Third World War - Inside the War Room
Discussion
On tonight on BBC2 at 9.00pm, presumably will be available on iPlayer, and a 'must see' for anyone interested in politics/world affairs etc. imho. One of those fascinating but sobering programmes that make on feel more concerned for the possible near future than in the post USSR collapse relief period.
It was a very well made and well considered dramatised documentary using politicians, ex ambassadors and generals about the likely response to a Ukraine-like insurrection in the Baltic. Brilliant stuff, though I'm not sure I'm glad I watched it!
It was a very well made and well considered dramatised documentary using politicians, ex ambassadors and generals about the likely response to a Ukraine-like insurrection in the Baltic. Brilliant stuff, though I'm not sure I'm glad I watched it!
Interesting show, I quite like this sort of thing seeing how the decisions are made in the escalation of war. There was a film on BBC4 last year called War Book which was very similar, with civil servants playing out a "war game" as India and Pakistan turn on each other and the escalating situation, set against the backdrop of it possibly happening in reality at that time. There were no dramatised sections and it was all talking around the table, but if you enjoyed this then its worth looking up. (Currently not available on iPlayer however)
I saw that one too and liked it very much - much more play-like, and very well scripted with some brilliant acting by the slimy character who role-played the PM (and some not so from the over-earnest naysayer, but still...).
If this is anything close to how it would be done in reality (and given the description of the process and those involved possibly quite close) it is 'interesting' how recommendations to govt. on such a serious issue could be made by such a small number of people, where the decision on what course of action to recommend could e down to to the smallest difference in votes.
If this is anything close to how it would be done in reality (and given the description of the process and those involved possibly quite close) it is 'interesting' how recommendations to govt. on such a serious issue could be made by such a small number of people, where the decision on what course of action to recommend could e down to to the smallest difference in votes.
V8mate said:
I'm sure the Russians will have enjoyed watching it, if only to confirm that our assembled senior politicians, military leaders and diplomats don't have the balls to stand behind our nuclear deterrent. It is, effectively, no deterrent.
Exactly my thoughts too. Was a bit weird. I wonder if they show something similar in Russia but with Putin marching in, banging his hand on the table and multiple weapons being deployed, then Russia 'owning' the whole planet (or what's left of it!)
V8mate said:
valiant said:
Pistom said:
Made me wonder what the point of a UK nuclear deterrent is.
Quite sobering how quick it ended up flinging nukes at each other. At the end of the programme it was agreed not to use British nukes, not anyone else.
Halb said:
valiant said:
Quite sobering how quick it ended up flinging nukes at each other.
Excellent viewing though.
Indeed.Excellent viewing though.
Made me think that possibly some were given 'briefs' to be belligerent/aggressive/knobs. A bit of dick polishing going on.
audikentman said:
Pistom said:
Made me wonder what the point of a UK nuclear deterrent is.
Yeap and the £100 million its replacement will cost. Just think of how much better that money could be spent.It's not the cost that makes me wonder of the effectiveness but just how small a deterrent it is.
The program ended with Putin saying sorry our fingers slipped. Well OK, rogue commander but in that case would there be a like for like deliberate retaliation?
My other question is, would civilian populations such as London be targeted? How would that benefit Russian strategy?
I felt that the whole program moved too quickly from 2 sides face slapping to the verge of MAD. OK that happened in the Cuban missile crisis but even with the tensions and paranoia of the time, common sense prevailed.
Pistom said:
The program ended with Putin saying sorry our fingers slipped. Well OK, rogue commander but in that case would there be a like for like deliberate retaliation?
My other question is, would civilian populations such as London be targeted? How would that benefit Russian strategy?
I felt that the whole program moved too quickly from 2 sides face slapping to the verge of MAD. OK that happened in the Cuban missile crisis but even with the tensions and paranoia of the time, common sense prevailed.
Yeah, that was a slim thing too. Ultimately I think it was down to two leaders who didn't wish to use the 'deterrent', despite being urged by administrations who wanted to push-push-push for it. People playing their games.My other question is, would civilian populations such as London be targeted? How would that benefit Russian strategy?
I felt that the whole program moved too quickly from 2 sides face slapping to the verge of MAD. OK that happened in the Cuban missile crisis but even with the tensions and paranoia of the time, common sense prevailed.
I felt the same a little in the show. There was some woman who seemed to be the voice of logic, but I cannot recall her name.
Pistom said:
I felt that the whole program moved too quickly from 2 sides face slapping to the verge of MAD. OK that happened in the Cuban missile crisis but even with the tensions and paranoia of the time, common sense prevailed.
But only just. There are 1st hand reports and comments from high level officials and senior military men including those ensconced in the White House who genuinely wondered whether they would see the next morning, without was, on the day push was coming to shove.Pistom said:
The cost is over £100bn not million. But doesn't a lot of that money go back in the economy with the jobs etc it supports?
It's not the cost that makes me wonder of the effectiveness but just how small a deterrent it is.
The program ended with Putin saying sorry our fingers slipped. Well OK, rogue commander but in that case would there be a like for like deliberate retaliation?
My other question is, would civilian populations such as London be targeted? How would that benefit Russian strategy?
I felt that the whole program moved too quickly from 2 sides face slapping to the verge of MAD. OK that happened in the Cuban missile crisis but even with the tensions and paranoia of the time, common sense prevailed.
Yes sorry my bad £100 billion, and not £100 million, for a system that is pretty much controlled and maintained by the US. At the risk of sounding like an ageing hippy I'd rather the money went on jobs that didn't involve destroying the human race and the planet. I'm sure a £100 billion would go a long way to solving hunger and curing illnesses like cancer in the world, I wonder how much money is wasted on Nuclear arms each year since the end of WW2.It's not the cost that makes me wonder of the effectiveness but just how small a deterrent it is.
The program ended with Putin saying sorry our fingers slipped. Well OK, rogue commander but in that case would there be a like for like deliberate retaliation?
My other question is, would civilian populations such as London be targeted? How would that benefit Russian strategy?
I felt that the whole program moved too quickly from 2 sides face slapping to the verge of MAD. OK that happened in the Cuban missile crisis but even with the tensions and paranoia of the time, common sense prevailed.
A lot of countries have no Nuclear weapons and where never invaded during the cold war and for all its Nuclear weapons the US have it didn't stop the 9/11 attacks.
What would be the point of Nuking a country as there would then be nothing left to invade?
V8mate said:
I'm sure the Russians will have enjoyed watching it, if only to confirm that our assembled senior politicians, military leaders and diplomats don't have the balls to stand behind our nuclear deterrent. It is, effectively, no deterrent.
The question seemed to be if they'd launch while the Russian ICBMs were actually inbound. A least one said that they might as well wait to respond as the whole point of the subs is that they survive no matter what. I thought it was a very good program.
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