Game of Thrones - No spoilers

[Sway]

She's got control over the king... Far more than the Sparrow!

Really annoys me how Mace Tyrell is portrayed in the show - it's completely unbelievable that such an ineffective head of House could achieve marriage into the monarchy, one of the richest estates in the 'world', etc.

That ineffective 'rousing speech' showed that his troops really don't respect him. That could play put appropriately if they 'turn', but assuming they stay loyal to the Tyrells it's ridiculous to suggest they'd willingly fight for someone they don't like/respect.

[FourWheelDrift]

But if Tommen is murdered childless who's the next legitimate heir? Renly is dead and had no children so no Tyrrell heir, if you go back to Stannis's line through his wife you end up with the Tarleys, if you go back to Robert's parents you end up with the Targaryens, Steffon Baratheon (Robert's father) was the son of Rhaelle Targaryen and Ormund Baratheon.

So it's either King Samwell or Queen Daenerys.

[GarryDK]

FourWheelDrift said:

So it's either King Samwell or Queen Daenerys.

[FourWheelDrift]

GarryDK said:

FourWheelDrift said:

So it's either King Samwell or Queen Daenerys.

Stannis's wife Selyse's father is Ryam Florent, his older brother is Alester Florent, his daughter Melessa married Randyll Tarley, his only surviving son in Samwell. There are no Lannister heirs through Cersei, Tyrion or Jamie, Uncle Kevan's only surviving son after Lord Karstark killed the other two is a religious nut under the power of the High Sparrow.

Stranger things have happened

[motorizer]

Sway said:

Really annoys me how Mace Tyrell is portrayed in the show - it's completely unbelievable that such an ineffective head of House could achieve marriage into the monarchy, one of the richest estates in the 'world', etc.

That ineffective 'rousing speech' showed that his troops really don't respect him. That could play put appropriately if they 'turn', but assuming they stay loyal to the Tyrells it's ridiculous to suggest they'd willingly fight for someone they don't like/respect.

I thought it was plausible that an incompetent buffon could end up in a position of power if you just leave it to the lottery of birthright. He probably just didn't have a dad like Randall Tarly. The only real surprise is that no one has stabbed him in the back, but I think it suits the Lannisters to have an idiot at the head of the Tyrellls, I reckon the troops are more loyal to Marge and Oleanna anyway, they'd have probably cheered a Margery speech.

[ZesPak]

Sway said:

Really annoys me how Mace Tyrell is portrayed in the show - it's completely unbelievable that such an ineffective head of House could achieve marriage into the monarchy, one of the richest estates in the 'world', etc.

I understood that it was like in the books, with Olenna basically ruling the house. Much like Tywin with the Lannisters (with Cersei not half as smart as she thinks she is, Tyrion exiled and Jamie no ambition to do so).

[Sway]

motorizer said:

Sway said:

Really annoys me how Mace Tyrell is portrayed in the show - it's completely unbelievable that such an ineffective head of House could achieve marriage into the monarchy, one of the richest estates in the 'world', etc.

That ineffective 'rousing speech' showed that his troops really don't respect him. That could play put appropriately if they 'turn', but assuming they stay loyal to the Tyrells it's ridiculous to suggest they'd willingly fight for someone they don't like/respect.

I thought it was plausible that an incompetent buffon could end up in a position of power if you just leave it to the lottery of birthright. He probably just didn't have a dad like Randall Tarly. The only real surprise is that no one has stabbed him in the back, but I think it suits the Lannisters to have an idiot at the head of the Tyrellls, I reckon the troops are more loyal to Marge and Oleanna anyway, they'd have probably cheered a Margery speech.

I understand the ascension of an incompetent, but he's been head for quite some time - and has grown the influence, wealth and power.

That's not so believable, even taking Oleanna's force of nature into account.

[GarryDK]

FourWheelDrift said:

Stannis's wife Selyse's father is Ryam Florent, his older brother is Alester Florent, his daughter Melessa married Randyll Tarley, his only surviving son in Samwell. There are no Lannister heirs through Cersei, Tyrion or Jamie, Uncle Kevan's only surviving son after Lord Karstark killed the other two is a religious nut under the power of the High Sparrow.

Stranger things have happened

Samwell Tarley is a man of the nights watch and therefore cannot have a claim.

[FourWheelDrift]

It is possible for someone to leave the Night's Watch without execution, so long as it is with the ruling monarch's approval, Stannis even though not the ruling monarch offer Jon Snow the same deal. And he's already running around proclaiming to be a father so that's another vow broken to go along with the nookie night he spent with Gilly.

King Samwell I and Queen Gilly

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Wednesday 1st June 14:50

[motorizer]

GarryDK said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Stannis's wife Selyse's father is Ryam Florent, his older brother is Alester Florent, his daughter Melessa married Randyll Tarley, his only surviving son in Samwell. There are no Lannister heirs through Cersei, Tyrion or Jamie, Uncle Kevan's only surviving son after Lord Karstark killed the other two is a religious nut under the power of the High Sparrow.

Stranger things have happened

Samwell Tarley is a man of the nights watch and therefore cannot have a claim.

There might not be a nights watch much longer......

[glazbagun]

I'm not sure the Nights Watch will even exist in a seasons time. They barely held the wall against some wildlings that Stannis' merc army smashed, how are they going to survive the White Walkers?

[GarryDK]

FourWheelDrift said:

It is possible for someone to leave the Night's Watch without execution, so long as it is with the ruling monarch's approval, Stannis even though not the ruling monarch offer Jon Snow the same deal.

But if there was no ruling monarch there would be no one to release him from his duties.

It would have to be one of the heads of houses.

Tully
Bolton
Lanister
Greyjoy
etc

Which would mean Randyll Tarly would get there before Sam

[Halb]

Ignoring the Night's Watch bit...the fact that Sam Tarly is the next in line to the throne is mental.


Mace being the lord is plausible enough. Tywin's dad was a silly old duffer too, and the Lannister name was woopsy for years, which helped form Tywin into a piece of flint, and eradicate the Reins in Castermere, it was a 'don't fk with us' message after his softy father. The Reach is rich because it's the breadbasket of the continent, and it's strong because Ollena is a master diplomat and the strength of it's two main supporting houses, the Tarlys who have one of the top three generals leading it, and the Hightowers, who own the citadel, home of all knowledge.

[FourWheelDrift]

GarryDK said:

But if there was no ruling monarch there would be no one to release him from his duties.

It would have to be one of the heads of houses.

Tully
Bolton
Lanister
Greyjoy
etc

Which would mean Randyll Tarly would get there before Sam

During the short reign of King Randyll he would bite his tongue and legitimise his son as his heir, or feel the pointy end of his own Valyrian sword Heartsbane. Or both, one very soon after the other.

GRR Martin screws with our heads.

[Halb]

Randyll isn't in line is he, he married into the line?

[mandos_01]

Halb said:

Ignoring the Night's Watch bit...the fact that Sam Tarly is the next in line to the throne is mental.


Mace being the lord is plausible enough. Tywin's dad was a silly old duffer too, and the Lannister name was woopsy for years, which helped form Tywin into a piece of flint, and eradicate the Reins in Castermere, it was a 'don't fk with us' message after his softy father. The Reach is rich because it's the breadbasket of the continent, and it's strong because Ollena is a master diplomat and the strength of it's two main supporting houses, the Tarlys who have one of the top three generals leading it, and the Hightowers, who own the citadel, home of all knowledge.

BIB - Is that true? I thought he was just a miserable git who had a grand old hall as a home.

[ali_kat]

Halb said:

Randyll isn't in line is he, he married into the line?

Correct

FourWheelDrift said:

Stannis's wife Selyse's father is Ryam Florent, his older brother is Alester Florent, his daughter Melessa married Randyll Tarley, his only surviving son in Samwell.

He's not the only son though

Edited by ali_kat on Wednesday 1st June 15:03

[Halb]

mandos_01 said:

BIB - Is that true? I thought he was just a miserable git who had a grand old hall as a home.

Yip, the show acknowledged this when Stannis (one of the best) told Sam he respected his father.

From the books, Randyll is responsible for many victories, and losses not being as bad as they could have been.

[GarryDK]

Halb said:

Randyll isn't in line is he, he married into the line?

I dont think that would matter,

Think marrying Daenerys , it would still make you king etc. or little finger marrying lysa arryn becoming lord of the vale.

[ali_kat]

GarryDK said:

Halb said:

Randyll isn't in line is he, he married into the line?

I dont think that would matter,

Think marrying Daenerys , it would still make you king etc. or little finger marrying lysa arryn becoming lord of the vale.

Littlefinger didn't become Lord of the Vale, Robin is Lord of the Vale

Women don't inherit in Westeros, that is one of the major plot points from Dorne where they do.