Chris Huhne... going soon?
Discussion
Milky Joe said:
Derek Smith said:
It should not be a question of 'chances'. If someone exceeds a speed limit without any other circumstance then a fine is ample.
What fine would you propose?My argument is that disqualification is an unreasonable punishment and out of all relation to the offence. Four parking fines and you lose your job? Good idea? It might stop breaches of the parking regulations, but is it reasonable.
Going over the speed limit is not, of itself, dangerous.
Speeding has been hit whit a double whammy: a lowering of the prosecution threshold, from the ACPO guidelines to 10% + 0 mph in certain cases. +10mph used to be the limit. On top of that we have the proliferation of enforcement. I was trying to work out a credible multiplier and could not. However, the increase in speed cameras means that although speeds have dropped on non dual carriageway roads, and by a substantial amount, many more drivers are being disqualified, a considerable penalty, and one that is out of proportion to the offence.
Derek Smith said:
The same sort of fine as other breaches of regulations.
My argument is that disqualification is an unreasonable punishment and out of all relation to the offence. Four parking fines and you lose your job? Good idea? It might stop breaches of the parking regulations, but is it reasonable.
Going over the speed limit is not, of itself, dangerous.
Speeding has been hit whit a double whammy: a lowering of the prosecution threshold, from the ACPO guidelines to 10% + 0 mph in certain cases. +10mph used to be the limit. On top of that we have the proliferation of enforcement. I was trying to work out a credible multiplier and could not. However, the increase in speed cameras means that although speeds have dropped on non dual carriageway roads, and by a substantial amount, many more drivers are being disqualified, a considerable penalty, and one that is out of proportion to the offence.
Slightly off topic but to make an observation about Derek's comment.My argument is that disqualification is an unreasonable punishment and out of all relation to the offence. Four parking fines and you lose your job? Good idea? It might stop breaches of the parking regulations, but is it reasonable.
Going over the speed limit is not, of itself, dangerous.
Speeding has been hit whit a double whammy: a lowering of the prosecution threshold, from the ACPO guidelines to 10% + 0 mph in certain cases. +10mph used to be the limit. On top of that we have the proliferation of enforcement. I was trying to work out a credible multiplier and could not. However, the increase in speed cameras means that although speeds have dropped on non dual carriageway roads, and by a substantial amount, many more drivers are being disqualified, a considerable penalty, and one that is out of proportion to the offence.
Speed on non-dial carriageways (and some DC's as well!) seem to have dropped beacuse of changes other than the threat of cameras.
These might include;
1. Overtaking has become as unacceptable as murder in the public consciousness.
1.1. Few people know (or care to know) how to overtake anymore.
1.2. As a consequence people now sit in 'comfort' in endless tails of traffic, almost bumper to bumper moving at 35 mph everywhere.
1.3. If a road offers overtaking potential someone will find an unused right of way footpath the crosses the road at that point and use it as an excuse to install a pedestrian refuge that never sees footfall. (Unless they have a budget for a camera in which case the camera will take precedence over the refuge.)
2. You only need one speed restricted vehicle (and there are many now with 50 limited tachos or similar) to introduce an effective limit for other traffic, partly due to 1.* above.
3. Regulations have been introduced (not all related to Road Use Law) to ensure that the effects of 2 proliferate.
4. In the absence of deliberately speed controlled vehicles there will always be someone around on a non-urgent and non-business journey who will drive at between 5 and 10mph below the posted speed limit for the section of road.
5. Various county authorities have seen fit to enforce 40 or 50 limits (and extend 30 limits) on roads that rarely need the restriction. These work especially well with 2 and 3 above.
5. Mobile phones and the readiness of people not to drive and phone/text at the same time. So they stop pretty much anywhere without a yellow line and chat away oblivious to the effect that has on other road users.
6. The concepts of making good lines of sight available at junctions have been abandoned, indeed reversed, on the basis that people are more cautious if they can't readily see what level of danger exists. This may be true and may well reduce overall progress and increase journey times but that alone is not necessarily a good thing for Road Safety.
7 - 100. too far outside the subject of this topic to include unless someone want to put forward an argument that prosecution for PCoJ for even the most trivial of technical "crimes" might have an effect for the greater on good on the judgement of those who might commit serious PCoJ offences (assuming the PCoJ as written is a good Law), in which case I guess we could discuss the degree of effect that might result or that it puts the "crime" into the domain of public awareness. Does publicity mean that people will be less likely to commit a PCoJ error? Who knows?
LongQ said:
Good stuff
Various governments have conspired to diminish competence and scare the average driver to the point that he/she is incompetent, hesitant and lacking confidence.Well done, HMG, another monumental cock up.
Blair's lot and the DfT managed to take this fiasco to new heights of stupidity.
More 'good' news.
Chris Huhne is tipped to replace Nick Clegg as Liberal Democrat leader if he wins a criminal case being brought against him, senior party figures claimed last night. They say the former Energy Secretary would be the frontrunner to rescue the Lib Dems from ‘meltdown’ at the next General Election if Mr Clegg fails to halt the party’s alarming poll slide.
Last night a LibDim MP described the scenario as a nighmare for Clegg
Chris Huhne is tipped to replace Nick Clegg as Liberal Democrat leader if he wins a criminal case being brought against him, senior party figures claimed last night. They say the former Energy Secretary would be the frontrunner to rescue the Lib Dems from ‘meltdown’ at the next General Election if Mr Clegg fails to halt the party’s alarming poll slide.
Last night a LibDim MP described the scenario as a nighmare for Clegg
k offIs it OK to propose that there is a movement that if someone did something, with a fair degree of certainty but don't get prosecuted succesfully (I don't mena a 'not guilty' verdict) in that they get off on a technicality - or clever lawyering, then we can still call them guilty and a crook?
How about a new (as in Scotland) verdict being 'unproven' vs 'not guilty'? Pretty clear that we would all know what that meant???
ps - Not sure if I am meant to add that I simply put this on this particular thread as it was 'convenient' and in no way implies that Huhne is a lying cheating snake. In fact, I may move it to a different thread altogether so that there is no confusion....
How about a new (as in Scotland) verdict being 'unproven' vs 'not guilty'? Pretty clear that we would all know what that meant???
ps - Not sure if I am meant to add that I simply put this on this particular thread as it was 'convenient' and in no way implies that Huhne is a lying cheating snake. In fact, I may move it to a different thread altogether so that there is no confusion....
Slaav said:
ps - Not sure if I am meant to add that I simply put this on this particular thread as it was 'convenient' and in no way implies that Huhne is a lying cheating snake. In fact, I may move it to a different thread altogether so that there is no confusion....
Fully understood. After all it is quite obvious that compared with many of his peers Mr. Huhne is an entirely upstanding member of the populace.There really are many others living off the public purse who should be facing the wrath of the people through the justice system ahead of Mr. Huhne. That they are not tells us much about the system as a whole and especially that part that relates to what we like to think of as the "fair" system of legal diligence in our society.
I am coming to the conclusion that most people know this and think it unacceptable. It may take a while longer before they start to realise that everyone else feels the same way thus allowing them to feel justified in pushing and maybe even becoming involved with observable protests. In the streets, maybe, rather than behind their front doors.
mybrainhurts said:
Jovial Joe said:
powerstroke said:
I'm sure the answer is a guillotine ....
Lamp post and piano wire.would we have the time?? but we
could reserve the slower methods for the worst ones like huhne
hidetheelephants said:
powerstroke said:
My thinking was there are so many who need it!!
would we have the time?? but we
could reserve the slower methods for the worst ones like huhne
Drax can burn biomass these days, so they don't even need to be killed, just stunned and dumped on the conveyor.would we have the time?? but we
could reserve the slower methods for the worst ones like huhne
powerstroke said:
mybrainhurts said:
Jovial Joe said:
powerstroke said:
I'm sure the answer is a guillotine ....
Lamp post and piano wire.would we have the time?? but we
could reserve the slower methods for the worst ones like huhne
Still it's pretty easy to imagine it being the noisome Huhne and Trimingham.
Merry Christmas
Jovial Joe said:
powerstroke said:
mybrainhurts said:
Jovial Joe said:
powerstroke said:
I'm sure the answer is a guillotine ....
Lamp post and piano wire.would we have the time?? but we
could reserve the slower methods for the worst ones like huhne
Still it's pretty easy to imagine it being the noisome Huhne and Trimingham.
Merry Christmas
Mind you, seeing Huhne hanging from one of the wind turbines he helped foist on us would cheer my Christmas I have to admit.
FiF said:
hidetheelephants said:
powerstroke said:
My thinking was there are so many who need it!!
would we have the time?? but we
could reserve the slower methods for the worst ones like huhne
Drax can burn biomass these days, so they don't even need to be killed, just stunned and dumped on the conveyor.would we have the time?? but we
could reserve the slower methods for the worst ones like huhne
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