Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
Discussion
ICallCustard said:
Funk said:
Bernard was debriefing Dolores in the room under the CitW!
That is a great spot !Or was it simply a scenario the producers thought no-one would notice? I find that hard to believe given the forensic levels of inspection going on.
Watchman said:
So, was his debriefing of Delores during a time after he killed Theresa, or did he get to that room via other means (so he didn't know about the CitW), or was there some memory manipulation of Bernard going on?
Or was it simply a scenario the producers thought no-one would notice? I find that hard to believe given the forensic levels of inspection going on.
The obvious(-ish) answer is that the Delores scenes aren't with 'Bernard' at all but are with Arnold and predate the original incident in the park when this room was still in its original use. I.e. they're parts of a different timeline.Or was it simply a scenario the producers thought no-one would notice? I find that hard to believe given the forensic levels of inspection going on.
Jonesy23 said:
Watchman said:
So, was his debriefing of Delores during a time after he killed Theresa, or did he get to that room via other means (so he didn't know about the CitW), or was there some memory manipulation of Bernard going on?
Or was it simply a scenario the producers thought no-one would notice? I find that hard to believe given the forensic levels of inspection going on.
The obvious(-ish) answer is that the Delores scenes aren't with 'Bernard' at all but are with Arnold and predate the original incident in the park when this room was still in its original use. I.e. they're parts of a different timeline.Or was it simply a scenario the producers thought no-one would notice? I find that hard to believe given the forensic levels of inspection going on.
Can you recall what Arnold (in this context) was talking to her about? Was there anything about her recent experiences that might debunk this theory (I like this theory so I hope not).
interesting episode 4 dolores talks to Bernard/Arnold about the maze, these seems pertinent Arnold being Bernard, as Bernard would not about the maze as it was ingrained into the park from the beginning.
i think the maze only works with older hosts.
i think the maze only works with older hosts.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Wednesday 16th November 08:29
Yes, that's got to be it.
Also, MiB must be dying. When they drank together in the saloon, and MiB was trying to explain his wanting to embellish Ford's stories with a real villain, Ford said he lacked the imagination for someone like him (MiB) but that "the urgency doesn't quite fit the character. A certain anxiety". MiB gave a pained smile. I reckon he's got limited time left.
Then, the point of the knife scene wasn't that Teddy was programmed to protect Ford (or that Ford can control other hosts with a thought because he's also a host) but that MiB knows Ford is a host - he asked what he'd find if he cut Ford open. I think that's a reference to the previous scene where MiB gave Laurence's blood to Teddy and mentioned (to Teddy) how he'd opened one of the hosts up years ago when they were mechanical, whereas today they are more human (and cheaply made because of that).
MiB knows Ford is a host but isn't sure whether he's an original or a more recent one. I'm not sure why though... unless "upgrades" where possible throughout the hosts' lives.
Also, MiB must be dying. When they drank together in the saloon, and MiB was trying to explain his wanting to embellish Ford's stories with a real villain, Ford said he lacked the imagination for someone like him (MiB) but that "the urgency doesn't quite fit the character. A certain anxiety". MiB gave a pained smile. I reckon he's got limited time left.
Then, the point of the knife scene wasn't that Teddy was programmed to protect Ford (or that Ford can control other hosts with a thought because he's also a host) but that MiB knows Ford is a host - he asked what he'd find if he cut Ford open. I think that's a reference to the previous scene where MiB gave Laurence's blood to Teddy and mentioned (to Teddy) how he'd opened one of the hosts up years ago when they were mechanical, whereas today they are more human (and cheaply made because of that).
MiB knows Ford is a host but isn't sure whether he's an original or a more recent one. I'm not sure why though... unless "upgrades" where possible throughout the hosts' lives.
Edited by Watchman on Wednesday 16th November 15:41
I'm off work this week, puppy-sitting (another story). I'm wasting my time re-watching this series. Things I've noted (prompted by things I've read) that reinforce the dual timeline theory include:
1. William and Logan never see Maeve. They only see Clementine. Maeve has only been the madam for just over a year.
2. Everyone has seen the shift in perspectives around Delores that remove or include William.
3. Laurence's story makes more sense if he started as El Lazo (or whatever he's called) and progresses towards the loser than MiB finds hanging (although MiB has met Laurence before).
4. All the scenes below the CitW now make more sense if you consider Bernard in that timeframe was Arnold.
5. Logo changes are consistent if you consider William is in the past.
6. Teddy seems to be a guide who always starts his loop in the train. He's not there for William so he must have been a recent introduction or change.
7. I can't be certain but I think the condensed milk can logo is different between Teddy picking it up and William picking it up.
Inconsistency: Delores in the barn with the man when she remembers being there with MiB. She kills the man and runs out of the barn where she meets William... assuming the end of her running away and the start of her meeting with William are actually connected.
Wild speculation (that I don't really believe)... William is Ford and Logan is MiB. Honestly, it doesn't make sense but William is *similar* (ish) in appearance to Ford. An Logan is dressed in black. And they are looking to buy the park or invest in it. Maybe they meet Arnold and clash with him. And MiB is rich, which William and Logan would need to be to invest in the park.
I don't believe it but I like speculating.
1. William and Logan never see Maeve. They only see Clementine. Maeve has only been the madam for just over a year.
2. Everyone has seen the shift in perspectives around Delores that remove or include William.
3. Laurence's story makes more sense if he started as El Lazo (or whatever he's called) and progresses towards the loser than MiB finds hanging (although MiB has met Laurence before).
4. All the scenes below the CitW now make more sense if you consider Bernard in that timeframe was Arnold.
5. Logo changes are consistent if you consider William is in the past.
6. Teddy seems to be a guide who always starts his loop in the train. He's not there for William so he must have been a recent introduction or change.
7. I can't be certain but I think the condensed milk can logo is different between Teddy picking it up and William picking it up.
Inconsistency: Delores in the barn with the man when she remembers being there with MiB. She kills the man and runs out of the barn where she meets William... assuming the end of her running away and the start of her meeting with William are actually connected.
Wild speculation (that I don't really believe)... William is Ford and Logan is MiB. Honestly, it doesn't make sense but William is *similar* (ish) in appearance to Ford. An Logan is dressed in black. And they are looking to buy the park or invest in it. Maybe they meet Arnold and clash with him. And MiB is rich, which William and Logan would need to be to invest in the park.
I don't believe it but I like speculating.
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