Discussion
glazbagun said:
shirt said:
Went to a late showing this evening (2am finish!) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Disappointed that I didn’t see pt1 at the cinema.
Haven’t read the books but read the link on the previous page re: villeneuve’s rationale for plot changes and can see why they made for a better film.
- where did Chani get the ornithopter from when she rocked up in the south?
- can someone please explain what gurney was doing with the spice harvesting crew? That was my only point of confusion and may have missed something. I get it wasn’t one of the Harkonnen crews but that’s it.
- Chani was already in the south, just not with him, she didn't travel that far to get to the temple. Everyone was planning to go south but Paul didn't want to because he knew what would happen if he did (the jihad and death a plenty, and him being made the Lisan al Gaib). Chani was totally on board with him when he explained this reasoning as she didn't want him taken over by the prophecy everyone was pushing. Haven’t read the books but read the link on the previous page re: villeneuve’s rationale for plot changes and can see why they made for a better film.
- where did Chani get the ornithopter from when she rocked up in the south?
- can someone please explain what gurney was doing with the spice harvesting crew? That was my only point of confusion and may have missed something. I get it wasn’t one of the Harkonnen crews but that’s it.
Then Paul walked off into the desert. He is concerned because he did not forsee the attacks by Feyd and could not forsee the route to the path which would lead to their survival. He had a vision/chat with the friend-he-would-have-made-had-he-not-killed-him-in-Dune1 and remembered a conversation he would have had, which convinced him that the only way he could see the future well enough for everyone to survive was to "stand on the tallest dune". He had to drink the water of life and become the Kwisatz Haderach to see the future and the past if he wanted to gaurantee their survival. The exact opposite of what he'd just expressed to Chani.
- Guerney was with a privateer/pirate spice mining crew.
They're not mentioned much in the film but the Guild which controls space travel are super-powerful (basically Bene Geserit / supra-Emperor powerful) since noone can travel without them and they NEED spice to operate as seeing the future is essential in interstellar travel. The Emperor gives the official licence to harvest it to the great houses, but the guild will buy from anyone. Their only concern is that the SPICE MUST FLOW. Which is why Paul stopping spice production brings the whole galaxy to Arrakis.
This is also why the Fremen remain mostly hidden with such large numbers in the south. They've been bribing the guild with spice to prevent their true nature being known to the great houses. The guild only care about getting spice and aren't about to let a single house or emperor try & leverage a monopoly position.
Chani left just before paul so yes assumed she was already there unless he took the express worm. Just the ornithopter seemed odd being there especially as it was likely walking distance from tent to temple. Tbh there are a fair amount of small points where applying logic doesn’t help, but easily overlooked.
I would say that the importance of spice/the guild was downplayed, albeit I can’t remember if this was the same case in pt1.
The Guild hardly features in the movies but were quite an important part of the books. Maybe Villeneuve thought adding yet another faction might confuse some people. I also don't think they empathised the importance of spice enough in the movies. Without it, the galaxy spanning empire, literally collapses.
glazbagun said:
- Chani was already in the south, just not with him, she didn't travel that far to get to the temple. Everyone was planning to go south but Paul didn't want to because he knew what would happen if he did (the jihad and death a plenty, and him being made the Lisan al Gaib). Chani was totally on board with him when he explained this reasoning as she didn't want him taken over by the prophecy everyone was pushing.
Then Paul walked off into the desert. He is concerned because he did not forsee the attacks by Feyd and could not forsee the route to the path which would lead to their survival. He had a vision/chat with the friend-he-would-have-made-had-he-not-killed-him-in-Dune1 and remembered a conversation he would have had, which convinced him that the only way he could see the future well enough for everyone to survive was to "stand on the tallest dune". He had to drink the water of life and become the Kwisatz Haderach to see the future and the past if he wanted to gaurantee their survival. The exact opposite of what he'd just expressed to Chani.
- Guerney was with a privateer/pirate spice mining crew.
They're not mentioned much in the film but the Guild which controls space travel are super-powerful (basically Bene Geserit / supra-Emperor powerful) since noone can travel without them and they NEED spice to operate as seeing the future is essential in interstellar travel. The Emperor gives the official licence to harvest it to the great houses, but the guild will buy from anyone. Their only concern is that the SPICE MUST FLOW. Which is why Paul stopping spice production brings the whole galaxy to Arrakis.
This is also why the Fremen remain mostly hidden with such large numbers in the south. They've been bribing the guild with spice to prevent their true nature being known to the great houses. The guild only care about getting spice and aren't about to let a single house or emperor try & leverage a monopoly position.
Good to know, thanks.Then Paul walked off into the desert. He is concerned because he did not forsee the attacks by Feyd and could not forsee the route to the path which would lead to their survival. He had a vision/chat with the friend-he-would-have-made-had-he-not-killed-him-in-Dune1 and remembered a conversation he would have had, which convinced him that the only way he could see the future well enough for everyone to survive was to "stand on the tallest dune". He had to drink the water of life and become the Kwisatz Haderach to see the future and the past if he wanted to gaurantee their survival. The exact opposite of what he'd just expressed to Chani.
- Guerney was with a privateer/pirate spice mining crew.
They're not mentioned much in the film but the Guild which controls space travel are super-powerful (basically Bene Geserit / supra-Emperor powerful) since noone can travel without them and they NEED spice to operate as seeing the future is essential in interstellar travel. The Emperor gives the official licence to harvest it to the great houses, but the guild will buy from anyone. Their only concern is that the SPICE MUST FLOW. Which is why Paul stopping spice production brings the whole galaxy to Arrakis.
This is also why the Fremen remain mostly hidden with such large numbers in the south. They've been bribing the guild with spice to prevent their true nature being known to the great houses. The guild only care about getting spice and aren't about to let a single house or emperor try & leverage a monopoly position.
shirt said:
Got most of that but seems you’re not responding to me, I didn’t have much of an issue following the plot even though I haven’t read the books, seen the original film etc, only saw pt1 once on a plane.
Yeah sorry about that, think I got two posters mixed up in my head. Guerney bit was half relevant though! 
OK, so having zero connection with Dune, never read book, not a sci-fi fan, I took the plunge and watched the first Villeneuve version expecting a visual feast. Wow, what a dull, boring film. They might have spent a few more quid on a better script and a little less on the visual baubles. Decent cast but wasted for me. I will watch the second one because I do want to know what happens, but this seemed much more like a big budget Netflix series than a movie blockbuster. Each to their own though, I am kinda hard to please. I felt there was zero on screen chemistry between characters, the relationship between Paul and Duncan and his other older mentor was almost Disney in its clichéd appearance and the only character I had any empathy for was Stilgar and the other Fremen, which I appreciate is the set up by boy is it telegraphed.
Moan over, I'll go watch something less highbrow now...
Moan over, I'll go watch something less highbrow now...
biggbn said:
OK, so having zero connection with Dune, never read book, not a sci-fi fan, I took the plunge and watched the first Villeneuve version expecting a visual feast. Wow, what a dull, boring film. They might have spent a few more quid on a better script and a little less on the visual baubles. Decent cast but wasted for me. I will watch the second one because I do want to know what happens, but this seemed much more like a big budget Netflix series than a movie blockbuster. Each to their own though, I am kinda hard to please. I felt there was zero on screen chemistry between characters, the relationship between Paul and Duncan and his other older mentor was almost Disney in its clichéd appearance and the only character I had any empathy for was Stilgar and the other Fremen, which I appreciate is the set up by boy is it telegraphed.
Moan over, I'll go watch something less highbrow now...
Yeah. Totally agree. Visually stunning, but wafty and lacking in any substance. I kind of assumed that's the intention, or that you have to know the books or something. I went to see them both at the local massive IMAX and it was literally awesome, but it's not something I'd ever watch at home.Moan over, I'll go watch something less highbrow now...
shirt said:
Chani left just before paul so yes assumed she was already there unless he took the express worm. Just the ornithopter seemed odd being there especially as it was likely walking distance from tent to temple. Tbh there are a fair amount of small points where applying logic doesn’t help, but easily overlooked.
I would say that the importance of spice/the guild was downplayed, albeit I can’t remember if this was the same case in pt1.
On the Chani bit, both Paul and Chani are travelling South at the same time, Paul is on his own worm and you see him peel off to the left in the scene where they're travelling as he goes straight to the temple. Chani is on a worm with other Freman so goes somewhere else, we then have the scene with Paul drinking the water etc and then Chani arrives by Ornithiopter. I think it's safe to assume they just have Orni's dotted about, they're common between everyone on Arakkis it seems so she's obviously picked one up from where she went to. I agree with you the timeline is a bit glossed over here as it's not explicit how long Paul has been knocked out for, although based on what we saw with his mum and with the crowd that's gathered by the time Chani arrives we can assume it's been quite a few hours. I would say that the importance of spice/the guild was downplayed, albeit I can’t remember if this was the same case in pt1.
Agree with you about the guild and spice, it's given a back seat in DVs films and used more as a MacGuffin to drive the bigger narrative which works tbh given the limited screentime available.
richwain24 said:
I am yet to watch this, went to watch the first one on Netflix, not sure it's my thing but from reading this thread I might now give it a watch. Would everyone recommend it???
Depends what is your thing. Me, I’d never go see a superhero movie at the cinema for example. Last film I watched before this at the cinema was Oppenheimer. I didn’t have any issue with the pacing or the run time but it’s clear my tastes are not light entertainment. I would say it is definitely deserving of being watched on a big screen rather than at home. It demands attention. That said if your tastes run opposite to mine I can see how 3 hrs would be a stretch.
Might actually go watch it again at the imax.
richwain24 said:
I am yet to watch this, went to watch the first one on Netflix, not sure it's my thing but from reading this thread I might now give it a watch. Would everyone recommend it???
I think part 1 and 2 are brilliant sci-fi movies, in fact I'd say they are up there with some of the best sci-fi made in the last decade. However the films are not to everyone's taste. If you are expecting modern cinema style, crash, bang, wallop, they certainly aren't that. Not to say there isn't any action but they are based on a lengthy and very in depth book so the film spends a lot of time world building, developing the story and characters. Definitely a slower paced and more cerebral experience then most modern audiences are used to so if you have a short attention span, I'd steer clear.richwain24 said:
I am yet to watch this, went to watch the first one on Netflix, not sure it's my thing but from reading this thread I might now give it a watch. Would everyone recommend it???
I'll add my 2p. As others have said, it depends on what's "your thing". IMO (I'd say I have an eclectic taste in movies but a hardcore sci-fi fan at heart)......They are both movies that create a world and scale seldom seen in movies now. More than that, they manage to weave a complex story that deals with intergalactic politics, love, destiny and what it means to belong in a stunningly beautiful landscape with one of the best music scores of modern times. Part 2 especially.
I'd never read Dune or seen the 1984 film before, but Part 1 blew me away. Part 2 I've now seen 3 times (and I'd see again tomorrow if I had the time) made me go and watch the Lynch version and once Messiah is out, I'll read the books for sure.
I can understand why some people don't like the films, everyone's taste is different but I think those that it does land with (which is a huge number of people) seem to love it.
Guvernator said:
I think part 1 and 2 are brilliant sci-fi movies, in fact I'd say they are up there with some of the best sci-fi made in the last decade. However the films are not to everyone's taste. If you are expecting modern cinema style, crash, bang, wallop, they certainly aren't that. Not to say there isn't any action but they are based on a lengthy and very in depth book so the film spends a lot of time world building, developing the story and characters. Definitely a slower paced and more cerebral experience then most modern audiences are used to so if you have a short attention span, I'd steer clear.
That seems like a very fair appraisal.Guvernator said:
richwain24 said:
I am yet to watch this, went to watch the first one on Netflix, not sure it's my thing but from reading this thread I might now give it a watch. Would everyone recommend it???
I think part 1 and 2 are brilliant sci-fi movies, in fact I'd say they are up there with some of the best sci-fi made in the last decade. However the films are not to everyone's taste. If you are expecting modern cinema style, crash, bang, wallop, they certainly aren't that. Not to say there isn't any action but they are based on a lengthy and very in depth book so the film spends a lot of time world building, developing the story and characters. Definitely a slower paced and more cerebral experience then most modern audiences are used to so if you have a short attention span, I'd steer clear.
Mojooo said:
Style over substance
Thought it was awful and even worse than the first one which I found dull as hell but could kind of see why others liked it as it was building up to something. Part 2 was terrible and even the 2 Dune fans who made me go thought the same.
Of course they did Thought it was awful and even worse than the first one which I found dull as hell but could kind of see why others liked it as it was building up to something. Part 2 was terrible and even the 2 Dune fans who made me go thought the same.
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