Alien Covenant Prologue: The Last Supper
Discussion
Mr Snrub said:
If something making back 3 times its budget is a flop than Hollywood is screwed. Being the 234th highest grossing film of all time sounds like a pretty decent success to me
Like I said above - I didn't say it was a flop, just pointing out that the box office takings vs the production budget don't tell the whole story. Once you factor in the cinema's cut and the marketing budget - the profit (if there even was one in this case) seems rather lower than implied.There are movies that have performed to a similar level but which were considered relative failures (certainly not good enough to guarantee a sequel)
Tron legacy (237 in the list) had a similar production budget, much lower marketing budget ($50 million) and took a similar amount at the box office as Prometheus did - yet was widely considered a flop and it's sequel was cancelled.
The Mummy - Tomb of the Dragon Emperor was a similar story. Along with the ill conceived "Scorpion King" movie essentially killed off the existing Mummy Franchise.
Had Prometheus been a standalone film and not part of the Alien universe - I suspect this sequel would have been rather less certain.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 25th February 16:16
Moonhawk said:
Mr Snrub said:
If something making back 3 times its budget is a flop than Hollywood is screwed. Being the 234th highest grossing film of all time sounds like a pretty decent success to me
Tron legacy (237 in the list) had a similar production budget, much lower marketing budget ($50 million) and took a similar amount at the box office as Prometheus did - yet was widely considered a flop and it's sequel was cancelled.The Mummy - Tomb of the Dragon Emperor was a similar story. Along with the ill conceived "Scorpion King" movie essentially killed off the existing Mummy Franchise.
Had Prometheus been a standalone film and not part of the Alien universe - I suspect this sequel would have been rather less certain.
wevster said:
To be fair they will struggle to get away from the "monster eating people" formula with aliens, would you be happier if they changed things up and they became friends instead? Perhaps turned it into a romance movie?
judas said:
It'll be fun watching that lot get eviscerated. Is that the idea?Mansells Tash said:
wevster said:
To be fair they will struggle to get away from the "monster eating people" formula with aliens, would you be happier if they changed things up and they became friends instead? Perhaps turned it into a romance movie?Small crew on a ship - Alien
Colonisation of a planet - broaching into Aliens
Strong female lead - all of them
But, then as you say there is only so much you can do within the arc of the story I guess.
All these big franchises are just ruined by sci-fi nerds getting their hooks into them. Alien, Terminator, Star Wars and now Blade Runner.
Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be s
t and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be? 
Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be s
t and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be? Disastrous said:
All these big franchises are just ruined by sci-fi nerds getting their hooks into them. Alien, Terminator, Star Wars and now Blade Runner.
Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be st and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be?
One of the stars explains it Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be s
t and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be? 
Disastrous said:
All these big franchises are just ruined by sci-fi nerds getting their hooks into them. Alien, Terminator, Star Wars and now Blade Runner.
Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be st and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be?
Good post.Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be s
t and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be? People won't let things be because they think a. new audience, and b. money. The endless discussions to the tiniest detail about the movies are furthered by geeks who before the advent of the internet would be down the shed at the bottom of the garden painting redcoats and re-enacting some battle from the Peninsula War in its minutiae. Or something.
Disastrous said:
All these big franchises are just ruined by sci-fi nerds getting their hooks into them. Alien, Terminator, Star Wars and now Blade Runner.
Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be st and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be?
Completely agree, the Bladrunner 2 sequel is never ever going to live up to the originalPretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be s
t and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be? popeyewhite said:
Good post.
People won't let things be because they think a. new audience, and b. money. The endless discussions to the tiniest detail about the movies are furthered by geeks who before the advent of the internet would be down the shed at the bottom of the garden painting redcoats and re-enacting some battle from the Peninsula War in its minutiae. Or something.
I think the word you're looking for is 'Warhammer'People won't let things be because they think a. new audience, and b. money. The endless discussions to the tiniest detail about the movies are furthered by geeks who before the advent of the internet would be down the shed at the bottom of the garden painting redcoats and re-enacting some battle from the Peninsula War in its minutiae. Or something.
Disastrous said:
All these big franchises are just ruined by sci-fi nerds getting their hooks into them. Alien, Terminator, Star Wars and now Blade Runner.
Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be st and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be?
Couldn't agree more. Trying to explain the Space Jockey mystery kills the mystique and dilutes the whole thing. The magic of Alien was partly down to that fascinatingly scary derelict ship, now they're trying to unravel one of the great unexplained and sinister movie secrets. Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be s
t and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be? ClockworkCupcake said:
Disastrous said:
... sci-fi nerds ...
... Internet virgins ...
And not forgetting opinionated Glaswegian w... Internet virgins ...
kers on car-related internet forums. 
I'm not from Glasgow btw, if that was meant as a dig
Skii said:
Disastrous said:
All these big franchises are just ruined by sci-fi nerds getting their hooks into them. Alien, Terminator, Star Wars and now Blade Runner.
Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be st and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be?
Couldn't agree more. Trying to explain the Space Jockey mystery kills the mystique and dilutes the whole thing. The magic of Alien was partly down to that fascinatingly scary derelict ship, now they're trying to unravel one of the great unexplained and sinister movie secrets. Pretty much none of thes the stand up to much critical analysis - the originals, and often the first sequels, work because they depict a fascinating alien universe and can throw up loads of questions without answering them (usually because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead).
Then the Internet virgins start speculating about the sequels with chat like "erm, actually I think you'll find that Weyland Yutani's Q3 financials for that year wouldn't have allowed them to send a team to get them back..." or whatever, and the filmmaker gets tied up in knots, trying to tell a story whilst appease baying hordes who care about what model of minimun was available that year.
It's never as good once you explain it. Alien was frightening because as viewers we felt like we were on the very edge of a vast, unknown terror. Aliens worked because it was a class action film where we got to see cool guns blasting bad aliens. Alien 3 I quite liked because it was pretty oddball but by the 4th, it had got too mired in it's own mythology. We'd established prison planets, space pirates, etc etc and we're now experimenting on Aliens so the excitement and terror has long departed.
Bottom line - nobody needs to know who the Space jockeys were. Finding out will inevitably disappoint as it will never be as exciting as the possibilities your 14 year old mind conjured up when you managed to watch Alien at your mate's house one night. Knowing where the xenomorphs came from is irrelevant. It just makes them less scary.
It will be s
t and so will Blade Runner 2. Why can't people just let things be? I don't think you need to explain everything, or remove the mystique. But there is nothing wrong the adding a richness, depth, and self-consistency to a film to satisfy some your audience. In fact, that same audience don't *want* to be spoon fed reasons, they are just asking for some more self-consistency and for the film not to provoke the reaction "why would anyone DO that???"
And if the above gets forums buzzing (in a good way) then that can only increase the bottom line as people will then buy the BD, and see sequels, and buy into merchandising, etc.
And if the above gets forums buzzing (in a good way) then that can only increase the bottom line as people will then buy the BD, and see sequels, and buy into merchandising, etc.
Mr Snrub said:
I would agree that explaining the mystery behind things removes the fear factor, but it's hardly a new thing. Michael Myers or Freddy Kruger were far scarier when they were just killers coming after you, but they felt forced to give them backstories in the sequels. But they didn't make them to placate fan theories, those people alone wouldn't bring in enough money to make the film profitable, they make them because they see a chance to make more money
I think this is true but internet speculation is now so rife that bad chat online can ruin your film before it's even released. So the filmmakers get caught up in trying to appease the fanbois pre-release and they're done before they've even started.Aliens is excellent but in all honesty, is have been happy if they'd stopped after Alien. It didn't need a sequel.
the problem for me, and this applies to most sequels or prequels, is that they try and make it all fit into one grand universe instead of something fresh. Like they always shoehorn W-Y and their attempts to control the xenos in. Why not just make something that can stand alone? Like having the Predator in feudal Japan, or aliens vs vikings?
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