The James Bond Thread
Discussion
Evercross said:
Amazon now own the rights to James Bond as a result of their acquisition of MGM.
Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
About half way through watching NTTD it felt like a deliberate attempt to burn the franchise to the ground, and salt the earth to make sure it stays dead.Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
SpudLink said:
Evercross said:
Amazon now own the rights to James Bond as a result of their acquisition of MGM.
Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
About half way through watching NTTD it felt like a deliberate attempt to burn the franchise to the ground, and salt the earth to make sure it stays dead.Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
tangerine_sedge said:
SpudLink said:
Evercross said:
Amazon now own the rights to James Bond as a result of their acquisition of MGM.
Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
About half way through watching NTTD it felt like a deliberate attempt to burn the franchise to the ground, and salt the earth to make sure it stays dead.Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
I genuinely believe that EON are aware that anything Amazon financed will come with DEI and ESG scoring strings attached, making it almost impossible to make another 'proper' Bond movie. NTTD walked the line between the tried-and-tested formula and the diversity and equity box-ticking but with a very symbolic 'that's the first and last time we do that' plotline and ending.
I agree with Spudlink.
Evercross said:
tangerine_sedge said:
SpudLink said:
Evercross said:
Amazon now own the rights to James Bond as a result of their acquisition of MGM.
Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
About half way through watching NTTD it felt like a deliberate attempt to burn the franchise to the ground, and salt the earth to make sure it stays dead.Amazon Buys MGM, Studio Behind James Bond, for $8.45 Billion
There's a school of thought that EON were happy to crash Bond into the ground knowing their share of this payday was coming anyway.
I genuinely believe that EON are aware that anything Amazon financed will come with DEI and ESG scoring strings attached, making it almost impossible to make another 'proper' Bond movie. NTTD walked the line between the tried-and-tested formula and the diversity and equity box-ticking but with a very symbolic 'that's the first and last time we do that' plotline and ending.
I agree with Spudlink.
All Bond films are "off their time" to varying extents and a reflection of the world around them, that's no bad thing.
C5_Steve said:
Just for balance, I couldn't disagree more. NTTD was a great ending to the Craig-era films. It's the first time we'd had a consistent plot thread throughout the films which allowed us to see the character grow and evolve throughout his time in the role. As a stand-alone film, it doesn't work as well as the others becasue it requires you to have seen the others to understand the impact so I appreciate that it's very different to a lot of what's come before it. NTTD is the only Bond film that ever really contained any real stakes or consequence (aside from OHMSS and it's telling how well received that was at the time) and I'm glad we're given something different to close out that period and allow them to start afresh.
I am not entirely sure what you are 'disagreeing' with. No one is saying NTTD was a bad film, and you agree with the point that it was very much an ending.As I said - EON seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to commence production on 'Bond 26', but Broccoli and Wilson have made it quite clear what they are not prepared to turn Bond into. NTTD absolutely drew a line under everything that went before in a way that worked dramatically.
As a massive fan I am resigned to and entirely comfortable with the fact that Bond as we know it is over and I think that was entirely the intention. All good things have to come to an end and I could only see the franchise being ruined in the pursuit of a 'modern audience', in the same way corporate executives have ruined other franchises that were previously the vision of a few people.
EON had no control over Amazon's acquisition of MGM, but they absolutely had control over the way they've 'parked' Bond. Considering how Amazon crapped over the Tolkien legacy with the truly awful Rings of Power I'd be happy if they left Bond well alone.
Evercross said:
I am not entirely sure what you are 'disagreeing' with. No one is saying NTTD was a bad film, and you agree with the point that it was very much an ending.
As I said - EON seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to commence production on 'Bond 26', but Broccoli and Wilson have made it quite clear what they are not prepared to turn Bond into. NTTD absolutely drew a line under everything that went before in a way that worked dramatically.
As a massive fan I am resigned to and entirely comfortable with the fact that Bond as we know it is over and I think that was entirely the intention. All good things have to come to an end and I could only see the franchise being ruined in the pursuit of a 'modern audience', in the same way corporate executives have ruined other franchises that were previously the vision of a few people.
EON had no control over Amazon's acquisition of MGM, but they absolutely had control over the way they've 'parked' Bond. Considering how Amazon crapped over the Tolkien legacy with the truly awful Rings of Power I'd be happy if they left Bond well alone.
Ah apologies if not clear, I disagreed with your "About half way through watching NTTD it felt like a deliberate attempt to burn the franchise to the ground, and salt the earth to make sure it stays dead." comment which was within the quoted posts (it was your comment wasn't it?). As I said - EON seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to commence production on 'Bond 26', but Broccoli and Wilson have made it quite clear what they are not prepared to turn Bond into. NTTD absolutely drew a line under everything that went before in a way that worked dramatically.
As a massive fan I am resigned to and entirely comfortable with the fact that Bond as we know it is over and I think that was entirely the intention. All good things have to come to an end and I could only see the franchise being ruined in the pursuit of a 'modern audience', in the same way corporate executives have ruined other franchises that were previously the vision of a few people.
EON had no control over Amazon's acquisition of MGM, but they absolutely had control over the way they've 'parked' Bond. Considering how Amazon crapped over the Tolkien legacy with the truly awful Rings of Power I'd be happy if they left Bond well alone.
I read it as a criticism of the film rather than drawing a line under the end of the era that I think you intended it to mean.
C5_Steve said:
It's the first time we'd had a consistent plot thread throughout the films
Except you didn't know there was a thread through the films until Spectre - and I bet nor did the producers and scriptwriters either until suddenly 'It was all me James'.Suddenly deciding all the antagonists from the first three Craig films were part of Spectre was nonsensical. Had there been 'Easter eggs' or clues Spectre was involved in the first three films maybe I'd buy it but otherwise not a chance, a plot distraction dreamt up for Spectre.
And talking of Spectre, all that legal argy bargy for years with McClorys estate over the Spectre and Blofeld rights blown and used up (i.e Blofeld dead) in one and a bit films. Blofeld and Spectre could have gone on for years (reboots apart).
Dashnine said:
C5_Steve said:
It's the first time we'd had a consistent plot thread throughout the films
Except you didn't know there was a thread through the films until Spectre - and I bet nor did the producers and scriptwriters either until suddenly 'It was all me James'.Suddenly deciding all the antagonists from the first three Craig films were part of Spectre was nonsensical. Had there been 'Easter eggs' or clues Spectre was involved in the first three films maybe I'd buy it but otherwise not a chance, a plot distraction dreamt up for Spectre.
And talking of Spectre, all that legal argy bargy for years with McClorys estate over the Spectre and Blofeld rights blown and used up (i.e Blofeld dead) in one and a bit films. Blofeld and Spectre could have gone on for years (reboots apart).
C5_Steve said:
Agreed on the Spectre element but you did have Bond's character development and his loss of Vesper at the start still looming large through all of them.
Can't help thinking that was clumsily engineered in. The about-turn from Quantum to Spectre is the big elephant-in-the-room neon sign that they were making it up as they were going along rather than having a plan.C5_Steve said:
Evercross said:
I am not entirely sure what you are 'disagreeing' with. No one is saying NTTD was a bad film, and you agree with the point that it was very much an ending.
As I said - EON seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to commence production on 'Bond 26', but Broccoli and Wilson have made it quite clear what they are not prepared to turn Bond into. NTTD absolutely drew a line under everything that went before in a way that worked dramatically.
As a massive fan I am resigned to and entirely comfortable with the fact that Bond as we know it is over and I think that was entirely the intention. All good things have to come to an end and I could only see the franchise being ruined in the pursuit of a 'modern audience', in the same way corporate executives have ruined other franchises that were previously the vision of a few people.
EON had no control over Amazon's acquisition of MGM, but they absolutely had control over the way they've 'parked' Bond. Considering how Amazon crapped over the Tolkien legacy with the truly awful Rings of Power I'd be happy if they left Bond well alone.
Ah apologies if not clear, I disagreed with your "About half way through watching NTTD it felt like a deliberate attempt to burn the franchise to the ground, and salt the earth to make sure it stays dead." comment which was within the quoted posts (it was your comment wasn't it?). As I said - EON seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to commence production on 'Bond 26', but Broccoli and Wilson have made it quite clear what they are not prepared to turn Bond into. NTTD absolutely drew a line under everything that went before in a way that worked dramatically.
As a massive fan I am resigned to and entirely comfortable with the fact that Bond as we know it is over and I think that was entirely the intention. All good things have to come to an end and I could only see the franchise being ruined in the pursuit of a 'modern audience', in the same way corporate executives have ruined other franchises that were previously the vision of a few people.
EON had no control over Amazon's acquisition of MGM, but they absolutely had control over the way they've 'parked' Bond. Considering how Amazon crapped over the Tolkien legacy with the truly awful Rings of Power I'd be happy if they left Bond well alone.
I read it as a criticism of the film rather than drawing a line under the end of the era that I think you intended it to mean.
It was when the killed Blofeld, all of Spectre, and Felix Leiter. It was obvious they were clearing the board, and I could see they were going to kill Bond himself.
They used "All The Time In the World" at the beginning letting you know there would be a meaningful death. Because we’d already lost Vesper (a few films earlier, but still fresh in the mind of Bond and the audience), the only really meaningful death would be Bond.
It was a real statement that “it’s all over”.
SpudLink said:
That was my comment.
It was when the killed Blofeld, all of Spectre, and Felix Leiter. It was obvious they were clearing the board, and I could see they were going to kill Bond himself.
They used "All The Time In the World" at the beginning letting you know there would be a meaningful death. Because we’d already lost Vesper (a few films earlier, but still fresh in the mind of Bond and the audience), the only really meaningful death would be Bond.
It was a real statement that “it’s all over”.
Ah sorry, I misquoted. It was when the killed Blofeld, all of Spectre, and Felix Leiter. It was obvious they were clearing the board, and I could see they were going to kill Bond himself.
They used "All The Time In the World" at the beginning letting you know there would be a meaningful death. Because we’d already lost Vesper (a few films earlier, but still fresh in the mind of Bond and the audience), the only really meaningful death would be Bond.
It was a real statement that “it’s all over”.
SpudLink said:
It was when the killed Blofeld, all of Spectre, and Felix Leiter. It was obvious they were clearing the board, and I could see they were going to kill Bond himself.
They used "All The Time In the World" at the beginning letting you know there would be a meaningful death. Because we’d already lost Vesper (a few films earlier, but still fresh in the mind of Bond and the audience), the only really meaningful death would be Bond.
It was a real statement that “it’s all over”.
I agree entirely. It was a complete bonfire of the IP and a clean break, not just for Craig but for EON's vision of Bond (while being able to say "you wanted a female, diverse 007 and we gave you exactly that, oh and we made the cold, calculating Bond into a sympathetic character too, plus he got a knock-back from a bad-ass femme fatale. Happy now? Good, now f'k off.")They used "All The Time In the World" at the beginning letting you know there would be a meaningful death. Because we’d already lost Vesper (a few films earlier, but still fresh in the mind of Bond and the audience), the only really meaningful death would be Bond.
It was a real statement that “it’s all over”.
Evercross said:
SpudLink said:
It was when the killed Blofeld, all of Spectre, and Felix Leiter. It was obvious they were clearing the board, and I could see they were going to kill Bond himself.
They used "All The Time In the World" at the beginning letting you know there would be a meaningful death. Because we’d already lost Vesper (a few films earlier, but still fresh in the mind of Bond and the audience), the only really meaningful death would be Bond.
It was a real statement that “it’s all over”.
I agree entirely. It was a complete bonfire of the IP and a clean break, not just for Craig but for EON's vision of Bond (while being able to say "you wanted a female, diverse 007 and we gave you exactly that, oh and we made the cold, calculating Bond into a sympathetic character too, plus he got a knock-back from a bad-ass femme fatale. Happy now? Good, now f'k off.")They used "All The Time In the World" at the beginning letting you know there would be a meaningful death. Because we’d already lost Vesper (a few films earlier, but still fresh in the mind of Bond and the audience), the only really meaningful death would be Bond.
It was a real statement that “it’s all over”.
On a separate note I think he should have left after Skyfall. I am just watching The Spy Who Loved Me and it is easily Sir Rog's best and his third. Likewise Sean Connery's Goldfinger is his best. Obviously Captain Dullard Dalton only did two so moving onto Timothy Dalton he had done his best his third.
3 and no more
anonymoususer said:
Personally I think they gave too much control to the actor.
That was my original take, but in retrospect given the continued attention Bond was getting regarding 'misogyny' and the social pressures to change the basic nature of the character, plus the impending transfer of ownership of the studio, they had nothing to lose (that they weren't already losing anyway) by letting Craig go nuts with his swansong, especially as he wasn't overly keen on immediately coming back after Spectre. They probably wouldn't have got that final film in just before the takeover had they not tempted Craig back with the offer of some creative freedom as a producer.To me it was just a further sign that EON were closing the book on their involvement, going out with (metaphorically) all guns blazing and both middle-fingers raised to the naysayers.
Edited by Evercross on Thursday 7th March 14:04
Evercross said:
Can't help thinking that was clumsily engineered in. The about-turn from Quantum to Spectre is the big elephant-in-the-room neon sign that they were making it up as they were going along rather than having a plan.
The original Star Wars trilogy is probably up there with the most successful trilogies of all time and none of the Skywalker/Darth Vader redemption story line existed when Star Wars was released. I mention this only as an example that sometimes a story can be created if there are enough pieces to string it together. I think they did a good job of making the Craig bond have a real arc, even if that wasn't always the intention when they first started.
With the pandemic, it shouldn't be surprising there is a longer wait between Craig and the next Bond.
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