Game of Thrones - No spoilers
Discussion
irocfan said:
Durzel said:
Sand Snakes fight looked like something straight out of Xena the Warrior Princess.
Maybe they spent all the money on the location and didn't have enough left over for choreography?
Jaime and Bronn appearing when they did made sense - unfamiliar territory, but for all the buildup about the Sand Snake chicks their entire plan seemed to amount to nothing more than ineffectually attacking in broad daylight while another third party was involved.
it could well be that the location itself put the kibosh on a more violent or extended fight scene....Maybe they spent all the money on the location and didn't have enough left over for choreography?
Jaime and Bronn appearing when they did made sense - unfamiliar territory, but for all the buildup about the Sand Snake chicks their entire plan seemed to amount to nothing more than ineffectually attacking in broad daylight while another third party was involved.
Patrick Bateman said:
What's with all this 'outrage' 
at Sansa getting raped I'm reading on the internet? Some people just love to play Helen Lovejoy.
The usual Tumblr/Twitter meltdowns really. at Sansa getting raped I'm reading on the internet? Some people just love to play Helen Lovejoy.- Sansa being raped and camera focusing on Theon. WHY SHOULD SHE SUFFER TO ADVANCE A MALE CHARACTER'S DEVELOPMENT??
- Why should she suffer (any more) period.
- People in real life have been raped ipso facto no TV show should show a rape regardless of whether it is thematically and historically apropos. GoT should therefore refrain from showing anything that might trigger anyone at any point.
I find it more remarkable that people watch (and continue to watch) a show that they find repugnant. Is it because they can't reconcile not being able to mould it to what they want it to be? It seems a lot of this s
t comes from people who just can't stop watching something that triggers them, they have to bend it to their will.Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 19th May 14:19
Patrick Bateman said:
What's with all this 'outrage' at Sansa getting raped I'm reading on the internet? Some people just love to play Helen Lovejoy.
In fairness the bits I've read aren't complaining about the rape per-se, it's not 'The Brady Bunch' after all, no the fall out, as ever it seems, comes from the fans of the book - TV Sansa has been merged with another character and made into a 'professional victim' who sole purpose in the TV version is to go from one horrible husband/partner to another and we're all to feel sorry for her. In the books it's this other character who gets raped, whilst she's pretending to be Sansa. at Sansa getting raped I'm reading on the internet? Some people just love to play Helen Lovejoy.Apart from a scarce few moments, TV Sansa mostly stands around looking scared waiting to be saved.
But, like so many things with GoT, the hardcore book fans don't want to hear about budgets, limits on what can be do with TV or anything other sensible reason why TV GoT can't be exactly the same as Book GoT - they just get angry.
Agreed with most here that this was a weak episode.
The fight scene was reminiscent of a school play!
I don't quite get:
Why Olenna Tyrell would rock up with such a weak force that apparently guarded her all the way on her 'long journey?'
Why O Tyrell and M Tyrell allowed themselves to be manipulated so easily by Cersei?
Would M Tyrell not have kept asking the king to release her brother?
Would Cersei really risk alienating herself against House Tyrell and House Bolton effectively trusting Petyr Baelish (who is the least trustworthy of all)?
The fight scene was reminiscent of a school play!
I don't quite get:
Why Olenna Tyrell would rock up with such a weak force that apparently guarded her all the way on her 'long journey?'
Why O Tyrell and M Tyrell allowed themselves to be manipulated so easily by Cersei?
Would M Tyrell not have kept asking the king to release her brother?
Would Cersei really risk alienating herself against House Tyrell and House Bolton effectively trusting Petyr Baelish (who is the least trustworthy of all)?
Durzel said:
Sand Snakes fight looked like something straight out of Xena the Warrior Princess.
Maybe they spent all the money on the location and didn't have enough left over for choreography?
Jaime and Bronn appearing when they did made sense - unfamiliar territory, but for all the buildup about the Sand Snake chicks their entire plan seemed to amount to nothing more than ineffectually attacking in broad daylight while another third party was involved. Quite why Chief Sand Snake or whatever her name is just stood around waiting to be caught (what was her purpose there?) didn't make any sense.
ThisMaybe they spent all the money on the location and didn't have enough left over for choreography?
Jaime and Bronn appearing when they did made sense - unfamiliar territory, but for all the buildup about the Sand Snake chicks their entire plan seemed to amount to nothing more than ineffectually attacking in broad daylight while another third party was involved. Quite why Chief Sand Snake or whatever her name is just stood around waiting to be caught (what was her purpose there?) didn't make any sense.
Not sure the choreography would have made the cut on Xena.
The stuff in Dorne, aside from Doran, has been just awful. Looks like it belongs on a different show.
The rest of the episode was OK, not sure why everyone is getting in hysterics about Sansa. Sure she shouldn't be there but she is just taking the place of a character who went through far worse.
My thoughts on the fight in Dorne comes from Bronn's comment of being quite good "for a little girl".
I don't know if they are meant to be amazing fighters in the books, but I felt that they were young and inexperienced, so only caused issues as they had twice as many hands as Jaime and Bronn. The whip also meant they could be a pain from further away, but not really cause much damage
I don't know if they are meant to be amazing fighters in the books, but I felt that they were young and inexperienced, so only caused issues as they had twice as many hands as Jaime and Bronn. The whip also meant they could be a pain from further away, but not really cause much damage
I can't believe (yet) that Cersei has come undone. After being able to play the game for the seasons gone, to suddenly be making huge mistakes that could be her undoing, I just can't see it. She has to have an ace up her sleeve, if not then it will be a rather dull demise of her power..
Durzel said:
The usual Tumblr/Twitter meltdowns really.
- Sansa being raped and camera focusing on Theon. WHY SHOULD SHE SUFFER TO ADVANCE A MALE CHARACTER'S DEVELOPMENT??
- Why should she suffer (any more) period.
- People in real life have been raped ipso facto no TV show should show a rape regardless of whether it is thematically and historically apropos. GoT should therefore refrain from showing anything that might trigger anyone at any point.
I find it more remarkable that people watch (and continue to watch) a show that they find repugnant. Is it because they can't reconcile not being able to mould it to what they want it to be? It seems a lot of this st comes from people who just can't stop watching something that triggers them, they have to bend it to their will.
There's a very vocal so-called 'Liberal' faction on social media who are basically emerging as left-leaning analogues of the established stereotype typical right-leaning loony.- Sansa being raped and camera focusing on Theon. WHY SHOULD SHE SUFFER TO ADVANCE A MALE CHARACTER'S DEVELOPMENT??
- Why should she suffer (any more) period.
- People in real life have been raped ipso facto no TV show should show a rape regardless of whether it is thematically and historically apropos. GoT should therefore refrain from showing anything that might trigger anyone at any point.
I find it more remarkable that people watch (and continue to watch) a show that they find repugnant. Is it because they can't reconcile not being able to mould it to what they want it to be? It seems a lot of this s
t comes from people who just can't stop watching something that triggers them, they have to bend it to their will.Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 19th May 14:19
Anyone/thing that remotely conflicts with their view of how things should be in the real world is immediately attacked and decried. They can't even stand to see things which challenge their dogma happen in fiction - much like the crazy fundamentalist Christians who refuse to read the likes of Harry Potter.
Game of Thrones is pretty brilliant anyway but definitely would really appeal to the sort of social media whiner I'm talking about - but of course they can't stand it when things that they don't approve of happen in the story. They can't seem to understand that a dramatic enaction of something does not equal endorsing it or promoting it - in their weird world of entitlement, everything must be 100% in line with the way that they would want it turn out in real life.
Without coming across as a misogynist, it's often the way with female fight scenes...
Boys grow up play (and not play) fighting. The sort of guys who fit the roles for GoT are big, burly blokes for whom physical effort and training is normal. The actresses playing the Sand Snakes were clearly hired for their looks over their fighting ability. I'd imagine there wasn't too much focus on training/choreography when they're likely to have limited screen time.
Look at Serenity or Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon for three female actresses who can do both...
Boys grow up play (and not play) fighting. The sort of guys who fit the roles for GoT are big, burly blokes for whom physical effort and training is normal. The actresses playing the Sand Snakes were clearly hired for their looks over their fighting ability. I'd imagine there wasn't too much focus on training/choreography when they're likely to have limited screen time.
Look at Serenity or Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon for three female actresses who can do both...
I agree the fighting was rubbish but I wondered if that was intended? I thought maybe they are trying to show that these girls think they are badasses when really they aren't at all. They play their little games but Hota with his axe is the real deal. If you look at how Oberon died he basically got cocky and show boated. These girls are his daughters so playing at fighting would be appropriate. Jamie was a great fighter but isn't anymore as Hota said and Bronn has never been great but he is sneaky and cunning.
Maybe I'm giving the production team too much credit but the fights so far have all been extremely well done. They certainly aren't lacking for budget and the crew is the same so it's hard to understand otherwise.
Maybe I'm giving the production team too much credit but the fights so far have all been extremely well done. They certainly aren't lacking for budget and the crew is the same so it's hard to understand otherwise.
smithyithy said:
I can't believe (yet) that Cersei has come undone. After being able to play the game for the seasons gone, to suddenly be making huge mistakes that could be her undoing, I just can't see it. She has to have an ace up her sleeve, if not then it will be a rather dull demise of her power..
She's never been in charge, she's always had the Lannister gang around her. She doesn't that that check to her crazy decisions now.richtea78 said:
I agree the fighting was rubbish but I wondered if that was intended? I thought maybe they are trying to show that these girls think they are badasses when really they aren't at all.
Question for the readers there. I did wonder if it was a spoilt rich girls who have never had a real fight thinking they are better than they are or if it was just the TV. They can do convincing female fighters, Brienne vs the Hound (or anyone) looks convincing but she is a lot bigger than these girls. Another parallel was with the slavers, saying Ser Friendzone could joust/fight as a gentleman but not in the fighting pits totally different style. Real world fighting is dirtier than in a tournament.
richtea78 said:
I agree the fighting was rubbish but I wondered if that was intended? I thought maybe they are trying to show that these girls think they are badasses when really they aren't at all. They play their little games but Hota with his axe is the real deal. If you look at how Oberon died he basically got cocky and show boated. These girls are his daughters so playing at fighting would be appropriate. Jamie was a great fighter but isn't anymore as Hota said and Bronn has never been great but he is sneaky and cunning.
Maybe I'm giving the production team too much credit but the fights so far have all been extremely well done. They certainly aren't lacking for budget and the crew is the same so it's hard to understand otherwise.
I dunno, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to have been pulling their punches. I agree that there have been some decent fight scenes in GoT, Brienne vs The Hound is a high watermark but there have been others.Maybe I'm giving the production team too much credit but the fights so far have all been extremely well done. They certainly aren't lacking for budget and the crew is the same so it's hard to understand otherwise.
That Sand Snakes fight was just straight up bad though. As amusing as that GIF is in isolation I don't think the choreography is the root of the problem. The way these girls had been built up there was an expectation that they would be a serious threat, but the way they were deployed made no sense whatsoever. Not only that but their impact lasted all of a couple of minutes before they were nullified, with no drama. The whole scene played out like 3 kids who were acting up and were caught by their parents.
As has been said already only Dr Bashir has really made Dorne of any interest whatsoever, which speaks volumes given he's immobile.
As for Sansa - I'm not entirely sure what social justice warriors expected to happen when they a) see someone get married on this show given the Red/Purple weddings, b) the established tradition of bedding to consummate marriage and c) Ramsay is the show's current somewhat cartoony bad guy. I sometimes think people derive more pleasure from broadcasting their outrage to anyone who will listen than they actually do from watching the show.
My fear that their going to slow down the series and finish it with a cliffhanger involving Stannis at Winterfell, John in the North and Dani still not having moved from Mereen is growing. If that happens I'll stop watching it. I've heard the books are very much "its coming but not just yet" and I won't tolerate that.
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