Traffic Management: politics & ideology defeat logic. News?!
Discussion
From a report in the latest LTT...the Institute of Economic Affairs has reported that thousands of traffic signals, bus lanes, cycle lanes, speed cameras and parking restrictions provide benefits that are negligible or non-existent, while costs are substantial. As a result they should be removed from Britain’s roads.
If only.
In their report Martin Cassini and IEA research director Richard Wellings said:
There is a risk that policy prescription and funding (mechanisms) incentivise transport authorities to expand such measures beyond reason. The fact that TfL implements such poor value schemes suggests that politics and ideology override economic logic.
In addition to removing traffic signals, they want a cull of bus and cycle lanes “where efficiency or safety benefits are too insubstantial to justify their consumption of road space”. The authors also suggest phasing out government grants to councils for traffic management schemes.If only.
Picked up by the Mail:
Something sensible people have already worked out, particularly regular road users of course:
"...Eight in ten traffic lights ‘should be ripped out to cut jams’: Report says over regulation of traffic is detrimental to road safety, the economy and the environment..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3414870/Ei...
Something sensible people have already worked out, particularly regular road users of course:
"...Eight in ten traffic lights ‘should be ripped out to cut jams’: Report says over regulation of traffic is detrimental to road safety, the economy and the environment..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3414870/Ei...
There's a large and complex junction in Gloucester which flows far better when the lights fail - can't recall a shunt due to the lights going out either.
It's a pity that more didn't come of this:
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8404278/Traffic-...
It's a pity that more didn't come of this:
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8404278/Traffic-...
Turning left on a red light would be a start.
Bus lanes, all they seem to do in my local area is cut the available road capacity by 50% at the most important times delaying everyone's journey, haven't they realised we're not getting out of our cars and on the buses yet?
Same with the silly 2+ lanes they put in Leeds and on the M606 again they just managed to create more delays with no one in any meaningful way changing their habits, they have even blacked out the signs on the M606 so another utter waste of everyone's time and money.
They created a one system in a Otley that lasted a few weeks until they saw what utter chaos they had caused and changed it back, but never mind plenty more money where that came from.
Bus lanes, all they seem to do in my local area is cut the available road capacity by 50% at the most important times delaying everyone's journey, haven't they realised we're not getting out of our cars and on the buses yet?
Same with the silly 2+ lanes they put in Leeds and on the M606 again they just managed to create more delays with no one in any meaningful way changing their habits, they have even blacked out the signs on the M606 so another utter waste of everyone's time and money.
They created a one system in a Otley that lasted a few weeks until they saw what utter chaos they had caused and changed it back, but never mind plenty more money where that came from.
turbobloke said:
From a report in the latest LTT...the Institute of Economic Affairs has reported that thousands of traffic signals,As a result they should be removed from Britain’s roads.
Mr Cassini was involved in the implementation of this https://youtu.be/-vzDDMzq7d0 locally to where I live.In their report Martin Cassini and IEA research director Richard Wellings said:
There is a risk that policy prescription and funding (mechanisms) incentivise transport authorities to expand such measures beyond reason. The fact that TfL implements such poor value schemes suggests that politics and ideology override economic logic.
If only.It seems to be a love it or hate. It scheme it seems the majority of local people love it but a VOCAL minority try to do it down. Also visitors find it very confusing for some reason
http://www.poyntonforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&am...
Although I was pretty sceptical at first the scheme works a dream apart from selfish Cocks parking on the pavement due to sheer braindeadness.
This is the general area which includes 'shared space' which gets a big thumbs up for me
https://youtu.be/FUyo8_yhH90
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 6th February 21:44
Our local council is making noises about free car parking from 6pm to support local businesses with late opening, at the moment just about everywhere is pay-to-park up to 8pm. Clearly they know the harm to the local economy that their current policy represents, not least by the number of empty retail units. Scale this up nationally and the harm is significant, predicated on nothing but anti-car ideology. It's useless as a strategy for improving journey times as parking fees increase congestion because motorist who make the journey anyway then circulate looking for a rare free parking space in a decreasing number of locations. Park and ride is used but can't handle the numbers or the people who want to park nearby while they shop because it's obvious to do so or necessary due to the purchases involved. We need a new generation of traffic managers which isn't already brainwashed, but as per the OP 'if only'.
The problem is the average trip length in this country is 7 miles, easily a distance that could be completed by another means be it public transport or cycling. Now before everyone starts with “I live in the country side I must drive” or “I’ve hurt my back and can’t cycle” etc. etc. etc. it’s obvious that using other methods isn't suitable for everyone but I think if a lot of people took a long honest look at themselves they could find other means, you can’t moan about traffic if you are the traffic!
With cycle lanes it seems like you’re dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. People say cycling is dangerous so segregation is introduced but that is wrong as it slows traffic. The traffic light thing makes me laugh too, removing them introduces ambiguity thereby making it safer as people negotiate the area more slowly. Isn't that exactly the same argument used about removing white lines that everyone on here thinks is mad?!?
Until driver-less cars are introduced and everything is computer controlled, we only have a finite amount of space so you need to decide how you want it used, unfortunately the majority of people want to get from A to B as quickly as possible and everyone else can f
k off! It’s the height of selfishness. The country is getting bigger, cars are getting cheaper. We only have a small amount of space and can't keeping going as we are.
With cycle lanes it seems like you’re dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. People say cycling is dangerous so segregation is introduced but that is wrong as it slows traffic. The traffic light thing makes me laugh too, removing them introduces ambiguity thereby making it safer as people negotiate the area more slowly. Isn't that exactly the same argument used about removing white lines that everyone on here thinks is mad?!?
Until driver-less cars are introduced and everything is computer controlled, we only have a finite amount of space so you need to decide how you want it used, unfortunately the majority of people want to get from A to B as quickly as possible and everyone else can f
k off! It’s the height of selfishness. The country is getting bigger, cars are getting cheaper. We only have a small amount of space and can't keeping going as we are. Type R Tom said:
The problem is the average trip length in this country is 7 miles, easily a distance that could be completed by another means be it public transport or cycling. Now before everyone starts with “I live in the country side I must drive” or “I’ve hurt my back and can’t cycle” etc. etc. etc. it’s obvious that using other methods isn't suitable for everyone but I think if a lot of people took a long honest look at themselves they could find other means, you can’t moan about traffic if you are the traffic
Firstly the people making a journey are better placed to determine the mode of transport that best meets their needs, better than any manager in an office miles away. The fact that a journey could be make in another way is no basis for anyone to get jiggy with transport totalitarianism by dictating that it must be made another way, As for moaning about the traffic, this is deep irony! The entire point of the report, which strikes a chord with its motoring readers due to a perfect match with experience over many years, is that congestion and delays are being engineered-in under the claim of engineering them out. Type R Tom said:
With cycle lanes it seems like you’re dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. People say cycling is dangerous so segregation is introduced but that is wrong as it slows traffic.
It's down to use of logic (and common sense) which the report rightly identifies as absent. Take parts of the A40 from the west country towards Gatspoxfordshire. Single carriageway with long delays, as motorists sit in traffic jams watching one lycra-clad zealot sweat past every 5 minutes along barely used cycle lanes on both sides that are meant to be a positive thing when in fact that entire stretch of the A40 needs to be dual carriageway.Type R Tom said:
The traffic light thing makes me laugh too, removing them introduces ambiguity thereby making it safer as people negotiate the area more slowly.
No, it doesn't, practical experience of junctions where lights fail at rush hour show that traffic flow can be and is far better without the lights. I gave one example, sonebody else provided another. I doubt that either of us would claim that this is always the case or that no junctions benefit from traffic light use, it's that logic and commom sense thing again so that where it's bleedin' obvious locally that the lights are part of the problem not the solution then they are ripped out faster than they were installed. Type R Tom said:
Until driver-less cars are introduced and everything is computer controlled, we only have a finite amount of space so you need to decide how you want it used, unfortunately the majority of people want to get from A to B as quickly as possible and everyone else can fk off! It’s the height of selfishness.
Yes, which is why it's criminal that traffic managers see removal of road space as a good thing...two lanes become one with white diagonal hatchings either side, roads are closed to funnel traffic onto selected routes (try convincing me this wasn't in anticipation of road charging), no turns and so on. Local knowledge shows these are by no means always there because of safety. As to Presclot's bus lanes, what a joke. k off! It’s the height of selfishness.Type R Tom said:
The country is getting bigger, cars are getting cheaper. We only have a small amount of space and can't keeping going as we are.
No, we can't. We need more common sense and logic in traffic management and less politicking around anti-car ideology, exactly as per the article. Let's not kid ourselves that it doesn't exist - a Reading traffic management bigwig was interviewed after his appointment and commented that it was his job to make car use as unpleasant as possible. Reading residents may not have heard this but may have noticed the results. Then there's the Highways Agency bod who described car commuters as 'the lowest of the low'.I’m not going to answer every point but as far as I can tell the crux of your argument is that we should not be encouraging people out of their cars and if anything actively encouraging it by making journeys as quick as possible. People are lazy and will use the easiest methods, its human nature. With a limit amount of space for this to happen it must all be given to the motorist.
I can’t comment on the specific examples as I don’t know them but the way I see it is there is not enough space in this country for everyone to drive individual cars in every possible situation so something needs to be done to encourage other means. We need to get people out of cars for a lot of their journeys (benefits health too) and you feel the current methods are wrong, so what do we do?
Ideas are often trailed, sometime they work sometimes they don’t, the examples a case in point. Until you try it you don’t know, only a certain amount of designs work on a PC or at the TRL, everyone has a different opinion on road layouts, the person that shouts the loudest seem to get their own way, be it the cyclists or motorist.
I can’t comment on the specific examples as I don’t know them but the way I see it is there is not enough space in this country for everyone to drive individual cars in every possible situation so something needs to be done to encourage other means. We need to get people out of cars for a lot of their journeys (benefits health too) and you feel the current methods are wrong, so what do we do?
Ideas are often trailed, sometime they work sometimes they don’t, the examples a case in point. Until you try it you don’t know, only a certain amount of designs work on a PC or at the TRL, everyone has a different opinion on road layouts, the person that shouts the loudest seem to get their own way, be it the cyclists or motorist.
Type R Tom said:
The problem is the average trip length in this country is 7 miles, easily a distance that could be completed by another means be it public transport or cycling. Now before everyone starts with “I live in the country side I must drive” or “I’ve hurt my back and can’t cycle” etc. etc. etc. it’s obvious that using other methods isn't suitable for everyone but I think if a lot of people took a long honest look at themselves they could find other means, you can’t moan about traffic if you are the traffic!
All very well if you live and work in a city. I live in a village on the edge of Taunton and now work in the centre of Exeter. Up until the end of June I (and a 100 other colleagues) were based just off J29 of the M5 where we had plenty of parking.As part of the move we were all asked to work out how long it would take us get to the new office by public transport. I start work at 07:30, so need to be there by 07:15 to get the PC fired up in time. To get to the railway station I either can get a bus into the town centre and then walk to the station, or I could just walk to the station - in theory. The first bus from the village to town starts at 08:00, so that's a no-go. The walk to the station would take about 45mins. I would then need to get a train to Exeter and once there walk to the office. So assuming there was a train that left Taunton and got me to Exeter St Thomas station at times to suit, I'd need to leave home at 05:30. No thanks, I'll stick to driving the car!
Rich G said:
All very well if you live and work in a city. I live in a village on the edge of Taunton and now work in the centre of Exeter. Up until the end of June I (and a 100 other colleagues) were based just off J29 of the M5 where we had plenty of parking.
As part of the move we were all asked to work out how long it would take us get to the new office by public transport. I start work at 07:30, so need to be there by 07:15 to get the PC fired up in time. To get to the railway station I either can get a bus into the town centre and then walk to the station, or I could just walk to the station - in theory. The first bus from the village to town starts at 08:00, so that's a no-go. The walk to the station would take about 45mins. I would then need to get a train to Exeter and once there walk to the office. So assuming there was a train that left Taunton and got me to Exeter St Thomas station at times to suit, I'd need to leave home at 05:30. No thanks, I'll stick to driving the car!
That's fine, sounds like you need a car but for everyone like you there are going to be a couple that don't. Maybe not for you but companies need to think of there part in it all. Do my staff need to come in everyday? Can they work from home? Do they need to work 9-5? All of these things would help towards reducing congestion. Some of these points would reduce overheads for companies (smaller offices, less parking) making them more efficient. As part of the move we were all asked to work out how long it would take us get to the new office by public transport. I start work at 07:30, so need to be there by 07:15 to get the PC fired up in time. To get to the railway station I either can get a bus into the town centre and then walk to the station, or I could just walk to the station - in theory. The first bus from the village to town starts at 08:00, so that's a no-go. The walk to the station would take about 45mins. I would then need to get a train to Exeter and once there walk to the office. So assuming there was a train that left Taunton and got me to Exeter St Thomas station at times to suit, I'd need to leave home at 05:30. No thanks, I'll stick to driving the car!
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff