Top Gear 2016 Official TV show thread *contains spoilers*
Discussion
Artey said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
I think I just liked Clarkson, Hammond and May. I think I could just about watch them do anything. TGT could feature not a single car and it would still be a better watch than the new TG.
The main appeal of CHM's TG was that it essentially was a show about good mates who don't give a single f
k about political correctness and happen to like cars. If they were talking about trains, planes or food it would have been as entertaining to watch and could have easily filled the 8PM Sunday spot on BBC 2 with similar audience numbers. Slippydiff said:
Evans is a divisive character, always has been, always will be (as is Chris Harris). PH is not unique in having outspoken individuals willing to rubbish anything and everything a divisive character does, far from it.
Evans initially said he wouldn't want and wouldn't do the TG gig, that he did a U turn was always going to give the naysayers their first round of ammunition.
I've spoken about Evans on here before. I watched as his stock grew (and he became increasingly egotistical, narcissistic and generally obnoxious), and then as he subsequently had a meltdown that made him all but unemployable.
But I also remember when the Beeb gave him another chance, albeit on a very limited basis. Those were some weekday Bank Holiday afternoon slots and IIRC a Saturday afternoon slot on R2 standing in for others.
Suitably chastened, Evans returned to his roots and with the aid of his posse, he produced some truly excellent radio shows. But what really shone through was his humility, he realised he'd previously screwed up and and p*ssed off/irritated a lot of people into the bargain.
With no pressure (other than to save his career) his egotism took a back seat, and the resultant individual was an absolute joy to listen to.
Regrettably as his stock rose at the Beeb, the obnoxious Evans once more came to the fore, and when he took over from the now much missed T Wogan, the stage was set for Evans egotism to run riot further still.
Under the same circumstances as he finds himself in now, Evans would no doubt point to the viewing figures he garners for his breakfast shown on R2, but that rather misses the point as I suspect very few individuals who listened to Wogan's show for many years actually went on to listen (consistently) to Evans breakfast show. Sure they may have tuned in for the first show (given very mediocre ratings IIRC), and possibly stuck with it for a week or more, but ultimately many will have looked elsewhere whilst Evans attracted a whole new audience.
Will the same happen with TG ? I doubt it somehow.
So far from villifying him purely for the sake of it, many on here are merely voicing opinions they've held on Evans for many years based on his previous behaviour. Those "Internet Plebs" as you refer to them (do you include yourself I wonder ?)
may well be the very individuals Evans and the Beeb should be trying to placate and produce a show they want to watch/worth watching.
Love it or loathe it, TG became a national institution with its three Last of the Summer Winesque figures. As a result many hoped that the Beeb and Evans were going to build on the previous format and additionally breathe some new life into it. Saturday's performance was a less than thrilling result, all the more so if they've had (by your own admission) a year to work on it.
Only time will tell, but I suspect that Clarkson, Captain Slow and the Hamster will produce something truly spectacular that will make the revamped TG look very lame indeed. Clarkson, for all his faults, has the personality, skill and sheer bloodymindedness to ensure that what appears on Amazon later this year will be a fitting two fingered gesture to the Beeb. I for one look forward to "TG the Turbocharged edition" ....
Evans initially said he wouldn't want and wouldn't do the TG gig, that he did a U turn was always going to give the naysayers their first round of ammunition.
I've spoken about Evans on here before. I watched as his stock grew (and he became increasingly egotistical, narcissistic and generally obnoxious), and then as he subsequently had a meltdown that made him all but unemployable.
But I also remember when the Beeb gave him another chance, albeit on a very limited basis. Those were some weekday Bank Holiday afternoon slots and IIRC a Saturday afternoon slot on R2 standing in for others.
Suitably chastened, Evans returned to his roots and with the aid of his posse, he produced some truly excellent radio shows. But what really shone through was his humility, he realised he'd previously screwed up and and p*ssed off/irritated a lot of people into the bargain.
With no pressure (other than to save his career) his egotism took a back seat, and the resultant individual was an absolute joy to listen to.
Regrettably as his stock rose at the Beeb, the obnoxious Evans once more came to the fore, and when he took over from the now much missed T Wogan, the stage was set for Evans egotism to run riot further still.
Under the same circumstances as he finds himself in now, Evans would no doubt point to the viewing figures he garners for his breakfast shown on R2, but that rather misses the point as I suspect very few individuals who listened to Wogan's show for many years actually went on to listen (consistently) to Evans breakfast show. Sure they may have tuned in for the first show (given very mediocre ratings IIRC), and possibly stuck with it for a week or more, but ultimately many will have looked elsewhere whilst Evans attracted a whole new audience.
Will the same happen with TG ? I doubt it somehow.
So far from villifying him purely for the sake of it, many on here are merely voicing opinions they've held on Evans for many years based on his previous behaviour. Those "Internet Plebs" as you refer to them (do you include yourself I wonder ?)
may well be the very individuals Evans and the Beeb should be trying to placate and produce a show they want to watch/worth watching.Love it or loathe it, TG became a national institution with its three Last of the Summer Winesque figures. As a result many hoped that the Beeb and Evans were going to build on the previous format and additionally breathe some new life into it. Saturday's performance was a less than thrilling result, all the more so if they've had (by your own admission) a year to work on it.
Only time will tell, but I suspect that Clarkson, Captain Slow and the Hamster will produce something truly spectacular that will make the revamped TG look very lame indeed. Clarkson, for all his faults, has the personality, skill and sheer bloodymindedness to ensure that what appears on Amazon later this year will be a fitting two fingered gesture to the Beeb. I for one look forward to "TG the Turbocharged edition" ....
A balanced critique. Very good summation of the issue with Chris Evans. I got myself the reputation of being the man's biggest single critic here on PH and it doesn't make me happy to feel not just a little vindicated at the moment. I've not slated the new episode the way many have. My first response was that Matt LeBLanc surprised me in a good way, and I am happy to take back some of the comments I made about his wooden delivery on TG slots he'd recorded for BBC America.
It's just that Evans really has resorted to type with Top Gear in every perceivable way possible and that was laid bare on the screen on Sunday (starting with the 'me front and centre before the titles even roll'), and with the hissy-fit tweets afterwards.
The acid test though is the American response - an audience that comes to Evans cold and with little or no knowledge of his past, taking him at face value they have universally panned him.
The writing is clearly on the wall. Evans now has to go back to that tiny spot in his career when he showed some humility, or get the hell out before he drags the whole thing down just to satiate his ego.
I'm not expecting things to change next week (Sharleen Spiteri?!?!?), but I am predicting a further ratings fall and how he reacts to that will be the signpost of what happens next.
I am very surprised how this did not seem to work. Having watched and heard Chris Evans bounce off a wide variety of guests and members of the public on phone ins, he always did that really well. I can't understand how this rare chemistry and capability seemed to be missing in the show. Certainly, I don't see LeBlanc doing it any time soon.
IMO, he was trying to whip up the audience too much in the studio segments. The previous presenters didn't do this, they just let the material and delivery generate the reaction.
I really hope that he adapts his style and makes a success of it. As some say, he is polarising, but it seems his chief talent of interacting well with a wide variety of people very naturally is just not coming through on TG.
Content - Disappointed, but will keep watching. The Vette versus Viper bit was infantile, didn't like Leblanc in the Meccano car chase bks, and fell asleep (big BBQ and lager session to blame) when star in a car came on. Not interested in three wheelers of landies, so wouldn't expect to see anything interesting in that section.
IMO, he was trying to whip up the audience too much in the studio segments. The previous presenters didn't do this, they just let the material and delivery generate the reaction.
I really hope that he adapts his style and makes a success of it. As some say, he is polarising, but it seems his chief talent of interacting well with a wide variety of people very naturally is just not coming through on TG.
Content - Disappointed, but will keep watching. The Vette versus Viper bit was infantile, didn't like Leblanc in the Meccano car chase b
ks, and fell asleep (big BBQ and lager session to blame) when star in a car came on. Not interested in three wheelers of landies, so wouldn't expect to see anything interesting in that section.Slippydiff said:
Only time will tell, but I suspect that Clarkson, Captain Slow and the Hamster will produce something truly spectacular that will make the revamped TG look very lame indeed. Clarkson, for all his faults, has the personality, skill and sheer bloodymindedness to ensure that what appears on Amazon later this year will be a fitting two fingered gesture to the Beeb. I for one look forward to "TG the Turbocharged edition" ....
TBH I'm still a little trepidant over what Clarkson will come up with for TGT. Most of his non Top Gear 'Clarkson' DVD's have been less than thrilling 'rag this' and 'blow stuff up' fests, with the man himself undoubtedly better on regular TV in smaller doses and also much more enjoyable when taken with two antidotes in the form of Hammond and May, hopefully that particular cocktail continues to work its magic on Amazon.Edited by OctiMoron on Tuesday 31st May 12:13
MarkRSi said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
MarshPhantom said:
Pesty said:
t having seem the facts on viewing figures based on an outdated system and after its beaten of such tough competition as the antiques road show and the British soap awards. It was quoted that the ginger prick would be disssapointed with less than 5 million viewers on Sunday. Having saw the calibre of viewing pleasures the public had to choose from, he has done well in reflection. He really is a w
k stain on the bedsheets of humanity. Leins said:
boxst said:
For me the disappointment with Chris Evans is purely that he didn't do anything creative with the show. The shouting was annoying but presumably will calm down.
Very much this. I'm actually something of an Evans fan, ever since his BB days, and his presenting style doesn't really bother me too muchFor whatever reason however, the programme introduced very little in the way of new features, and if anyone should have had the power to revolutionise it then surely it was Evans. I can only assume it was like one of those God-awful "brain-storming" sessions you see on The Apprentice for months where nothing original is proposed, so in the end they just went with what came before. That's the most disappointing element for me - opportunity badly missed, death through indecision I fear
On another note, why does Evans even need to do any of the car reviews or features? Let him just be the linchpin in the studio
So I really don't buy the argument that it would've been great had he just been left to get on with it.
OctiMoron said:
Slippydiff said:
Only time will tell, but I suspect that Clarkson, Captain Slow and the Hamster will produce something truly spectacular that will make the revamped TG look very lame indeed. Clarkson, for all his faults, has the personality, skill and sheer bloodymindedness to ensure that what appears on Amazon later this year will be a fitting two fingered gesture to the Beeb. I for one look forward to "TG the Turbocharged edition" ....
TBH I'm still a little trepidant over what Clarkson will come up with for TGT. Most of his non Top Gear 'Clarkson' DVD's have been less than thrilling 'rag this' and 'blow stuff up' fests, with the man himself undoubtedly better on regular TV in smaller doses and also much more enjoyable when taken with two antidotes in the form of Hammond and May, hopefully that particular cocktail continues to work its magic on Amazon.Clarkson is a brilliant car journo first and foremost, with an ability to engage and entertain in innovative ways, and that is what I believe a great car show needs. He will take risks, backed by a huge budget, and I suspect it will bear dividends. Evans / the BBC should have done the same and stolen a march, but one now wonders if they actually had the skills to do that
MarshPhantom said:
Evans said the day he got the job it would be evolution not revolution, SIARPC would stay.
So I really don't buy the argument that it would've been great had he just been left to get on with it.
As above, that's what I'm now wondering - was it the BBC playing safe, or just Evans not having fresh ideas? I just can't imagine Evans being happy with not putting his own stamp on it, but for one reason or another he hasn't been able to. I'm perhaps in the minority here, but I actually feel a little sorry for himSo I really don't buy the argument that it would've been great had he just been left to get on with it.
Edited by Leins on Tuesday 31st May 12:33
This show was never going to get positive reviews, you only had to look at the amount dislikes that every video on the Top Gear YouTube channel got between fracas-gate and now to see that there is a collective of adolescent Jezza lovers who had no intention of giving the show a far chance, disliking YouTube videos before they watched them. I can't think of any new series of a TV show under more pressure than this Top Gear revamp.
Having said that, there was quite a lot of this show that is hard to defend, right from the start it seemed Chris Evans was being pushed as they 'new Jeremy' with a Jeremy style opening voiceover, and Jeremy style metaphors in the review video. It might not be Chris Evans' fault, it might the script-writers who wrote the Clarkson-esque lines, but either way, if this show wants to move forward, it's got to stop.
I did like Matt LeBlanc, he seemed a bit wooden in places, but I'm willing to put that down to teething problems, I think he has potential to settle in well.
The rallycross twist on the SIARPC segment was genius, full praise to whoever thought of that. It makes what always has been the most tedious segment on much more interesting. However, they shot themselves in the foot with the guests, Gordon Ramsey was a decent enough guest, clearly into his cars. But that other fella had no idea what was going on, showed no interest in cars, all it did was make an already awkward Top Gear episode, much more awkward.
I thought 'Extra Gear' was brilliant, Rory Reid and Chris Harris were both excellent, I can't criticise either of them, it's just a shame they're not on the main show
Having said that, there was quite a lot of this show that is hard to defend, right from the start it seemed Chris Evans was being pushed as they 'new Jeremy' with a Jeremy style opening voiceover, and Jeremy style metaphors in the review video. It might not be Chris Evans' fault, it might the script-writers who wrote the Clarkson-esque lines, but either way, if this show wants to move forward, it's got to stop.
I did like Matt LeBlanc, he seemed a bit wooden in places, but I'm willing to put that down to teething problems, I think he has potential to settle in well.
The rallycross twist on the SIARPC segment was genius, full praise to whoever thought of that. It makes what always has been the most tedious segment on much more interesting. However, they shot themselves in the foot with the guests, Gordon Ramsey was a decent enough guest, clearly into his cars. But that other fella had no idea what was going on, showed no interest in cars, all it did was make an already awkward Top Gear episode, much more awkward.
I thought 'Extra Gear' was brilliant, Rory Reid and Chris Harris were both excellent, I can't criticise either of them, it's just a shame they're not on the main show
I think in a way there'd have been criticism if the show was exactly the same as before, as much as if there were a mass of changes.
Sort of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' thing.
But there's just something about Evans I can't gel with. The previous iteration might've been a tired format, but the trio were what did work well. It's going to be very difficult to rejuvenate that.
Sort of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' thing.
But there's just something about Evans I can't gel with. The previous iteration might've been a tired format, but the trio were what did work well. It's going to be very difficult to rejuvenate that.
HustleRussell said:
I think I will now suffer the same disappointment tuning into Top Gear that I feel when I tune into a nature documentary to find it isn't Attenborough- or, funnily enough, Radio 2 sans Wogan.
I know the feeling. I dread the day Attenborough passes away. His presentation is just captivating. Just to add my 2p. Frankly, I was disappointed, and not necessarily with the presenters because it takes lots of time for the bonds of familiarity that we're all so, er, familiar with, to form. S1 of the old "new" TG had Jason Dawe and he got swapped out for James May, so we know this stuff takes time. I didn't like Evan's style per say, but that's manageable(ish) weekly. He was more watchable in the pre-shot pieces. MLB was much better than expected in the studio and in the pre-shot stuff. I rather liked the (presumably, hopefully) series long storyline they're run about him being a fish out of water in the UK.
By far the biggest disappointment was that the production team gave us almost nothing new, took no risks with the format. Testing sporty cars with advanced weaponry? They did that way-back-when with a Merc and a Boxster. Granted, I'm not a 14 year old boy, who'd be unaware of the Merc vs Porsche bit unless he lived watching Dave, and who knows? Adding weaponry to a Viper might be the best thing in the world for the lad. Less so for a serial TG fan in his 30's.
Testing a car while being chased for a "shot" is basically the same thing, and they also did it from the air in the US before. MLB was good though, and the cinematography quality was good too.
SIARPC - new track, great. Wipes out all history. Car looks good - manageable by the stars with Eisenbergian talent levels as well as seasoned helmsmiths. The SIARPC segment was dire though. With two guests, especially when promoting unrelated things, Evans is going to have to work really hard on giving both airtime and also making it interesting to the viewer. Better use the Nick Frost/Simon Pegg or Tom Cruise/Cameron Diaz model and have them both be there for the same reason. Pre-generated chemistry between guests and a common promo goal, leaving more time for engaging chit-chat. Dare I say it, the segment should be longer to allow for interest to develop.
The Reliant/4x4 piece was weird too. I quite liked the first bit, but it can't have been easy given the USA car died so fast. However, why not make the old cars bit more of a history lesson (keep it light of course), then instead of climbing a mountain in a 4x4 (again, JC got there first) how about testing them on a real 4x4 course, then back-to-backing it with Harris doing a real "road" test in a brand new 4x4 of some sort. Chuck a muddy Evans and MLB in the back and have them interview Harris about the car's tech as they bump about. Get the history and technology lesson, the who's better - US/UK, and the modern road-test all in one?
By far the nicest surprise was Rory Reid, who was watchable, engaging and enthusiastic. I was disappointed by Harris's piece, but only because I'm a big fan and I've seen the high quality content he's put together before. Maybe the Nomad's a handful, or he was being directed in one ear, distracted by the lack of wind protection, whatever, but I felt his commentary was below par - maybe the editor lacked attention, but mentioning Ohlin's twice made it seem like he was struggling to concentrate, or literally had one lap to do the entire commentary, and all the lairy driving. Only because he's set his own bar so high was I disappointed mind. As he get's happier and more comfortable, he'll do really well. A guy at work who's never heard of Harris before reckoned he was the best of both shows.
I will watch more, I will complain more, and I'll also enjoy the epic CHM era TG too, with Vietnam, Polar exploring, Britcar, making an Avantime fast, the big races, because it was really good.
A for the record, Porter's synopsis of this thread seems pretty spot on. Though I don't work in IT and I have seen a girl's bits. Once.
By far the biggest disappointment was that the production team gave us almost nothing new, took no risks with the format. Testing sporty cars with advanced weaponry? They did that way-back-when with a Merc and a Boxster. Granted, I'm not a 14 year old boy, who'd be unaware of the Merc vs Porsche bit unless he lived watching Dave, and who knows? Adding weaponry to a Viper might be the best thing in the world for the lad. Less so for a serial TG fan in his 30's.
Testing a car while being chased for a "shot" is basically the same thing, and they also did it from the air in the US before. MLB was good though, and the cinematography quality was good too.
SIARPC - new track, great. Wipes out all history. Car looks good - manageable by the stars with Eisenbergian talent levels as well as seasoned helmsmiths. The SIARPC segment was dire though. With two guests, especially when promoting unrelated things, Evans is going to have to work really hard on giving both airtime and also making it interesting to the viewer. Better use the Nick Frost/Simon Pegg or Tom Cruise/Cameron Diaz model and have them both be there for the same reason. Pre-generated chemistry between guests and a common promo goal, leaving more time for engaging chit-chat. Dare I say it, the segment should be longer to allow for interest to develop.
The Reliant/4x4 piece was weird too. I quite liked the first bit, but it can't have been easy given the USA car died so fast. However, why not make the old cars bit more of a history lesson (keep it light of course), then instead of climbing a mountain in a 4x4 (again, JC got there first) how about testing them on a real 4x4 course, then back-to-backing it with Harris doing a real "road" test in a brand new 4x4 of some sort. Chuck a muddy Evans and MLB in the back and have them interview Harris about the car's tech as they bump about. Get the history and technology lesson, the who's better - US/UK, and the modern road-test all in one?
By far the nicest surprise was Rory Reid, who was watchable, engaging and enthusiastic. I was disappointed by Harris's piece, but only because I'm a big fan and I've seen the high quality content he's put together before. Maybe the Nomad's a handful, or he was being directed in one ear, distracted by the lack of wind protection, whatever, but I felt his commentary was below par - maybe the editor lacked attention, but mentioning Ohlin's twice made it seem like he was struggling to concentrate, or literally had one lap to do the entire commentary, and all the lairy driving. Only because he's set his own bar so high was I disappointed mind. As he get's happier and more comfortable, he'll do really well. A guy at work who's never heard of Harris before reckoned he was the best of both shows.
I will watch more, I will complain more, and I'll also enjoy the epic CHM era TG too, with Vietnam, Polar exploring, Britcar, making an Avantime fast, the big races, because it was really good.
A for the record, Porter's synopsis of this thread seems pretty spot on. Though I don't work in IT and I have seen a girl's bits. Once.
HustleRussell said:
I think I will now suffer the same disappointment tuning into Top Gear that I feel when I tune into a nature documentary to find it isn't Attenborough- or, funnily enough, Radio 2 sans Wogan.
loved the mornings with Wogan but not listened much to Evans ,I have seen enough of him on TV over the years to know I don't get him. As far as I can see his talent is making himself rich .I know people like Le Blanc and I thought he was ok but would you really want to see him week in week out?.
It will be interesting to see how it does overseas.
HustleRussell said:
I think I will now suffer the same disappointment tuning into Top Gear that I feel when I tune into a nature documentary to find it isn't Attenborough- or, funnily enough, Radio 2 sans Wogan.
I listened to Evans when he first took over from Sir Terence and actually quite liked it. Fast forward to today and I haven't listened to him in over two years, I can't stand the incessant honking, parping and shouting first thing in the morning. That could be more down to me getting older and grumpier of course. I watched 30 mins of one of the new TFI Fridays and what was absolutely clear to me is that he has completely lost his 'bite' and he now plays with a straight bat. Any edginess he had when he was younger has disappeared to be replaced by a corporate monster who is a consummate professional but lacks warmth, depth and worst of all, humour. Evans just isn't funny. He doesn't make me laugh out loud - ever - and whatever you thought of Clarkson et al they were occasionally very funny. I genuinely won't be watching TG anymore which is a huge shame because I really used to enjoy it despite it being a bit predictable. Evans is just wrong wrong wrong.31mph said:
The rallycross twist on the SIARPC segment was genius...
...except that it wasn't. Using a rallycross car removed the USP of the segment (whether you were aware of that or not, seeing as you are still using the now entirely incorrect acronym).Whoever thought of that clearly wasn't thinking.
Jay Leno took the SIARPC format to his own show and intentionally used a Ford Focus because he understood the point ie. a series of A-listers trolling around a track in a bland box anyone could afford.
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