Mr Bates vs The Post Office
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
HAL 9000 springs to mind
I don't see why. HAL was programmed specifically to undertake and protect a mission that only it knew about and it did precisely that. By contrast the Post Office system was not deliberately designed and programmed to make accounting errors. It did so because of errors in its code. Now that happens all the time in complex software systems but what created this situation was the refusal of the Post Office or the system supplier to admit it. 
Alickadoo said:
What I am suggesting is that we keep a sense of proportion.
The Post Office is not totally corrupt. It may have been partially corrupt.
The country is not ruined.
I am suggesting that we avoid exaggerated language.
Calm down, dear.
i agree. however, as a country we need to be better at going after people with money/influence when appropriate. The Post Office is not totally corrupt. It may have been partially corrupt.
The country is not ruined.
I am suggesting that we avoid exaggerated language.
Calm down, dear.
GreengiantPH said:
Watched the first episode, very good, need to binge watch the rest tomorrow.
Observation because I recognised them, Fenny Compton village hall is actually Pratts Bottom Village hall in North Kent. Recognised it because they hold a model railway exhibition there every year and I have exhibited layouts there many times. I used to belong to the railway club in the village.
Lee the post master, which I think they said his post office was in Birmingham, is actually in St Mary Cray, just behind the Mary Rose pub, just a few miles down the road from Pratts Bottom.
[nerdy observation off]
Thanks. I know Pratts Bottom and didnt even realise. I'll be driving past it (the hall) tomorrow on my way to the garden centre for coffee and cake. Observation because I recognised them, Fenny Compton village hall is actually Pratts Bottom Village hall in North Kent. Recognised it because they hold a model railway exhibition there every year and I have exhibited layouts there many times. I used to belong to the railway club in the village.
Lee the post master, which I think they said his post office was in Birmingham, is actually in St Mary Cray, just behind the Mary Rose pub, just a few miles down the road from Pratts Bottom.
[nerdy observation off]
The acting was indeed great. The older guy that came back from prison and met the other postmaster was as convincing as anyone I've ever seen on TV/film. I genuinely wondered if it was actually him.
I've only watched one episode so far and it is verging on making me miserable. But I guess it is always best to learn about real life.
Alickadoo said:
What I am suggesting is that we keep a sense of proportion.
The Post Office is not totally corrupt. It may have been partially corrupt.
The country is not ruined.
I am suggesting that we avoid exaggerated language.
Calm down, dear.
He didn't say the country is ruined, you're greatly exaggerating.The Post Office is not totally corrupt. It may have been partially corrupt.
The country is not ruined.
I am suggesting that we avoid exaggerated language.
Calm down, dear.
However this case is a metaphor for how the country is doing. There's been many great concerns over British justice over the years and this case shows the concerns are still perfectly valid. If Vennels, and managers and engineers from Fujitsu aren't put in court having committed perjury then the concerns are as valid today as ever.
It's not just this case of course, the health service, our water supplies, our inability to efficiently build a railway, public services and transport, the concerns go on and on.
What a terrible past decade or so this has been.
Mrs RJ applied for a job with one of our local sub Post Offices in mid 2008, part of a group of extremely well known shops with SPO's in store.
During the interview it was mentioned that if at the end of the day her cash etc was not balanced, she would be personally responsible for making up the shortfall.
Came home and spoke to me about it, saying with that in mind she wouldn't accept the job if offered.
Next day she gets a call saying she's got the job and apparently the manager was really surprised when she turned it down and told them why.
Dodged a bullet there maybe?
During the interview it was mentioned that if at the end of the day her cash etc was not balanced, she would be personally responsible for making up the shortfall.
Came home and spoke to me about it, saying with that in mind she wouldn't accept the job if offered.
Next day she gets a call saying she's got the job and apparently the manager was really surprised when she turned it down and told them why.
Dodged a bullet there maybe?
Edited by Rushjob on Tuesday 2nd January 08:55
Bonefish Blues said:
I bet someone turned up in a boardroom and proudly announced that the new system had uncovered widespread hitherto undetected fraud.
Was there significant (enough that these cases didn't make that much difference) fraud anyway?It beggars belief that they could have gone from years of next to nothing to 15yrs of a case per week.
Rushjob said:
Dodged a bullet there maybe?
Indeed, our office was one of the ones that was closed down in the early phases of reducing the network, I look back now and count my lucky stars.Edited by Rushjob on Tuesday 2nd January 08:55
Edited by Nurburgsingh on Tuesday 2nd January 11:31
ked up. Move on. No-one cares about your semantic debate.Randy Winkman said:
Thanks. I know Pratts Bottom and didnt even realise. I'll be driving past it (the hall) tomorrow on my way to the garden centre for coffee and cake.
The acting was indeed great. The older guy that came back from prison and met the other postmaster was as convincing as anyone I've ever seen on TV/film. I genuinely wondered if it was actually him.
I've only watched one episode so far and it is verging on making me miserable. But I guess it is always best to learn about real life.
Very good. A lot of it filmed beautifully in North Wales. As mentioned, some of our best actors as well. 'The older guy' is Ifan Huw Dafydd, one of Wales' finest actors (he played Nessa's father in 'Gavin and Stacey' if you're wondering where you've seen him before). The person depicted - Noel Thomas is very well known and respected in his native Anglesey and has just written a book about his experience 'The Stamp of Innocence'.The acting was indeed great. The older guy that came back from prison and met the other postmaster was as convincing as anyone I've ever seen on TV/film. I genuinely wondered if it was actually him.
I've only watched one episode so far and it is verging on making me miserable. But I guess it is always best to learn about real life.
Edited by Rh14n on Tuesday 9th January 22:48
Rushjob said:
Mrs RJ applied for a job with one of our local sub Post Offices in mid 2008, part of a group of extremely well known shops with SPO's in store.
During the interview it was mentioned that if at the end of the day her cash etc was not balanced, she would be personally responsible for making up the shortfall.
Came home and spoke to me about it, saying with that in mind she wouldn't accept the job if offered.
Next day she gets a call saying she's got the job and apparently the manager was really surprised when she turned it down and told them why.
Dodged a bullet there maybe?
Bullet dodged indeed. During the interview it was mentioned that if at the end of the day her cash etc was not balanced, she would be personally responsible for making up the shortfall.
Came home and spoke to me about it, saying with that in mind she wouldn't accept the job if offered.
Next day she gets a call saying she's got the job and apparently the manager was really surprised when she turned it down and told them why.
Dodged a bullet there maybe?
Edited by Rushjob on Tuesday 2nd January 08:55
Whilst they are completely innocent in this scandal, I remain surprised at how many SPMs took on such a responsibility from the outset. I guess blind trust that it would be OK.
I thought the lady who played Jo was very good in the first episode. I think a lot of us know a local shop owner like that.
I certainly don’t think this kind of endemic in the UK; I think the UK is no worse than many other countries and probably better than many.
Where this one differs, a highly respected institution introduces a system, that suddenly show wrong doing on a massive scale and nobody thought “Hang on a minute, something doesn’t look right” no logic was used, it was just “The computers says”, and that’s it.
Having been on the wrong end of “The computer says” is extremely frustrating. This is different, people went to prison on the strength of “The computer says”.
At the very least, all bonuses/golden handshakes paid in that period to senior management should be returned to the Post Office. Fujitsu should be barred from bidding for government contracts, for the immediate future.
Paula Vennells should be stripped of her CBE, as it was given in a large part for services to the Post Office.
Where this one differs, a highly respected institution introduces a system, that suddenly show wrong doing on a massive scale and nobody thought “Hang on a minute, something doesn’t look right” no logic was used, it was just “The computers says”, and that’s it.
Having been on the wrong end of “The computer says” is extremely frustrating. This is different, people went to prison on the strength of “The computer says”.
At the very least, all bonuses/golden handshakes paid in that period to senior management should be returned to the Post Office. Fujitsu should be barred from bidding for government contracts, for the immediate future.
Paula Vennells should be stripped of her CBE, as it was given in a large part for services to the Post Office.
I was watching with the OH last night and commented how the victims of this must have a huge compensation claim at least ongoing.
But I've done some more research and learned that the Post Office paid out £57m in damages in 2019 (of which £46m was for legal fees) to 555 claimants and have basically said they don't have the money for any more. The Government have therefore had to step in to assist further claims.
Outrageous.
But I've done some more research and learned that the Post Office paid out £57m in damages in 2019 (of which £46m was for legal fees) to 555 claimants and have basically said they don't have the money for any more. The Government have therefore had to step in to assist further claims.
Outrageous.
Muzzer79 said:
I was watching with the OH last night and commented how the victims of this must have a huge compensation claim at least ongoing.
But I've done some more research and learned that the Post Office paid out £57m in damages in 2019 (of which £46m was for legal fees) to 555 claimants and have basically said they don't have the money for any more. The Government have therefore had to step in to assist further claims.
Outrageous.
Outrageous indeed.But I've done some more research and learned that the Post Office paid out £57m in damages in 2019 (of which £46m was for legal fees) to 555 claimants and have basically said they don't have the money for any more. The Government have therefore had to step in to assist further claims.
Outrageous.
And much like the tainted blood scandal (another similarly disgusting subject not covered any near as much as it should be) they have, and continue to, drag their heels in coming to a resolution whilst victims continue to age/die/get tired of fighting.
And obviously if the government are paying, that essentially means the taxpayers, not those who causes it.
Mezzanine said:
Outrageous indeed.
And much like the tainted blood scandal (another similarly disgusting subject not covered any near as much as it should be) they have, and continue to, drag their heels in coming to a resolution whilst victims continue to age/die/get tired of fighting.
And obviously if the government are paying, that essentially means the taxpayers, not those who causes it.
Ah yes, the Tainted Blood debacle. And much like the tainted blood scandal (another similarly disgusting subject not covered any near as much as it should be) they have, and continue to, drag their heels in coming to a resolution whilst victims continue to age/die/get tired of fighting.
And obviously if the government are paying, that essentially means the taxpayers, not those who causes it.
Where the government lost it's first whipped vote since 2019.
The Government voted against speeding up compensation payments, The usual head bangers obliged. When Andrea Jenkyns, breaking the whip and votes with Labour, then you truly are on the wrong side of the debate.
Seasonal Hero said:
Paula Vennalls earned £5m whilst at the PO. Claw all of that back and give it to those affected, tax free. Same for every exec involved along with those at Fujitsu. And then sling the lot inside.
You mean make Execs personally liable for loss in the way that Subpostmasters were/are. You may be on to something there.Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff