Radio 2 music "skipping"
Discussion
C0ffin D0dger said:
they really need to sort out whatever software/hardware they're using as it's really not good.
Notelecat said:
Most of the Music is stored digitally on a server so it could be a Bad disk.
NoC0ffin D0dger said:
There's some theory on another forum that it could be to do with the RDS retuning
YesSeveral people said:
I listen to Radio 2
You should be ashamed.I thought it was just me, I do think its an RDS thing though, I have noticed the general signal quality of R2 in Kent has dipped in the last few months and I think its constantly trying to pick up a better source hence the sometimes skipping
Maybe the BBC have dialled down some of the FM transmitters in the SE?
Maybe the BBC have dialled down some of the FM transmitters in the SE?
How audio gets from the studio to the transmitter, this may explain the skipping.
I have no idea how the BBC transmitters are fed, I've never worked for them. I have been to a few transmitter halls and the kit looks similar :-)
In the commercial world..
There will be a main line (usually a kilostream with APTx audio codecs) from the studio all the way to the transmitter site. Aptx is used as it has very low delay encoding/decoding.
This will be backed up with an ISDN line carrying Mpeg audio (Mpeg audio is slightly delayed 1/2 second maybe a tad more)
If the transmitter switching kit detects a fault on the main line it will dial up the ISDN and switch once ready. The audio you hear will then jump back slightly. The audio will then jump forward once the main line is restored.
The transmitter maintainers can also force the switching for maintanece purposes. So if BT say "Hi your kilostream will be down today" a forced switch will be done.
There will also be a last resort backup at the trasmitter site that can be put to air incase both ISDN and Kilostream are failed.
sometimes this last resort is a DAB tuner (upto a 2 second delay) or a web encoder feed (delay length ???)
Its unlikely to be a studio playout machine fault (ie duff hard disk) as this would be very quickly rectified, presenters have a habbit of nagging engineers when things go wrong. Most of the playout machines are fed from servers with multiple disks and very quick network connections.
RDS is also a pain.
Lets say 1 transmitter is on ISDN or its backup and your in-between 2 transmitter sites your radio may switch back and forth between an out of sync site and a good one, switching off AF on your radio may help.
A pal of mine works for the BBC, i'll email him this topic and he may be able to inform technology.
I have no idea how the BBC transmitters are fed, I've never worked for them. I have been to a few transmitter halls and the kit looks similar :-)
In the commercial world..
There will be a main line (usually a kilostream with APTx audio codecs) from the studio all the way to the transmitter site. Aptx is used as it has very low delay encoding/decoding.
This will be backed up with an ISDN line carrying Mpeg audio (Mpeg audio is slightly delayed 1/2 second maybe a tad more)
If the transmitter switching kit detects a fault on the main line it will dial up the ISDN and switch once ready. The audio you hear will then jump back slightly. The audio will then jump forward once the main line is restored.
The transmitter maintainers can also force the switching for maintanece purposes. So if BT say "Hi your kilostream will be down today" a forced switch will be done.
There will also be a last resort backup at the trasmitter site that can be put to air incase both ISDN and Kilostream are failed.
sometimes this last resort is a DAB tuner (upto a 2 second delay) or a web encoder feed (delay length ???)
Its unlikely to be a studio playout machine fault (ie duff hard disk) as this would be very quickly rectified, presenters have a habbit of nagging engineers when things go wrong. Most of the playout machines are fed from servers with multiple disks and very quick network connections.
RDS is also a pain.
Lets say 1 transmitter is on ISDN or its backup and your in-between 2 transmitter sites your radio may switch back and forth between an out of sync site and a good one, switching off AF on your radio may help.
A pal of mine works for the BBC, i'll email him this topic and he may be able to inform technology.
528Sport said:
How audio gets from the studio to the transmitter, this may explain the skipping.
RDS is also a pain.
Lets say 1 transmitter is out of sync withon ISDN or its backup and another and you're in-between 2 transmitter sites your radio may switch back and forth between them an out of sync site and a good one.
YesRDS is also a pain.
Lets say 1 transmitter is out of sync with
Edited by TheInternet on Monday 22 August 20:32
TheInternet said:
528Sport said:
How audio gets from the studio to the transmitter, this may explain the skipping.
RDS is also a pain.
Lets say 1 transmitter is out of sync withon ISDN or its backup and another and you're in-between 2 transmitter sites your radio may switch back and forth between them an out of sync site and a good one.
YesRDS is also a pain.
Lets say 1 transmitter is out of sync with
Edited by TheInternet on Monday 22 August 20:32
Normally 2/multiple transmitter sites boradcasting the same service in normal conditions are not out of sync, we work very hard to ensure this.
Edited by 528Sport on Tuesday 23 August 09:46
[quote=528Sport]
Not sure why youve crossed bits out? Are you saying my 23 years of broadcast engineering experience is wrong?
Normally 2/multiple transmitter sites boradcasting the same service in normal conditions are not out of sync, we work very hard to ensure this.
Do you not yet know that all PH members, aside from being powerfully built company directors with multiple directorships, are also experts in everything regardless of experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure that the BBC transmitters are feed via a digital multiplex feed of all the radio stations, I think via Arqiva?? as the BBC transmitter arm was sold off a while back. Some of the more remote sites maybe repeaters of another transmitter site. All in all the 'skipping' could be being caused by a number of different issues depending on where in the country you are. As someone said earlier I doubt that it is the hard disc 'jukebox' used by R2, as that would be noticed pretty quickly by the jocks or the studio manager!!
Not sure why youve crossed bits out? Are you saying my 23 years of broadcast engineering experience is wrong?
Normally 2/multiple transmitter sites boradcasting the same service in normal conditions are not out of sync, we work very hard to ensure this.
Do you not yet know that all PH members, aside from being powerfully built company directors with multiple directorships, are also experts in everything regardless of experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure that the BBC transmitters are feed via a digital multiplex feed of all the radio stations, I think via Arqiva?? as the BBC transmitter arm was sold off a while back. Some of the more remote sites maybe repeaters of another transmitter site. All in all the 'skipping' could be being caused by a number of different issues depending on where in the country you are. As someone said earlier I doubt that it is the hard disc 'jukebox' used by R2, as that would be noticed pretty quickly by the jocks or the studio manager!!
number 46 said:
528Sport said:
Not sure why youve crossed bits out? Are you saying my 23 years of broadcast engineering experience is wrong?
Normally 2/multiple transmitter sites boradcasting the same service in normal conditions are not out of sync, we work very hard to ensure this.
Do you not yet know that all PH members, aside from being powerfully built company directors with multiple directorships, are also experts in everything regardless of experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure that the BBC transmitters are feed via a digital multiplex feed of all the radio stations, I think via Arqiva?? as the BBC transmitter arm was sold off a while back. Some of the more remote sites maybe repeaters of another transmitter site. All in all the 'skipping' could be being caused by a number of different issues depending on where in the country you are. As someone said earlier I doubt that it is the hard disc 'jukebox' used by R2, as that would be noticed pretty quickly by the jocks or the studio manager!!
NGW and Arqiva merged together some time ago, I remeber that time.Normally 2/multiple transmitter sites boradcasting the same service in normal conditions are not out of sync, we work very hard to ensure this.
Do you not yet know that all PH members, aside from being powerfully built company directors with multiple directorships, are also experts in everything regardless of experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure that the BBC transmitters are feed via a digital multiplex feed of all the radio stations, I think via Arqiva?? as the BBC transmitter arm was sold off a while back. Some of the more remote sites maybe repeaters of another transmitter site. All in all the 'skipping' could be being caused by a number of different issues depending on where in the country you are. As someone said earlier I doubt that it is the hard disc 'jukebox' used by R2, as that would be noticed pretty quickly by the jocks or the studio manager!!
You are correct about the digital bit, not sure if its multiplex as ive never worked for the BBC. The old links were using Nicam technology and its the nicam kit and its supporting lines that being phased out in favour of audio over IP networks.
Having been on Pistonheads for many years I keep forgetting that we have to quote you "powerfully built company directors with multiple directorships, are also experts in everything regardless of experience"
Thanks for the reminder :-)
Anyone interested can read this.
https://www.arqiva.com/views/blog/supporting-the-f...
In the mean time there are 2 choices, either live with the "skipping" or turn AF off on your radio to stop it switching between transmitter sites.
I did wonder if it was to do with having traffic info on, as your car radio is switching to a local radio station. Also auto seek may have the same effect as it switches between different transmitters. I think the nicam stuff is very old and was used on the old BBC PCM distribution system years back. The whole digital mux distribution thing throws up loads of issues for the beeb as they have local radio and tv stations. Bit like the opt out slid after the main news on BBC TV HD, they just don't have the funds to upgrade all the local news to do digital HD opts yet. When you look at the number of TV and radio stations that are sent around the country via digital muxs on different platforms its miracle that any of it works!!!!
Edited by number 46 on Tuesday 23 August 13:49
528Sport said:
I've mailed my pal at the BBC technology
Had mail back
"they are replacing older lines with newer IP based circuits and there is a delay between old and new"
This will go away once the older lines have ceased
So there you go.
Cheers initially thought my golf's antenna was faulty initially as could see it was constantly switching from 97.9 to 98.9 and this was when the skipping happened. Only when I drove a pool car at work and that was the same I thought it must be a transmition issue.Had mail back
"they are replacing older lines with newer IP based circuits and there is a delay between old and new"
This will go away once the older lines have ceased
So there you go.
Edited by 528Sport on Tuesday 23 August 10:45
528Sport said:
I've mailed my pal at the BBC technology
Had mail back
"they are replacing older lines with newer IP based circuits and there is a delay between old and new"
This will go away once the older lines have ceased
So there you go.
Thank you very muchHad mail back
"they are replacing older lines with newer IP based circuits and there is a delay between old and new"
This will go away once the older lines have ceased
So there you go.
Edited by 528Sport on Tuesday 23 August 10:45
I’ve noticed this several times over the last few months on R2 on my car radio using DAB. It’s always when I’m driving, I haven’t tried it on normal FM. I originally thought it was the car as it was new in March, and couldn’t bear the thought of having to take it back to the very unhelpful Nissan dealers. I’m glad I found this site and know it’s not me hearing things!
As you may know, it’s similar to the needle on an old vinyl record jumping backwards; when you’re listening to a song, even the same song a couple of times, it seems to ‘jump’ go back a line in the song, very frustrating. Who can we contact?
As you may know, it’s similar to the needle on an old vinyl record jumping backwards; when you’re listening to a song, even the same song a couple of times, it seems to ‘jump’ go back a line in the song, very frustrating. Who can we contact?
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