Mutiny channel 4

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jammy-git

29,776 posts

211 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Melman Giraffe said:
nicanary said:
Ant up to his old tricks, twisting things to suit himself. If anyone thinks Conrad is right AND YOU WANT HIM AS NEW CAPTAIN, put your hands up. Conrad was proposing no such thing. The skipper is a conniving little st.
No he is a strong leader and that's what leaders do.
Quite. I'm not sure why Conrad couldn't have spoke to Any privately about rowing and settled the idea without potentially dividing the crew at a really crucial time. I suspect that's what Ant was more pissed off about.

nicanary

9,751 posts

145 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Melman Giraffe said:
nicanary said:
Ant up to his old tricks, twisting things to suit himself. If anyone thinks Conrad is right AND YOU WANT HIM AS NEW CAPTAIN, put your hands up. Conrad was proposing no such thing. The skipper is a conniving little st.
No he is a strong leader and that's what leaders do.
I'm glad I'm a loner. Strikes me that he's a bit of a bully, but of course that's maybe what the special forces make a man. I don't like self-important people. There was a time not that long ago when special forces remained anonymous, having their faces blurred in public photos, no names or addresses, even after retirement. I think Andy McNab may have started the rot. I'm surprised the MOD softened their stance, but I suppose it gives people the chance to forge a career after service, using their skills to advantage.

Still don't like the guy.

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
A really good series, they all did very well indeed, apart from the whinging, childish scouser.

Ant had a difficult job and he did it really well.


johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
If the wind had not come they would have (in real life) died. They didn't give the rowing idea enough thought and it seemed to me that because Ant wasn't involved he didn't like it. So we will never know.
The Doctor and the others looked visibly thinner to the point of being seriously ill and it at least proves they did the time on the boat.

Biker 1

7,694 posts

118 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
If the wind had not come they would have (in real life) died. They didn't give the rowing idea enough thought and it seemed to me that because Ant wasn't involved he didn't like it. So we will never know.
The Doctor and the others looked visibly thinner to the point of being seriously ill and it at least proves they did the time on the boat.
yes Shame about the water situation though. Could they have planned it better??

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Biker 1 said:
yes Shame about the water situation though. Could they have planned it better??
yes, if they had a supply of water and faced such a long trip they should have over stocked poor planning.
Having said all of that it is not a trip I would have volunteered for.

warp9

1,583 posts

196 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
If the wind had not come they would have (in real life) died. They didn't give the rowing idea enough thought and it seemed to me that because Ant wasn't involved he didn't like it. So we will never know.
The Doctor and the others looked visibly thinner to the point of being seriously ill and it at least proves they did the time on the boat.
Politics aside, wouldn't rowing 5 hours a day to achieve at max a fairly paltry 50 miles have dehydrated them even more, thus hastened 'the end'?

jammy-git

29,776 posts

211 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
warp9 said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
If the wind had not come they would have (in real life) died. They didn't give the rowing idea enough thought and it seemed to me that because Ant wasn't involved he didn't like it. So we will never know.
The Doctor and the others looked visibly thinner to the point of being seriously ill and it at least proves they did the time on the boat.
Politics aside, wouldn't rowing 5 hours a day to achieve at max a fairly paltry 50 miles have dehydrated them even more, thus hastened 'the end'?
Yes.

K12beano

20,854 posts

274 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
warp9 said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
If the wind had not come they would have (in real life) died. They didn't give the rowing idea enough thought and it seemed to me that because Ant wasn't involved he didn't like it. So we will never know.
The Doctor and the others looked visibly thinner to the point of being seriously ill and it at least proves they did the time on the boat.
Politics aside, wouldn't rowing 5 hours a day to achieve at max a fairly paltry 50 miles have dehydrated them even more, thus hastened 'the end'?
Yes.
It's all very well on a racing yacht with plentiful (or at least sufficient) supplies to say "OK get rowing, Lads" yes

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
K12beano said:
jammy-git said:
warp9 said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
If the wind had not come they would have (in real life) died. They didn't give the rowing idea enough thought and it seemed to me that because Ant wasn't involved he didn't like it. So we will never know.
The Doctor and the others looked visibly thinner to the point of being seriously ill and it at least proves they did the time on the boat.
Politics aside, wouldn't rowing 5 hours a day to achieve at max a fairly paltry 50 miles have dehydrated them even more, thus hastened 'the end'?
Yes.
It's all very well on a racing yacht with plentiful (or at least sufficient) supplies to say "OK get rowing, Lads" yes
Plus they're running on 400 calories a day, five hours of rowing would have pushed them into a serious deficit.

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Biker 1 said:
yes Shame about the water situation though. Could they have planned it better??
I thought they were only using water they could get themselves and store on the boat hence the rationing, you can't "plan" the wind not being there.



FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
Melman Giraffe said:
nicanary said:
Ant up to his old tricks, twisting things to suit himself. If anyone thinks Conrad is right AND YOU WANT HIM AS NEW CAPTAIN, put your hands up. Conrad was proposing no such thing. The skipper is a conniving little st.
No he is a strong leader and that's what leaders do.
Quite. I'm not sure why Conrad couldn't have spoke to Any privately about rowing and settled the idea without potentially dividing the crew at a really crucial time. I suspect that's what Ant was more pissed off about.
Let's not forget the title of the series is, in fact, Mutiny. Seemed to fit in well.

nicanary

9,751 posts

145 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
FiF said:
jammy-git said:
Melman Giraffe said:
nicanary said:
Ant up to his old tricks, twisting things to suit himself. If anyone thinks Conrad is right AND YOU WANT HIM AS NEW CAPTAIN, put your hands up. Conrad was proposing no such thing. The skipper is a conniving little st.
No he is a strong leader and that's what leaders do.
Quite. I'm not sure why Conrad couldn't have spoke to Any privately about rowing and settled the idea without potentially dividing the crew at a really crucial time. I suspect that's what Ant was more pissed off about.
Let's not forget the title of the series is, in fact, Mutiny. Seemed to fit in well.
yes Good point. At least Ant didn't offer lashing and keel-hauling.

(My first reaction when they were in the doldrums was "row", but in hindsight of course it would have been a stupid idea. Would have put them in serious medical jeopardy. However, it might have given them purpose, something to keep them occupied.)

jinkster

2,235 posts

155 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Watched the programme last night - all of it!

That scouser should have been keelhauled or at least thrown off with a rope tied around his leg when he was asleeping and should be awake.

Sitting it out vs Rowing well....I could see Ants point but as you were screwed anyway (exhaustion vs running out of water), rowing could have been morale boosting.

Ants management style vs Conrad - Ant is military and what the captain says goes and not open to suggestion unlike some other professions that offer a CRM (crew resource management) course.

All in all the programme was very good.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
warp9 said:
Politics aside, wouldn't rowing 5 hours a day to achieve at max a fairly paltry 50 miles have dehydrated them even more, thus hastened 'the end'?
but they could have picked up some wind after a couple of hours rowing and as it was flat calm even gentle rowing could have been an option. This guy is an expert in finding wind and they only survived because they where given water. Fairly sure it was done for dramatic effect.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
warp9 said:
Politics aside, wouldn't rowing 5 hours a day to achieve at max a fairly paltry 50 miles have dehydrated them even more, thus hastened 'the end'?
but they could have picked up some wind after a couple of hours rowing and as it was flat calm even gentle rowing could have been an option. This guy is an expert in finding wind and they only survived because they where given water. Fairly sure it was done for dramatic effect.
If you weigh 185 pounds you'll burn about 622 calories per hour rowing at a moderate pace, and about 754 calories in one hour rowing at a strenuous intensity, according to Harvard Medical School.

They were living on 400 cals per day and looking emaciated on it, plus they were dehydrated.

Nezquick

1,453 posts

125 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
Melman Giraffe said:
nicanary said:
Ant up to his old tricks, twisting things to suit himself. If anyone thinks Conrad is right AND YOU WANT HIM AS NEW CAPTAIN, put your hands up. Conrad was proposing no such thing. The skipper is a conniving little st.
No he is a strong leader and that's what leaders do.
Quite. I'm not sure why Conrad couldn't have spoke to Any privately about rowing and settled the idea without potentially dividing the crew at a really crucial time. I suspect that's what Ant was more pissed off about.
I agree.

Ant knew this was a survival trip - it wasn't about beating any time or racing, which is what Conrad couldn't seem to get to grips with. Rowing would have finished them off at that stage of the journey and I would have thought that within 12 hours, the rescue boat would have been needed.

The sign of a true leader (IMO) is not to panic in a situation like that, which is what Ant did. He had confidence in his decision and stuck to his guns.

I'd always take the advice of an ex-SAS soldier over a yacht racer when it came to a question of how to survive.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
Nezquick said:
I agree.

Ant knew this was a survival trip - it wasn't about beating any time or racing, which is what Conrad couldn't seem to get to grips with. Rowing would have finished them off at that stage of the journey and I would have thought that within 12 hours, the rescue boat would have been needed.

The sign of a true leader (IMO) is not to panic in a situation like that, which is what Ant did. He had confidence in his decision and stuck to his guns.

I'd always take the advice of an ex-SAS soldier over a yacht racer when it came to a question of how to survive.
you seem to be forgetting they needed the extra water to survive as they were all dehydrated to a point which could have caused serious health problems, without the water how long do you think they would have "survived" .the Doctor already new he was in a poor state of health. SO their survival was directly linked to the support vessel not the SAS mans abilities.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Wednesday 29th March 2017
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
warp9 said:
Politics aside, wouldn't rowing 5 hours a day to achieve at max a fairly paltry 50 miles have dehydrated them even more, thus hastened 'the end'?
but they could have picked up some wind after a couple of hours rowing and as it was flat calm even gentle rowing could have been an option. This guy is an expert in finding wind and they only survived because they where given water. Fairly sure it was done for dramatic effect.
If you weigh 185 pounds you'll burn about 622 calories per hour rowing at a moderate pace, and about 754 calories in one hour rowing at a strenuous intensity, according to Harvard Medical School.

They were living on 400 cals per day and looking emaciated on it, plus they were dehydrated.
There is rowing and there is rowing. Nobody suggested they go at it like the Boat Race.

I would have made everyone keep their shirts on - bare skin loses more water so not surprising that the most dehydrated was always bare chested.

Some poor planning was evident. They knew exactly how far it was to Timor, and could estimate how many days water they would need. They were becalmed for what, just a week? They should have known there were likely to be windless days, and made provision for it. One additional week should not have been the difference between life and death. Also they could have caught and eaten fish to get water.

Just watched 'unbroken' about Louis Zamperini, a US pilot who survived in a life raft in the Pacific for 47 days. No back up boat for him!

lemmingjames

7,433 posts

203 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
But the boat was meant to have been a replica of Bligh's so i assume everything was scaled as such, ie Bligh had water for 19 men as opposed to 9 and so the water rations where the same.

They also said that during Blighs trip, it was stormy and raining constantly = fresh supply of water, where as Ant had calm and sunshine