caleb crashed into someone as he escaped the building, just like all newcomers to Westworld used to. Caleb is a host and Hale controls the humans, so it's a complete reversal.
My take on the caleb resisiting is either the outlier in him prevented the flys from fully taking over or maeve was able to block the fly programming through the connection to calebs implants that they made sure to show us earlier in the episode.
Agree with the other timelines you mentioned.
westtra said:
Mars said:
OK, I'll stick it behind a spoiler, just in case anyone accidentally stumbles upon it...
Cristina cannot be in the past because her flatmate has that dream about when the flies first infected her and her family. As Hale says only the children were affected, the flatmate must have been infected as a child, which means their time is the same timeframe as Bernard and Stubbs.
Maeve and Caleb were in the past, relative to Bernard and Stubbs, but as of the end of this ep, they're both in the same timeline as Bernard and Stubbs - Maeve having been dug up by Bernard, and Caleb having been resurrected as a host by Hale.
So they're ALL in the current world, which must now be 30 years after the fall of Westworld (7 years to the point when Maeve goes to rescue Caleb and another 23 years mentioned by Hale for the time spent perfecting Caleb's fidelity).
But what is Cristina? What is Teddy? They must be hosts as the theory I previously had about them both being human precursors to Dolores and Teddy cannot be true anymore. But if they're hosts, why is Cristina always so upset and vague?
And back to that flatmate... if she's a human (flies infection) what is her part in all of this? She seems to be there to direct Cristina... sort of her motivation. The way she insisted she goes out with her, then she abandons her to Teddy, seemed a bit weird.
Also how was Caleb able to withstand Hale's instructions to kill Maeve?
If they're digging-up Maeve, is William also down there? If not, are there alternative/other clones? I guess there are, as Hale mentioned something about her being able to print others as required.
But then where's the real William? Hale left him on ice 23 years ago (I guess that was his timeline). Will he come back and actually fight FOR the hosts in some twist of his motivation?
The rebels mention looking for another "outlier". Who will that be? Do you think it's Cristina?
I wonder if the New York park is actually a park for the hosts to go and have fun with the humans... (Gary Newman's Down In The Park predicted it. In the 1980s) Caleb crashed into someone as he escaped the building, just like all newcomers to Westworld used to. Caleb is a host and Hale controls the humans, so it's a complete reversal.
Cristina cannot be in the past because her flatmate has that dream about when the flies first infected her and her family. As Hale says only the children were affected, the flatmate must have been infected as a child, which means their time is the same timeframe as Bernard and Stubbs.
Maeve and Caleb were in the past, relative to Bernard and Stubbs, but as of the end of this ep, they're both in the same timeline as Bernard and Stubbs - Maeve having been dug up by Bernard, and Caleb having been resurrected as a host by Hale.
So they're ALL in the current world, which must now be 30 years after the fall of Westworld (7 years to the point when Maeve goes to rescue Caleb and another 23 years mentioned by Hale for the time spent perfecting Caleb's fidelity).
But what is Cristina? What is Teddy? They must be hosts as the theory I previously had about them both being human precursors to Dolores and Teddy cannot be true anymore. But if they're hosts, why is Cristina always so upset and vague?
And back to that flatmate... if she's a human (flies infection) what is her part in all of this? She seems to be there to direct Cristina... sort of her motivation. The way she insisted she goes out with her, then she abandons her to Teddy, seemed a bit weird.
Also how was Caleb able to withstand Hale's instructions to kill Maeve?
If they're digging-up Maeve, is William also down there? If not, are there alternative/other clones? I guess there are, as Hale mentioned something about her being able to print others as required.
But then where's the real William? Hale left him on ice 23 years ago (I guess that was his timeline). Will he come back and actually fight FOR the hosts in some twist of his motivation?
The rebels mention looking for another "outlier". Who will that be? Do you think it's Cristina?
I wonder if the New York park is actually a park for the hosts to go and have fun with the humans... (Gary Newman's Down In The Park predicted it. In the 1980s) Caleb crashed into someone as he escaped the building, just like all newcomers to Westworld used to. Caleb is a host and Hale controls the humans, so it's a complete reversal.
My take on the caleb resisiting is either the outlier in him prevented the flys from fully taking over or maeve was able to block the fly programming through the connection to calebs implants that they made sure to show us earlier in the episode.
Agree with the other timelines you mentioned.
Now we've worked out the timelines, I hope this isn't just 6 more episodes of "the goodies finding a way to beat the baddie". The unwrapping of the plot over the first 4 eps has been excellent. But surely there are more twists and riddles to come, just because it wouldn't be WW without them!
pquinn said:
Flip Martian said:
Now we've worked out the timelines, I hope this isn't just 6 more episodes of "the goodies finding a way to beat the baddie".
I think that's guaranteed as there's only 4 more episodes...Ep5 is up.
Some answers and more questions.
We find out what Cristina and Teddy are but not where they came from. Given Teddy's previous death, how has he turned up now? And had he achieved true self-awareness before he killed himself? That part wasn't clear to me at the time.
And how/why is Cristina able to control people (presumably humans) with her narratives? Presumably she's directly linked to the sound generators and she was created as one of Hale's puppets. Is she becoming self-aware, and with any semblance of Dolores inside her?
What causes the hosts to go mad when they interact with the outliers?
I'm still curious to know who those three guys were in Ep1 that were enjoying their entrance into the park. It seems a bit out of character for hosts to express such enjoyment yet only a host could "enjoy" the park at all. Having said that, maybe the hosts are developing human emotions. Hale confessed to being bored.
How extensive is the fly-carried virus? Is the whole world under Hale's grasp? Is there still an "outside" of the park?
Still curious to know what Cristina's flatmate is and what part she plays.
What is this new body-less virtual reality? Is it a new "sublime"? Did Hale ever find the original one which we had believed was hosted by the servers in the Hoover Dam?
Some answers and more questions.
We find out what Cristina and Teddy are but not where they came from. Given Teddy's previous death, how has he turned up now? And had he achieved true self-awareness before he killed himself? That part wasn't clear to me at the time.
And how/why is Cristina able to control people (presumably humans) with her narratives? Presumably she's directly linked to the sound generators and she was created as one of Hale's puppets. Is she becoming self-aware, and with any semblance of Dolores inside her?
What causes the hosts to go mad when they interact with the outliers?
I'm still curious to know who those three guys were in Ep1 that were enjoying their entrance into the park. It seems a bit out of character for hosts to express such enjoyment yet only a host could "enjoy" the park at all. Having said that, maybe the hosts are developing human emotions. Hale confessed to being bored.
How extensive is the fly-carried virus? Is the whole world under Hale's grasp? Is there still an "outside" of the park?
Still curious to know what Cristina's flatmate is and what part she plays.
What is this new body-less virtual reality? Is it a new "sublime"? Did Hale ever find the original one which we had believed was hosted by the servers in the Hoover Dam?
eps said:
Some of it is excellent visually and in terms of storyline and twists but..... I'm starting to get the feeling that they're tying themselves in a number of knots and in the end it will be like Lost and just lose its way and never get back... Hoping I am proved wrong, but...
Lost permanently turned me into a TV cynic, for which I'll never forgive its creators. I remember at the beginning, they claimed they had plotted its course to the end and all the questions that the series raised would be answered. I fell for it and although I think the ending kind of worked, it was obviously one they came up with very late in the game, and they didn't answer many of the questions.Was the presence of the polar bear ever explained?
So far Westworld seems to have answered all the questions raised as the story unfolds but, like you, I'm retaining a healthy dose of scepticism for the (inevitable?) disappointing ending.
Nothing will beat the first Westworld series though. I still think it's the best TV I've ever seen.
Mars said:
Lost permanently turned me into a TV cynic, for which I'll never forgive its creators. I remember at the beginning, they claimed they had plotted its course to the end and all the questions that the series raised would be answered. I fell for it and although I think the ending kind of worked, it was obviously one they came up with very late in the game, and they didn't answer many of the questions.
Was the presence of the polar bear ever explained?
So far Westworld seems to have answered all the questions raised as the story unfolds but, like you, I'm retaining a healthy dose of scepticism for the (inevitable?) disappointing ending.
Nothing will beat the first Westworld series though. I still think it's the best TV I've ever seen.
I think the polar bear escaped from the Dharma Zoo (where Sawyer was held in the cages... ) Was the presence of the polar bear ever explained?
So far Westworld seems to have answered all the questions raised as the story unfolds but, like you, I'm retaining a healthy dose of scepticism for the (inevitable?) disappointing ending.
Nothing will beat the first Westworld series though. I still think it's the best TV I've ever seen.
eps said:
Some of it is excellent visually and in terms of storyline and twists but..... I'm starting to get the feeling that they're tying themselves in a number of knots and in the end it will be like Lost and just lose its way and never get back... Hoping I am proved wrong, but...
I remember thinking this about Westworld season 2. It seemed to be more about "let's make sure nobody guesses the plot this time" than making a coherent plot. Edited by Flip Martian on Tuesday 26th July 19:49
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