Game of Thrones - No spoilers
Discussion
Butter Face said:
Halb said:
What lies?
Didn't Bran say that his dad told him he beat Dayne on combat? He hadn't mentioned that he had been stabbed in the back of the neck first!
t Joffrey was reading the book of the kingsguard and sniping at Jaime for having so little written about him, as opposed to Dayne and Barriston.I can't recall most of the book either, save that we see the Tower of Joy in a delusional poppy fuelled dream of Ned's, so not that reliable, but he does state that he would be dead if not for the actions of Howland, I always thought Howland used poison.
smithyithy said:
(Speculation)
Inside the tower is Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister who was either kidnapped by, or willingly ran away with, the Targaryan Prince Rhaegar, and had a child with him (Jon Show).
Ned finds dead Lyanna, and the Stark/Targaryan baby, and takes it as his own bd to protect it from King Rob etc.
(Speculation)
One baby or two babies?Inside the tower is Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister who was either kidnapped by, or willingly ran away with, the Targaryan Prince Rhaegar, and had a child with him (Jon Show).
Ned finds dead Lyanna, and the Stark/Targaryan baby, and takes it as his own b
d to protect it from King Rob etc.(Speculation)
Ned was with Howland Reed who is Meera's father (the girl with Bran). Meera is the same age as Jon Snow.
irocfan said:
Ooh! I was slightly underwhelmed by Ep3, following on from Ep2.. But the flashbacks are very interesting to see and understand some of the current 'issues' between the factions. Ep4 looks gooood from the preview above!
Woody said:
What was going on with the Ramsey - Carstark - Umber exchange?
Seemed a bit odd that the Umber would slag off Ramsey and the Carstarks for betraying Rob Stark and then handing over Rikon & Osher.
Smalljon is asking the Boltons for help, but as equals, he doesn't care for anyone, he basically sees himself as KIngsSeemed a bit odd that the Umber would slag off Ramsey and the Carstarks for betraying Rob Stark and then handing over Rikon & Osher.
t, but he needs help. The only way he can ask for and get help is by handing over stuff he doesn't care for, his prisoners (which are worth much to Ramsay), he won't bend the knee because he knows it's a meaningless gesture, thus referencing Roose...he is probably also too arrogant by far, he knows he could kill everyone in that room if he wanted to.He's known both the new lords since he was young, and always thought of them as
s...he fears nothing.glazbagun said:
It's funny how little things can give so much enjoyment. I loved Cersei's static smile as she started to realize how much trouble she'd got herself in with the sparrow last season, and this episode- that little gesture Tommen gives to his guards- he's a wet blanket consciously, but subconsciously he's been ordering subservients around all his life without realizing it.
Yes!! My fave bit of the episode in my fave scene...when Smalljon goes, 'mmm', to Ramsay saying his dad was poisoned. It's an acknowledgement, a rebuttal, funny and insightful all in one, it reminds me of arguments on PH. 
There's no point arguing the point with a twerp, just go, 'mmm', and move on. 
ali_kat said:
e too 
(but I don't think it was - Rickon was too 'in charge' of his emotions)
But only 2 still in the story
Yeah, I guess we'll never see Nymeria again...unless she is referenced when we see the Freys again. And SUmmer? Will he be allowed to roam far and wide now Bran is 'safe' in the cave? (but I don't think it was - Rickon was too 'in charge' of his emotions)But only 2 still in the story
ralphrj said:
One baby or two babies?
Ned was with Howland Reed who is Meera's father (the girl with Bran). Meera is the same age as Jon Snow.
Holy moly!Ned was with Howland Reed who is Meera's father (the girl with Bran). Meera is the same age as Jon Snow.
Had no thought of that to be honest, but whether it's just a coincidence of casting, they actually look similar, like they could be related..
As I've been reading into this a lot more since the start of the season and researching some stuff, it only dawned on me recently that if this is all true, Jon would be Daenerys' nephew - I always assumed he'd be her brother due to their ages..
ralphrj said:
One baby or two babies?
Ned was with Howland Reed who is Meera's father (the girl with Bran). Meera is the same age as Jon Snow.
We don't know. That is just Smithyithy's speculation.Ned was with Howland Reed who is Meera's father (the girl with Bran). Meera is the same age as Jon Snow.
What we know...
Inside the tower is Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister who was taken there by Prince Rhaegar Targaryan. Ned & Howland find Lyanna dead.
Ned comes home to Cat with a baby, that he says is his blood.
But as p1doc says. Ned's story of the events at the Tower already differ to what Bran has seen... Although Ned did say that Howland Reed saved his life from Ser Arthur Dayne
Edited by ali_kat on Tuesday 10th May 11:16
irocfan said:
Great stuff...so the Lannisters and the Tyrells are on the same page now? That explains the large trailer earlier, where we see Jaime/Lord Tyrell leading Tyrell soldiers against the church.Also...Sansa is walking into somewhere...from the same big trailer we see her in finery and with Stark banners....she's going to a friend...?
And looks like Littlefinger is taking the Vale army north...?
Halb said:
Yes!! My fave bit of the episode in my fave scene...when Smalljon goes, 'mmm', to Ramsay saying his dad was poisoned. It's an acknowledgement, a rebuttal, funny and insightful all in one, it reminds me of arguments on PH.
There's no point arguing the point with a twerp, just go, 'mmm', and move on. ali_kat said:
e too (but I don't think it was - Rickon was too 'in charge' of his emotions)
But only 2 still in the story
Yeah, I guess we'll never see Nymeria again...unless she is referenced when we see the Freys again. And SUmmer? Will he be allowed to roam far and wide now Bran is 'safe' in the cave? (but I don't think it was - Rickon was too 'in charge' of his emotions)But only 2 still in the story
Nymeria is mentioned in the books still, via Summer & Ghost; as was Grey Wind. It was how Bran found out Rob had died. But the Show isn't going into that, although it has shown Bran warg into Summer
p1doc said:
or wll they as ned's fight was a lie so how much more is a lie......-great fight scene though!
martin
I don't think any lying has gone on.martin
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tower_of_Joy
Halb said:
p1doc said:
or wll they as ned's fight was a lie so how much more is a lie......-great fight scene though!
martin
I don't think any lying has gone on.martin
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tower_of_Joy
He obviously never mentioned Dayne getting a knife through the throat, he says he was told Ned beat him, when he didn't really.
Butter Face said:
https://youtu.be/KBRfThQIZYo?t=4m7s
He obviously never mentioned Dayne getting a knife through the throat, he says he was told Ned beat him, when he didn't really.
I'll beg to differ then, Ned did beat him, because Ned lived. I'm gonna have to go reread the books, but this is entirely in character for me. Ned is clear on him not being alive if it wasn't for Howland. He allows others to draw conclusions, just as with the baby, he states the baby is his blood, and others draw conclusions. Ned isn't a braggart.He obviously never mentioned Dayne getting a knife through the throat, he says he was told Ned beat him, when he didn't really.
I think it ties into how The Hound also sees through the false mystique of the knight. Being alive to carry out ones duties should be placed above 'honour,' which is what Ned agrees to do way way back in S1E9.
Yeah Ned said he'd have died if not for Reed. Funny that one poster pictured him being poisoned wheras in my head they were the last three standing and Reed blocked a blow that was meant for Stark. So Ned not lying, but sure kept that backstab quiet!
I like the theory on Jon having a twin. Can you imagine if Dany catches greyscale and it's the three illigitimate Targs who end up getting the dragons.
Was also thinking of all the What If's- just like the attempt to assassinate Hitler. What if Selmy had beaten Rhaegar? The whole mess wouldn't have started! What if that one dumb footsoldier in S1 hadn't stabbed Ned when he was already losing to Jamie? He'd still be dead, but Robert would probably be on the throne and the war of the Five kings would have been avoided! So many possibilities.
I like the theory on Jon having a twin. Can you imagine if Dany catches greyscale and it's the three illigitimate Targs who end up getting the dragons.
Was also thinking of all the What If's- just like the attempt to assassinate Hitler. What if Selmy had beaten Rhaegar? The whole mess wouldn't have started! What if that one dumb footsoldier in S1 hadn't stabbed Ned when he was already losing to Jamie? He'd still be dead, but Robert would probably be on the throne and the war of the Five kings would have been avoided! So many possibilities.
Halb said:
Butter Face said:
https://youtu.be/KBRfThQIZYo?t=4m7s
He obviously never mentioned Dayne getting a knife through the throat, he says he was told Ned beat him, when he didn't really.
I'll beg to differ then, Ned did beat him, because Ned lived. I'm gonna have to go reread the books, but this is entirely in character for me. Ned is clear on him not being alive if it wasn't for Howland. He allows others to draw conclusions, just as with the baby, he states the baby is his blood, and others draw conclusions. Ned isn't a braggart.He obviously never mentioned Dayne getting a knife through the throat, he says he was told Ned beat him, when he didn't really.
I think it ties into how The Hound also sees through the false mystique of the knight. Being alive to carry out ones duties should be placed above 'honour,' which is what Ned agrees to do way way back in S1E9.
Butter Face said:
We haven't actually heard Ned recounting the story so don't know exactly how he told it...
In the books (A Clash of Kings) when we first meet Jojen & Meera it's at a Harvest feast held by Bran when they come to renew House Reed's fealty to the King in the North (Rob). Bran recalls his father telling him the Kingsguard were once a shining example, and the finest knight he ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who would have killed him but for Howland Reed. His father became sad at that and spoke no further, but now Bran wishes he had asked what he meant.
have them on the kindle at the moment
Butter Face said:
https://youtu.be/KBRfThQIZYo?t=4m7s
He obviously never mentioned Dayne getting a knife through the throat, he says he was told Ned beat him, when he didn't really.
He didn't even say he was told he beat him. There's no one left standing but them two, it's a fight to the death and Brandon is one of the results of his father not dying that day. So Brandon pulls the conclusion his father surely must've beaten him.He obviously never mentioned Dayne getting a knife through the throat, he says he was told Ned beat him, when he didn't really.
I do 'get' the Ned character a bit, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to attack one guy with 4 without any problems, then when he gets stabbed from behind he goes all nobel on him.
People change with age, too. Ned was young during the rebellion and was never supposed to be the responsible lord of winterfell at all until his Dad & big brother were murdered and his Sister kidnapped.
His conscience and sense of responsibility probably changed a lot as he kept his sisters promise, became a father/judge/warden of the North, etc. I love how all of the characters are flawed. Caitlyn was a total lady in some ways and a complete bh in others.
Ned was a stickler for Honor and trying to raise his kids right, but he had the luxury of total authority back home. Once he was in the real world, his self righteousness and binary views left him and his children at a disadvantage.
His conscience and sense of responsibility probably changed a lot as he kept his sisters promise, became a father/judge/warden of the North, etc. I love how all of the characters are flawed. Caitlyn was a total lady in some ways and a complete b
h in others.Ned was a stickler for Honor and trying to raise his kids right, but he had the luxury of total authority back home. Once he was in the real world, his self righteousness and binary views left him and his children at a disadvantage.
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