Discussion
Skeptisk said:
I suspect that it was adapted for both modern sensibilities (Chani didn’t figure as much in the book as an independent character and it was more common at the time it was written for women to have bit parts) and because she was being played by Zendaya, who is popular so they wanted to use her more.
Chani kills someone who came to challenge Paul at one point as I recall. It is not so much that she wasn't an independent character more that she was the product of a very different society to a modern western one. One where everything was consumed by the struggle for survival of the tribe. This is also what makes the Fremen so formidable and dangerous and if you take away that it takes away why it was so important for Paul to be able to lead them. Without it they are nothing when compared to the size of the human galaxy.
Edited by JagLover on Tuesday 16th April 14:31
I haven't read the books so I can't comment on that front.
I watched part 2 last night. Enjoyed it overall, but I felt it was lacking in substance. It seemed very disjointed. There isn't enough explanation. Things seemed to jump around in time, there was no way of identifying how long it had been between the current and previous scene. It seemed like a long time had passed, yet that embryo stays the same, so not really.
From my understanding, the books span over hundreds of years, and they're only making 6 films? And not even a year has passed between the start of the first film and the end of the second film?
I watched part 2 last night. Enjoyed it overall, but I felt it was lacking in substance. It seemed very disjointed. There isn't enough explanation. Things seemed to jump around in time, there was no way of identifying how long it had been between the current and previous scene. It seemed like a long time had passed, yet that embryo stays the same, so not really.
From my understanding, the books span over hundreds of years, and they're only making 6 films? And not even a year has passed between the start of the first film and the end of the second film?
fasimew said:
From my understanding, the books span over hundreds of years, and they're only making 6 films? And not even a year has passed between the start of the first film and the end of the second film?
Dune takes place over maybe 5 or 6 years, and includes the birth of Alia and her as a child.Dune Messiah and Children of Dune both take place several years after when Alia is an adult, and covers only a couple of years.
God Emperor of Dune takes place immediately after Children of Dune, but spans hundreds of years as the God Emperor is effectively immortal.
For the films, Dune Part 1 and Dune Part 2 cover the book Dune, and I understand that the 3rd film will cover Dune Messiah
JagLover said:
Chani kills someone who came to challenge Paul at one point as I recall. It is not so much that she wasn't an independent character more that she was the product of a very different society to a modern western one. One where everything was consumed by the struggle for survival of the tribe.
True, however she does that unquestioningly and with little agency. The point being made was that the Chani of the Villeneuve films *does* question and *does* have agency. Clockwork Cupcake said:
fasimew said:
From my understanding, the books span over hundreds of years, and they're only making 6 films? And not even a year has passed between the start of the first film and the end of the second film?
Dune takes place over maybe 5 or 6 years, and includes the birth of Alia and her as a child.Dune Messiah and Children of Dune both take place several years after when Alia is an adult, and covers only a couple of years.
God Emperor of Dune takes place immediately after Children of Dune, but spans hundreds of years as the God Emperor is effectively immortal.
For the films, Dune Part 1 and Dune Part 2 cover the book Dune, and I understand that the 3rd film will cover Dune Messiah
Messiah is around 20 years after dune and children of dune about 10 years after that.
God emperor is over 3000 years after that.
It’s been a while, but I think that’s probably closer.
robemcdonald said:
I think a lot of your timescales are wrong.
Messiah is around 20 years after dune and children of dune about 10 years after that.
God emperor is over 3000 years after that.
It’s been a while, but I think that’s probably closer.
I'm fairly certain Messiah is 12 years after Dune as I've read that several times when articles have discussed what they'll do with Anya Taylor-Joy playing Alia (she's 4 at the end of Dune I believe, so they'd have to age the character up in the films somehow as ATJ can't play a 16 year old I'd say!)Messiah is around 20 years after dune and children of dune about 10 years after that.
God emperor is over 3000 years after that.
It’s been a while, but I think that’s probably closer.
robemcdonald said:
I think a lot of your timescales are wrong.
Messiah is around 20 years after dune and children of dune about 10 years after that.
God emperor is over 3000 years after that.
It’s been a while, but I think that’s probably closer.
I did say "several years" for Messiah and that encompasses 20. Messiah is around 20 years after dune and children of dune about 10 years after that.
God emperor is over 3000 years after that.
It’s been a while, but I think that’s probably closer.
Plus I mentioned that Alia was an adult which, again, encompasses 20.
God Emperor is very much a direct continuation from Children although, admittedly, some time has passed between the two. Perhaps it is indeed 3000 years. I can't really remember. But the God Emperor is one of the aforementioned Children and he began his transformation towards the end of Children
So what I said was correct, from a certain point of view (to quote another Sci-Fi franchise).
But, yes, ok, granted, not entirely correct.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
robemcdonald said:
I think a lot of your timescales are wrong.
Messiah is around 20 years after dune and children of dune about 10 years after that.
God emperor is over 3000 years after that.
It’s been a while, but I think that’s probably closer.
I did say "several years" for Messiah and that encompasses 20. Messiah is around 20 years after dune and children of dune about 10 years after that.
God emperor is over 3000 years after that.
It’s been a while, but I think that’s probably closer.
Plus I mentioned that Alia was an adult which, again, encompasses 20.
God Emperor is very much a direct continuation from Children although, admittedly, some time has passed between the two. Perhaps it is indeed 3000 years. I can't really remember. But the God Emperor is one of the aforementioned Children and he began his transformation towards the end of Children
So what I said was correct, from a certain point of view (to quote another Sci-Fi franchise).
But, yes, ok, granted, not entirely correct.
I did google the dune messiah thing and it does look like it’s actually 12 years as another poster said. So in the next movie ATJ will be playing a 12 year old… let’s see how that goes.
robemcdonald said:
Fair enough.
I did google the dune messiah thing and it does look like it’s actually 12 years as another poster said. So in the next movie ATJ will be playing a 12 year old… let’s see how that goes.
Book Dune ended a number of years later, so the total time elapsed by Dune Messiah was around 17 years or so. I did google the dune messiah thing and it does look like it’s actually 12 years as another poster said. So in the next movie ATJ will be playing a 12 year old… let’s see how that goes.
JagLover said:
robemcdonald said:
Fair enough.
I did google the dune messiah thing and it does look like it’s actually 12 years as another poster said. So in the next movie ATJ will be playing a 12 year old… let’s see how that goes.
Book Dune ended a number of years later, so the total time elapsed by Dune Messiah was around 17 years or so. I did google the dune messiah thing and it does look like it’s actually 12 years as another poster said. So in the next movie ATJ will be playing a 12 year old… let’s see how that goes.
So I'm interested how they portray her and Paul considering Chalamet barely looks in his 20s now he's so youthful. I'd imagine she's locked in for Messiah otherwise they wouldn't have cast and I think she'll be excellent in the part.
I'd certainly recommend drawing a line in the sand at only the Frank Herbert books. The continuation books authored by his son and others were very much a case of diminishing returns. Some of them were ok and were some interesting backstory but they were a mixed bunch and there were too many of them. I think I gave up somewhere in the mid 2000's (just checking my bookshelves and it looks like "Sandworms of Dune" (2007) was the last one I bought) and Wikipedia tells me there have been many since.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I'd certainly recommend drawing a line in the sand at only the Frank Herbert books. The continuation books authored by his son and others were very much a case of diminishing returns. Some of them were ok and were some interesting backstory but they were a mixed bunch and there were too many of them. I think I gave up somewhere in the mid 2000's (just checking my bookshelves and it looks like "Sandworms of Dune" (2007) was the last one I bought) and Wikipedia tells me there have been many since.
That's good to hear! I bought them after discussing with my Mum why she got rid of her old copy of Dune (she's a massive reader), I have childhood memories of the cover with a blue and gold airship type thing on it. She's no idea, she can't remember giving it away and doesn't remember reading it that well. She mentioned she wanted to re-read it so I agreed to buy them now and give them to her by the time she's done I'll probably have time to read them Plus they were lovely hardback editions so even if I don't ever get round to them they look nice.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I'd certainly recommend drawing a line in the sand at only the Frank Herbert books. The continuation books authored by his son and others were very much a case of diminishing returns. Some of them were ok and were some interesting backstory but they were a mixed bunch and there were too many of them. I think I gave up somewhere in the mid 2000's (just checking my bookshelves and it looks like "Sandworms of Dune" (2007) was the last one I bought) and Wikipedia tells me there have been many since.
I'd draw the line at the first book 
I read them 20+ years ago (re-reading Dune at the moment though) and remember Dune being one of my favourite books I'd read, the second and third being good not great, the fourth (God Emperor of Dune) being a bit weird, the fifth (Heretics of Dune) being so strange I didn't bother with the sixth.
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