Your single most annoying thing/mistake in a movie!

Your single most annoying thing/mistake in a movie!

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Discussion

yellowjack

17,080 posts

167 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
Brigand said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The Memphis Belle being escorted by P51Ds.
The whole reason it was such an achievement for Memphis Belle to complete all it's missions was because at that stage in the war there were no P51s available let alone P51Ds so it couldn't be escorted all the way to the target.
The reason the P51 was so special was that it could escort the bombers all the way there and back.
If memory serves the P51's in the movie don't escort them all the way there, near the target they peel off with the 'Belles pilots commenting on the "little friends" getting to turn home now. As for timescales though I don't know enough about the topic off the top of my head to know whether or not the Mustangs were in theatre by that point to actually escort the bombers.
'Memphis Belle' is set in May 1943.

I did a bit of research on the "little friends" when I served at Carver Barracks, in Essex. Reason? It was the base for the 4th Fighter Group, USAAF from September 1942.

Initially flying ex-RAF 'Eagle Squadron' Spitfires, the Group re-equipped with P-47 Thunderbolts. Commanded by Donald James Matthew Blakeslee (1917 – 2008), 133 Squadron claimed it's first 'kill' as late as April 1943. In July '43 the Group flew over Germany for the first time. Blakeslee's first flight in a P-51 Mustang wasn't until December 1943, around about when he was promoted to CO of 4th Fighter Group. It wasn't until March 1944 that a Mustang flew over Berlin, and once again it was Don Blakeslee flying it.

Now, by no means were they the only USAAF Fighter Group in the UK back then. There were about 14 'combat' Fighter Groups assigned to the Eighth Air Force, but it gives an idea of the timeline for the Mustang, and it pretty much is BS that the film shows P-51s at all, and 'D' models in particular escorting the bomber streams - but movie makers need aeroplanes to do 'live' filming with. CGI is all well and good, but is seen through easily. Films like 'Bridge at Remagen' and other 1960s pish use baltantly inaccurate/non-period vehicles, and again you can spoil the film for yourself by counting the gaffes. It's a matter of fact that there are more P-51Ds in preservation and operation than "period correct" P-51Bs and P47s, hence why they were used for the filming. The plot is based on an actual period documentary about a USAAf B-17 crew about to complete the last of their 25 missions to complete 'a tour'. The plan then is to send the crew, and their aircraft on a War Bonds tour of the USA.

The RAF were first to use the Mustang. The P-51A (Mustang 1 to the RAF) was introduced in early 1942. First USAAF Mustangs (P-51Bs) were delivered to front line units in November 1943, but only to the 9th (Tactical) Air Force as a low level tactical fighter, not flying bomber escort missions until December '43.

Maj Gen James Doolittle takes the credit for changing the escort policy. Appointed to command the 8th Air Force from January '44 he instructed his fighters to remain with the bombers the whole way. At first this was the P-47s and P-38 Lightnings he'd inherited. These began to be replaced by the new long-range Mustangs from the spring of 1944. The range improvement of the Mustang over the Thunderbolt was huge. A P-51B could fly as far on it's internal fuel as a P-47 could with external drop-tanks. Doolittle's new 'air supremacy' tactics also hit the Luftwaffe hard. The fighters didn't closely escort the bombers - rather they flew 'sky clearance' missions far ahead of the bomber force, sweeping the defending Luftwaffe "Bomber Destroyers" out of the air, giving the bombers a 'free pass' (*at least that was the intention) en route to the target. By 1945 all but one of the 8th's Fighter Groups had re-equipped with Mustangs.

Sorry to be a bore, but for seven years I lived on the same base that Don Blakeslee commanded during the war. I had access to the concrete Ops Bunker, cycled to my place of work along one of the runways, and saw minor shrapnel damage on the outside wall of my boss's office every time I went across to see him. I ran on the old airfield, on the taxiways and perimeter tracks, past pillboxes and the like. I couldn't help but take quite an active interest in the place, it was like living in a museum (although our barrack blocks were new-builds and luxury by WWII standards).

Edit to add:

In April 1944 one Maj 'Don' Gentile crashed a P-51B Mustang at Debden while "arsing about" (allegedly). He was a high scoring fighter 'ace' and was immediately grounded by Col Blakeslee for the stunt. At the time of the crash he was the leading American 'ace' in the European theatre of operations, but he ended up back in the US selling war bonds too!

Before:


After:


For anyone who does not know RAF Debden, the north/south (ish) runway has a very pronounced 'hump' in the middle, the ends being lower than the point where it crosses the other runway. The height difference is largest between the middle and the southernmost end. From what I can gather by reading the reports, it sounds like Gentile was attempting a low level "terrain following" pass along this runway when he dipped too low, clipped the paved surface with the propeller and then tried to 'go around' to land on the airfield. He didn't make it and crashed onto local farmland (the airfield is surrounded by arable fields and small copses of trees even now). Legend had it that the wreck was bulldozed into a pond, but after years of searching no trace has been found and it is believed that the useful parts of the aircraft would not have been wasted in this way, and that useful spares would have been 'harvested' prior to the remaining frame and panels going into the scrap salvage system.

Back on topic?

On this web page... http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/18316 ...there's a piece of footage from newsreel cameras showing a member of Gentile's ground crew "painting" a new cross on the side of the cockpit. Mimed for the cameras, notice how there doesn't appear to be any paint on the brush, and the lack of a can from which to get said paint.


Edited by yellowjack on Sunday 12th June 18:48

Mr Snrub

24,988 posts

228 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
People being thrown clear by explosions, or just coolly walking away. I'm not munitions expert but I doubt you'd be able to do that after the heat and pressure wave scrambles your internal organs. Still, does give me an excuse to post a link to this song


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo


Eric Mc

122,050 posts

266 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
yellowjack said:
'Memphis Belle' is set in May 1943.

I did a bit of research on the "little friends" when I served at Carver Barracks, in Essex. Reason? It was the base for the 4th Fighter Group, USAAF from September 1942.

Initially flying ex-RAF 'Eagle Squadron' Spitfires, the Group re-equipped with P-47 Thunderbolts. Commanded by Donald James Matthew Blakeslee (1917 – 2008), 133 Squadron claimed it's first 'kill' as late as April 1943. In July '43 the Group flew over Germany for the first time. Blakeslee's first flight in a P-51 Mustang wasn't until December 1943, around about when he was promoted to CO of 4th Fighter Group. It wasn't until March 1944 that a Mustang flew over Berlin, and once again it was Don Blakeslee flying it.

Now, by no means were they the only USAAF Fighter Group in the UK back then. There were about 14 'combat' Fighter Groups assigned to the Eighth Air Force, but it gives an idea of the timeline for the Mustang, and it pretty much is BS that the film shows P-51s at all, and 'D' models in particular escorting the bomber streams - but movie makers need aeroplanes to do 'live' filming with. CGI is all well and good, but is seen through easily. Films like 'Bridge at Remagen' and other 1960s pish use baltantly inaccurate/non-period vehicles, and again you can spoil the film for yourself by counting the gaffes. It's a matter of fact that there are more P-51Ds in preservation and operation than "period correct" P-51Bs and P47s, hence why they were used for the filming. The plot is based on an actual period documentary about a USAAf B-17 crew about to complete the last of their 25 missions to complete 'a tour'. The plan then is to send the crew, and their aircraft on a War Bonds tour of the USA.

The RAF were first to use the Mustang. The P-51A (Mustang 1 to the RAF) was introduced in early 1942. First USAAF Mustangs (P-51Bs) were delivered to front line units in November 1943, but only to the 9th (Tactical) Air Force as a low level tactical fighter, not flying bomber escort missions until December '43.

Maj Gen James Doolittle takes the credit for changing the escort policy. Appointed to command the 8th Air Force from January '44 he instructed his fighters to remain with the bombers the whole way. At first this was the P-47s and P-38 Lightnings he'd inherited. These began to be replaced by the new long-range Mustangs from the spring of 1944. The range improvement of the Mustang over the Thunderbolt was huge. A P-51B could fly as far on it's internal fuel as a P-47 could with external drop-tanks. Doolittle's new 'air supremacy' tactics also hit the Luftwaffe hard. The fighters didn't closely escort the bombers - rather they flew 'sky clearance' missions far ahead of the bomber force, sweeping the defending Luftwaffe "Bomber Destroyers" out of the air, giving the bombers a 'free pass' (*at least that was the intention) en route to the target. By 1945 all but one of the 8th's Fighter Groups had re-equipped with Mustangs.

Sorry to be a bore, but for seven years I lived on the same base that Don Blakeslee commanded during the war. I had access to the concrete Ops Bunker, cycled to my place of work along one of the runways, and saw minor shrapnel damage on the outside wall of my boss's office every time I went across to see him. I ran on the old airfield, on the taxiways and perimeter tracks, past pillboxes and the like. I couldn't help but take quite an active interest in the place, it was like living in a museum (although our barrack blocks were new-builds and luxury by WWII standards).

Edit to add:

In April 1944 one Maj 'Don' Gentile crashed a P-51B Mustang at Debden while "arsing about" (allegedly). He was a high scoring fighter 'ace' and was immediately grounded by Col Blakeslee for the stunt. At the time of the crash he was the leading American 'ace' in the European theatre of operations, but he ended up back in the US selling war bonds too!

Before:


After:


For anyone who does not know RAF Debden, the north/south (ish) runway has a very pronounced 'hump' in the middle, the ends being lower than the point where it crosses the other runway. The height difference is largest between the middle and the southernmost end. From what I can gather by reading the reports, it sounds like Gentile was attempting a low level "terrain following" pass along this runway when he dipped too low, clipped the paved surface with the propeller and then tried to 'go around' to land on the airfield. He didn't make it and crashed onto local farmland (the airfield is surrounded by arable fields and small copses of trees even now). Legend had it that the wreck was bulldozed into a pond, but after years of searching no trace has been found and it is believed that the useful parts of the aircraft would not have been wasted in this way, and that useful spares would have been 'harvested' prior to the remaining frame and panels going into the scrap salvage system.

Back on topic?

On this web page... http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/18316 ...there's a piece of footage from newsreel cameras showing a member of Gentile's ground crew "painting" a new cross on the side of the cockpit. Mimed for the cameras, notice how there doesn't appear to be any paint on the brush, and the lack of a can from which to get said paint.


Edited by yellowjack on Sunday 12th June 18:48
Good stuff YJ smile

I picked up Osprey's "P-51 Mustang Aces" for 50p in a second hand bookstall at Corfe Castle station (Swanage Line) a couple of days ago and a lot of what you say is covered in that book.

yellowjack

17,080 posts

167 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
Mr Snrub said:
People being thrown clear by explosions, or just coolly walking away. I'm not munitions expert but I doubt you'd be able to do that after the heat and pressure wave scrambles your internal organs. Still, does give me an excuse to post a link to this song


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo
Two views of an 'incident' from the 1991 Gulf War...





Top photo - Engulfed in the explosion of the fully armed and fueled Centurion AVREs is the front end of a Chieftain AVLB (bridge layer tank). "Coolly walking away" in front of the FV430 series APC on the left are two chaps who seem entirely oblivious to the explosion. This is because the blast wave reaches you faster than the sound of the explosion (when, as here, you are dealing with High Order Explosives at least). The first indication of an explosion will be the blinding flash (arrives at the speed of light wink ) followed by the blast wave, with the sound very quickly on it's heals. The explosion has been captured in this image probably by shear luck (there was a fire which preceded the 'bang' by a few minutes) and those two chaps (the dark 'uniforms' are NW Europe pattern green NBC suits by the way) are probably not aware of the explosion and approaching debris at the point of shutter release.

The unit involved is 32 Armoured Engineer Regiment, 7 Armoured Brigade. I was there in theatre at the time, but miles away serving with 23 Engr Regt in 4 Armd Bde. Hence the web links as I don't have access to the original photos nor the ability to answer 'eyewitness' questions about this incident. Suffice to say that there was a healthy trade in copies of this photo for office walls, etc, afterwards and there being only two Armoured Engineer regiments at that time, there was a great deal of cross-posting of personnel between those units so I've heard plenty of (genuine) first hand accounts of that day. Suffice to say...

yikes

yellowjack

17,080 posts

167 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
Nimby said:
Time-bombs; always have a nice big countdown display, and made to ISO bomb-wiring standards so the hero knows to cut the red wire. Surely it doesn't matter which wire from the battery / to the detonator you cut?
Timer operated IEDs do need a timer to operate. So yes, there will be a clock involved. But often it's just a regular clock, and upon finding it you won't have the faintest idea at what time it is intended to function. But that wouldn't make for movie suspense so the digital countdown timer is the 'gold standard' in bomb props for the big screen blockbuster.

As for your second point?

It VERY MUCH matters which wires you cut, disconnect, or bypass in order to make a device safe. Simply cutting a wire within the power circuit of a device isn't an option when most bomb makers, and certainly skilled ones, will employ "collapsing circuit" fail safes as the most basic level of protection from interference by EOD operatives. There are many far more complex anti disturbance methods employed by terrorists in IEDs, but a collapsing circuit detonator is what is often being replicated when the overweight, heavily perspiring Bomb Disposal operator is portrayed as cutting the wrong wire and getting covered in corn syrup. (yes, Die Hard With A Vengeance, I'm looking at you!)

texaxile

3,291 posts

151 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
Also the "beep beep beep" of the countdown timer not that I've any experience of bombs, apart from the Jaeger kind smile .

Someone mentioned teeth, I'm rewatching deadwood at the moment and Timothy Olyphants teeth are just far too perfectly white for a wild west sheriff of that time period.

One other thing is that people seem to be able to fire guns in movies then hold a perfectly good conversation soon after. I'm no expert but gunshots (I imagine) are bloody loud without earplugs in, so surely they'd be deaf.

Pesty

42,655 posts

257 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
Mr Snrub said:
People being thrown clear by explosions, or just coolly walking away. I'm not munitions expert but I doubt you'd be able to do that after the heat and pressure wave scrambles your internal organs. Still, does give me an excuse to post a link to this song


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4pg2Du-b758

dudleybloke

19,846 posts

187 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
Interesting documentary about bomb disposal...

https://youtu.be/7YH4kk8WiMk

smile

Pesty

42,655 posts

257 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
yellowjack said:
Timer operated IEDs do need a timer to operate. So yes, there will be a clock involved. But often it's just a regular clock, and upon finding it you won't have the faintest idea at what time it is intended to function. But that wouldn't make for movie suspense so the digital countdown timer is the 'gold standard' in bomb props for the big screen blockbuster.

As for your second point?

It VERY MUCH matters which wires you cut, disconnect, or bypass in order to make a device safe. Simply cutting a wire within the power circuit of a device isn't an option when most bomb makers, and certainly skilled ones, will employ "collapsing circuit" fail safes as the most basic level of protection from interference by EOD operatives. There are many far more complex anti disturbance methods employed by terrorists in IEDs, but a collapsing circuit detonator is what is often being replicated when the overweight, heavily perspiring Bomb Disposal operator is portrayed as cutting the wrong wire and getting covered in corn syrup. (yes, Die Hard With A Vengeance, I'm looking at you!)
We have an expert great and you've mentioned a film where I had an idea how to disable those bombs easily smile

They are a binary liquid totally safe until mixed yet they spend ages trying to disarm the electronics. Just take off a pipe or drill a hole in one tank. Nothing to mix totally safe.

Would I be strawberry jam all over the room smile also speed on the elevator detonators clearing in explosive wh not just pull them out of explosive only little booms no big booms.

Not sure I'd make bomb disposal guy lol

yellowjack

17,080 posts

167 months

Sunday 12th June 2016
quotequote all
Pesty said:
We have an expert great and you've mentioned a film where I had an idea how to disable those bombs easily smile

They are a binary liquid totally safe until mixed yet they spend ages trying to disarm the electronics. Just take off a pipe or drill a hole in one tank. Nothing to mix totally safe.

Would I be strawberry jam all over the room smile also speed on the elevator detonators clearing in explosive wh not just pull them out of explosive only little booms no big booms.

Not sure I'd make bomb disposal guy lol
I've never been a 'High Threat' EOD operator, despite serving seven years with an EOD unit (in a 'Support to UK EOD Operations' role). But try a watch of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miPpUrK6lwQ

...I was in post around the time that Capt Kennedy was at RE EOD too (He's the most thoroughly nice chap, by the way). In this clip he talks about an operation for which he was awarded the QGM. In this case there's an obvious command wire which he does cut, and yes, as per your point, he does pull the detonator out of the artillery round that's the 'meat' of the IED. After all of that, the risk of anti-handling devices under/around the shell is such that a PE4 charge is placed alongside the IEDs and they are destroyed in a 'controlled' manner.

The 'best outcome' for IED operations is neutralisation followed by recovery intact. They are then studied and forensic evidence collected for possible identification and prosecution of the bomb maker(s). It also allows the development of new counter-IED techniques direct from a real life, current threat device. In this case, his patrol was in danger of losing the compound to insurgents, so focus was switched to destroying the devices in order to deny their re-use by enemy combatants, prior to extracting by helicopter.

SickAsAParrot

304 posts

113 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
The big room full of avionics directly under the cockpit in Snakes on a Plane.

Morningside

24,110 posts

230 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
computers.
Being used to move the plot on.
Making bleeping noises when a key is pressed and data appearing slower than a dialup connection.

But the most annoying of all. Why is it that all futuristic computers/phones have transparent screens? It would be a bloody nightmare trying to read on of these screens when you could see everything behind it.

944fan

4,962 posts

186 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
DervVW said:
Cleaner vaccuming the server hall in spooks
Off topic but here we go. Years ago I worked for the police in IT. We were getting complaints that every night a service was going down for 15 minutes. It wasn't critical but annoying. We installed some monitoring tools on the server and left it. Sure enough similar time every night the service was shutting down. We tracked it down to the server losing power. We couldn't explaining it so two people decided to stay late and sit in the server room. About 9:30 they are sat there and the cleaner wanders in with her hoover. Proceeds to un plug the server and plug in her hoover. Apparently she had been told that it was ok and had been doing it every night.

Cue lots of signs going up and covers for the plug socket.

This was a crappy old server room not like the super rack mount jobs these days and the server just looked like a desktop pc on top of a workstand.

ashley95

77 posts

116 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
When actors are on the phone... yet you can clearly see the device is on the lock/home screen

ukbabz

1,549 posts

127 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
Anything to do with Freefall / skydiving. Things such as being able to hold onto someone deploying at terminal (v. unlikely), talking to each other, freefall lasting minutes at a time... it's never right!

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

187 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
Morningside said:
computers...

Making bleeping noises when a key is pressed...
Does anyone here have the misfortune to be exposed to NCIS? My OH watches it as a daily religious duty.

Every single computer bleeps every time anyone touches it. Drives me to despair.

Along with everything else about that damn franchise

glazbagun

14,280 posts

198 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
Something that affects series much more than films, but since I've already mentions Prometheus I'll bring it up- plot threads/arcs that go nowhere and were never intended to go anywhere.

It happens in books, too- it's easy to put someone in peril, leave a repeating Symbol, hint at some great depth to a character or plot (which means you get the cheque signed for another series as people expect it to go somewhere), but a story needs resolution or it's a rubbsh story. You can perhaps (but not really) get away with it in something like No Country for Old Men as it's sort of the point, but more often than not it just wastes all of the tension you've built up and the investment people have put into your film/show.

motorizer

1,498 posts

172 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
Mr Snrub said:
People being thrown clear by explosions, or just coolly walking away. I'm not munitions expert but I doubt you'd be able to do that after the heat and pressure wave scrambles your internal organs. Still, does give me an excuse to post a link to this song


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo
Outrunning an explosion, usually along a tunnel or pipeline, just leaping out of the end a split second before the blast arrives.

monamimate

838 posts

143 months

Monday 13th June 2016
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This, from Mission Impossible



Bike magically swaps between road and knobbly tyres several times (without passing by Tyrefit)...

Skii

1,630 posts

192 months

Monday 13th June 2016
quotequote all
Pretty much all movie fight scenes, baddie always throws the good guy around, rather than hit him. Also being struck by a golf club in a movie only temporarily stuns the opponent.