Derren Brown ?

[erolb]

jackal said:

mouk786 said:

Also, lets assume the scroll at the end was somehow put into the box before it came down or swapped over - how did he do it? I presume all of the info bar the girl at the end was written o nthe scroll after it happened, so the scroll was produced when they had enough info to fill it up bbar the final girl who was probably pre picked fro mthe start.

ok... the box is a well known prop or effect called the Malloy master prediction chest
its very well made, complicated and very expensive
the one Derren Brown used isn't even modified or made specially to order. Its looks just like the regular chest available on the Molly website.

a stangehand prepares the scroll in real time backstage as all the stuff is revealed by the audience throughout the show



the scroll when finished gets inserted or installed by the stagehand into the table that the malloy chest sits on
the chest only works in conjunction with the table/stand (like many many other illusions !)
I think the table is brought on stage when he faints.. doesnt really matter that much to be honest

the chest is lowered and brought onto the table
As it engages down onto the table a mechanism injects the scroll from the table (in the leg of the table) through a flap up into the chest and into the 'sphagetti jar'. These props are well made.. trust me. You could inspect the chest and you wouldn't spot any 'trap doors' underneath.

So the scroll gets from backstage into the chest, via the table. Very clever and you'd never think of it. Tables are for putting things on and chests only open at the lid. WRONG ! See how magic tricks so often rely on the automatic and everyday suppositions of the audience. Never take anything for granted or assume convention.

the performer opens chest and voila.... inside is the scroll with all the predictions.


as for the girl at the end, read my earlier post
she is picked out before the start of the show
her clothes are noted and these are written onto the end of the scroll (so the scroll can be finished before the "top psychic" routine with her starts)

Brown only pretends to write a number prediction behind his back on that piece of paper. Then he asks the specific girl who has been singled out earlier for a number and whatever she calls, he adds 3 then traces that number out onto the piece of paper through the envelope when convenient and with his left ahnd dropped and relaxed and with the palm and envelope most likely turned away from the audience. This is a well known magic prop, fingernail wirting or the swami gimmick. He writes the number afterwards whilst its in the envelope. Imagine holding a playing card with all your fingertips but then with your forefinger you move your nail on the back of it. The pressure of the nail applies ink or carbon onto the piece of paper via the trick envelope. Brown even apologises beforehand for his bad handwriting so that the audience is not alarmed or puzzled when they see his terrible writing (its not easy writing on something with a nail whilst you hold the item with the same hand). He then asks 2 other audience member sfor 2 numbers just to make the selection process seem authentic. he then opens the card and voila, the number is closest to hers and her clothes and appearance and height etc.. are already safely written down on teh scroll by the stagehand.

Edited by jackal on Thursday 15th January 02:49

Well done that man.

[SJobson]

I haven't read any of Derren Brown's books, but are they accurate, or do they deliberately contain misdirection themselves - such as the fact that he doesn't believe in NLP, as stated above?

[dumbfunk]

Not sure if I understood your point exactly but Brown completely believes in NLP - it's the basis of his career - it's spooky mysticism that he has no time for. The books I've read were really interesting and contain lots of interesting stuff on the man himself and how he developed these skills. They're a great starter if you want to find out more about the science of it.

If you found the show fascinating I'd recommend them.


dumbfunk

[mouk786]

Thanks Jackal

I think I pretty much know how all the tricks work now

I think he let himself down a bit on the 20 questions, when he was just bloody guessing thigns almost staright away, at least do a few questions and make it look difficult.

same with the oracle thing tbh

[SJobson]

37Flipper said:

If you read his book 'Trick of the Mind' he almost goes as far to say he's not sure he believes in NLP either.

As I say, I haven't read any of his books; I was referring to this post.

More generally, do the books misdirect the reader away from the fact that it's just magic with props as Paul Daniels used to do? It's obviously good business sense to reinforce the enigma whenever possible.

[dumbfunk]

I don't recall that part of the book but in general I thought he seemed very open in print. Naturally he doesn't give the game away but does clearly explain memory techniques and such like. Either way he's a fascinating person at the top of his game.

[maix27]

mouk786 said:

Thanks Jackal

I think I pretty much know how all the tricks work now

I think he let himself down a bit on the 20 questions, when he was just bloody guessing thigns almost staright away, at least do a few questions and make it look difficult.

same with the oracle thing tbh

How does he do the 20 questions thing tho? Is it purely reading people and suggestion?

[jackal]

maix27 said:

mouk786 said:

Thanks Jackal

I think I pretty much know how all the tricks work now

I think he let himself down a bit on the 20 questions, when he was just bloody guessing thigns almost staright away, at least do a few questions and make it look difficult.

same with the oracle thing tbh

How does he do the 20 questions thing tho? Is it purely reading people and suggestion?

i've already answered that above

as with everything else, nothing to do with anything psychological or 'reading' etc..
its a magic trick

[shakotan]

So we understand some of the more physical tricks, and how they work.

What about 'The Heist', or 'Russian Roulette', or when he made a woman at the dogtrack pay out on a losing ticket?

Are they just set-up with actors playing the part of Joe Public?

Edited by shakotan on Thursday 15th January 17:20

[hairykrishna]

shakotan said:

What about 'The Heist', or 'Russian Roulette', or when he made a woman at the dogtrack way out on a losing ticket?

I watched the dog track one again on google video. Initially I thought it might be a ticket substitionn trick combined with something on the barcode to stop it reading properly the first time through. However, barring a cleverly hidden edit, Derren doesn't touch the ticket the third time. The womans reaction to paying a 'wrong' ticket seems genuine so my guess is collusion with the people who run the dog track betting (essentially her managers). Setting it up so that the PDQ machine thingy tells the woman to pay out for that particular ticket, even though the human readable details on it are a loser, would be trivial.

Edited by hairykrishna on Saturday 17th January 18:06

[shakotan]

hairykrishna said:

shakotan said:

So we understand some of the more physical tricks, and how they work.

What about 'The Heist', or 'Russian Roulette', or when he made a woman at the dogtrack way out on a losing ticket?

Are they just set-up with actors playing the part of Joe Public?

I always assumed Russian Roulette was a fairly simple prop trick. He had plenty of time to substitute the gun after the other bloke looked at it. Not sure about the others.

You're right, of course!

I don't even know why I included it, the enquiry was supposed to be in regard to the more 'pychological' tricks he plays?

[monthefish]

dwilkie said:

If he brings out a book when he retires with all his secrets, I'm buying it because it's going to nag me forever

I would too, but (sadly) there is no way he will ever divulge the secrets that have made him such a success.

shakotan said:

I saw one of his shows when he was trying to guess pictures that people had drawn.

I picked up on one of the pictures, when he was telling the person to draw something, his speech contained keywords like 'wave' and 'sail' (although not directly in context, something like "Let your thoughts come over you like a wave, let your mind sail into the distance to think of an object to draw").

Sure enough, the person drew a crude picture of a yacht, which Derren 'guessed' correctly.

He's quite upfront about using this technique though.

On one of his shows, he got some people to line up, and then one by one they would come forward and guess which hand the £50 note was in. If they guessed correctly, they kept the money.

About halfway through the exercise, DB says "how many of you are LEFT?", and sure enough the next person to come forward picks the left hand. He pointed out how he'd maniuplated the situation.

He also manipulated an entire show using this technique (something about newspapers, and which page/word somebody would select).

Very clever and, as most have said, an excellent showman.

[hairykrishna]

monthefish said:

He also manipulated an entire show using this technique (something about newspapers, and which page/word somebody would select).

Again though this was bks. It's not suggestion; it's a trick. It's a variant on the 'Book Test'. He's a good magician but he doesn't have the near-supernatural powers of suggestion people ascribe to him.

[mouk786]

the other live show they showed of him - where he suggested he had gotten peopel to select certain things by subliminally saying certain words throughout the show and then showing the video of it at the end - he made it look a great mind control trick - but it was obviously still a pre determined/planned trick - anyone know how THAT one was done?

i sposed you woudl have to watch or rewatch the show to remember it properly.

[Lordbenny]

I missed it! Repeated tonight 9:30 E4

[monthefish]

hairykrishna said:

monthefish said:

He also manipulated an entire show using this technique (something about newspapers, and which page/word somebody would select).

Again though this was bks. It's not suggestion; it's a trick. It's a variant on the 'Book Test'. He's a good magician but he doesn't have the near-supernatural powers of suggestion people ascribe to him.

You're wrong.

It's MAGIC, I tells ya....

[hairykrishna]

shakotan said:

So we understand some of the more physical tricks, and how they work.

What about 'The Heist', or 'Russian Roulette', or when he made a woman at the dogtrack pay out on a losing ticket?

Watched the dog track one again on google video. Thought at first he might be substituting the ticket along with something to stop the barcode reading properly the first time through. However, barring a well hidden edit, Derren doesn't touch the ticket the third time.

My guess is colusion with the people who run the track. The woman at the windows reaction to the fact that she's paid an apparently losing ticket seems genuine so I don't think she's in on it. It would be trivially easy for them to set it up so that PDQ machine thingy tells her to pays out for that particular ticket/barcode. Irrelevant that the human readable info on it is a 'loser' because the payouts don't go off that. If they did I'd be making my fortune at the dog track with a laptop and a thermal printer.

[Republik]

Ok, thread ressurection time. This Events thingy, that starts tonight. He is predicting the lottery numbers at 10.35 live, the exact time the lottery is being drawn. How on earth is he going to do this?

ETA: Some people thought that the date 9/09/09 was related to the Devil (666 is 999 upside down) and they also thought that he may have been behind the recent jewellery robberies (999-police). They even thought he may cause everyone at the England game on the 9th to freeze.

Edited by Republik on Wednesday 9th September 16:14

[mouseymousey]

Republik said:

Ok, thread ressurection time. This Events thingy, that starts tonight. He is predicting the lottery numbers at 10.35 live, the exact time the lottery is being drawn. How on earth is he going to do this?

ETA: Some people thought that the date 9/09/09 was related to the Devil (666 is 999 upside down) and they also thought that he may have been behind the recent jewellery robberies (999-police). They even thought he may cause everyone at the England game on the 9th to freeze.

Edited by Republik on Wednesday 9th September 16:14

I can only see 3 possibilities to this.

1 - He does it slightly behind live
2 - He writes down the numbers and puts them in an an envelope, then switches the numbers after the draw
3 - He fails miserably

I'll be watching with interest though

[Republik]

Is it correct that its running on all the channel 4 owned stations (More 4, E4 etc) at the same time?