Major explosion/bomb in Oslo
Discussion
whoami said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
Exactly what he wanted.
Next up will be an appeal, not against the conviction but for the right for him to be referred to in all court, prison and legal documents as a political prisoner.
If his cell hasn't got internet access he will be appealling for the right to have that as well.
Unless some prison guards 'accidently' hang him on a quiet New Years Eve there will be a lot more reprecussions from both Brevilks actions and today's verdict. The result of either a suspected genuine or a false flag Islamist event in Norway will led to some very worrying times for that country and possibly the whole of Europe.
I would imagine that the various interested parties have already made note of this.
He's already stated that he will not appeal.Next up will be an appeal, not against the conviction but for the right for him to be referred to in all court, prison and legal documents as a political prisoner.
If his cell hasn't got internet access he will be appealling for the right to have that as well.
Unless some prison guards 'accidently' hang him on a quiet New Years Eve there will be a lot more reprecussions from both Brevilks actions and today's verdict. The result of either a suspected genuine or a false flag Islamist event in Norway will led to some very worrying times for that country and possibly the whole of Europe.
I would imagine that the various interested parties have already made note of this.
It's also being reported that he is close to finishing part two of his manifesto and wants to publish it. I'm guessing that he will fight for his right to do that too.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Exactly what he wanted.
It's also the correct verdict; finding him insane would have been a blatant fix.Whether we like it or not the man is a player and has gone to considerable efforts to ensure that he remains as such.
What is Norway to do? It cannot go outwith its law without compromising the very integrity Breivik seeks to attack just as it cannot perpetrate the fiction required to declare him insane.
It puts him where he can do no harm and treats him decently because it is better than he is.
caraddict said:
Relax guys, they know exactly what the asshole did and do not intend to let him out that easily. The depth of the scar he brought on Norway is simply to deep to be healed after 21 years. It's not like 9/11 is forgotten after 11 years.
That is almost a nonsensical answer based on emotion. The whole point of the so-called civilised justice system is to take emotion out of decisions. In 21 years if he is psychological normal and is not threatening to kill people why wouldn't he be freed?thehawk said:
caraddict said:
Relax guys, they know exactly what the asshole did and do not intend to let him out that easily. The depth of the scar he brought on Norway is simply to deep to be healed after 21 years. It's not like 9/11 is forgotten after 11 years.
That is almost a nonsensical answer based on emotion. The whole point of the so-called civilised justice system is to take emotion out of decisions. In 21 years if he is psychological normal and is not threatening to kill people why wouldn't he be freed?The point of the judicial system is not to remove emotion. It is to serve the law, and to serve justice, which may or may not include rationality. It includes the making of examples, and the wish to punish people, even devoid of intention to rehabilitate them.
Many serial killers are never freed. The politics of the situation mean courts would take into account the public interest in its entirety, even if it means rationality takes second place. ; look at the case of peter sutcliffe for example. Purely mentally ill, completely better with treatment, and yet no hope of ever being let out because the nation simply couldn't stomach it.
Just finished reading One Of Us by Asne Seierstad, which is an almost forensic examination of the events of that day and an attempt to profile and perhaps to a certain extent, understand Breivik.
Its not often that you agree with the "quotes" on a books cover but I have to say that it does read a little like The Day Of The Jackal, in that it builds your empathy to people who you know that during the final event will probably die but its like that train light at the end of the tunnel coming towards you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. A few of Toads observations.
If you believe in how much your parents attitudes towards you can f
k up your future life, then this will certainly add fuel to your fire. Breiviks father was clearly a selfish bd of the highest order and does not seem to have psychologically supported his son in any shape of form especially after he divorced Breiviks mum. Apart from one phone call, a few years before the event, he never contacted his son after he got arrested for graffiti tagging.
His mother was clearly not quite right from the get go and this was reported by social services when she was attempting to bring him up on her own. She was either smothering him with love (to the extent of them sleeping in the same bed when he was a teenager.) or being physically and mentally abusive to him. After his failures at living an independent life with other people, she became obsessed with making him happy and getting him as dependant on her as possible to the extent that she still couldn't believe that he committed the massacre til the day she died.
Never knew before that Breivik basically spent five years in a small room in his mothers flat playing World Of Warcraft continuously. FIVE years.
Breivik has been obsessed throughout his life at trying to be the best something, anything. Starting with graffiti tagging, then running his own share dealing business and finally Warcraft he was always fliting between one new interest to another. He tried to become a Mason for years believing it would grant him the keys to business success but by the time he had been accepted, Warcraft had sucked him in so much that even though he had called in huge favours from members of his extended family he essentially no longer cared. (except to include some their rituals into his ridiculous manifesto and dress in borrowed regalia for his 'publicity' photos.) And of course, when Warcraft bored him, his butterfly landed on extreme right wing politics.
When it came to the actual event, the Norwegian authorities reactions to it were very poor. Police helicopters that were ready but all the crew were on holiday, messages about Breiviks vehicle speeding to towards the island from Oslo that were written on a post note and left on a superiors desk, the almost comical attempts of the SWAT team to get from the shore to the island when they could hear "bang. bang. bang." drifting across the lake. No government ministers, police chiefs or security officers resigned after the event.
After the event the attempts of the AUF (the political party that organise the childrens summer camp.) to take very little responsibility in the days events (Was there ever an evacuation plan in place for any emergency? Was any form of security assessment ever made?) and even started planning to re-build the islands facilities less than a year after the event. Some of those who helped organise events on the island were promoted within the party and have ended up as advisors to government ministers
Then there is the actual trial, when despite the fact that he was clearly behaving in a disturbed way in the courtroom, he was found psychologically sound and therefore in his world view a terrorist and not a madman. Then after the trial his attempts to make sure he had internet access in order to spread his poison to the world.
Finally, his extraordinary replies to Seierstad's requests for an interview. With the culture of serial killers spread widely through the media & movies, which then get sunk into the unconscious culture so that even when we see comedy parodies of horror movies that are based on real horrible events we don't even blink, it becomes very difficult to read these notes without thinking about Hannibal Lecter. But even without these possible influences, they are chilling in the extreme.
As a final thought, I mentioned this is a forensic examination of the events. The descriptions of the actual killings and the effects of modern weaponry & explosives on people is graphic in the extreme and certainly not for the faint hearted.
A fascinating, horrible read.
Its not often that you agree with the "quotes" on a books cover but I have to say that it does read a little like The Day Of The Jackal, in that it builds your empathy to people who you know that during the final event will probably die but its like that train light at the end of the tunnel coming towards you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. A few of Toads observations.
If you believe in how much your parents attitudes towards you can f
k up your future life, then this will certainly add fuel to your fire. Breiviks father was clearly a selfish bd of the highest order and does not seem to have psychologically supported his son in any shape of form especially after he divorced Breiviks mum. Apart from one phone call, a few years before the event, he never contacted his son after he got arrested for graffiti tagging.His mother was clearly not quite right from the get go and this was reported by social services when she was attempting to bring him up on her own. She was either smothering him with love (to the extent of them sleeping in the same bed when he was a teenager.) or being physically and mentally abusive to him. After his failures at living an independent life with other people, she became obsessed with making him happy and getting him as dependant on her as possible to the extent that she still couldn't believe that he committed the massacre til the day she died.
Never knew before that Breivik basically spent five years in a small room in his mothers flat playing World Of Warcraft continuously. FIVE years.
Breivik has been obsessed throughout his life at trying to be the best something, anything. Starting with graffiti tagging, then running his own share dealing business and finally Warcraft he was always fliting between one new interest to another. He tried to become a Mason for years believing it would grant him the keys to business success but by the time he had been accepted, Warcraft had sucked him in so much that even though he had called in huge favours from members of his extended family he essentially no longer cared. (except to include some their rituals into his ridiculous manifesto and dress in borrowed regalia for his 'publicity' photos.) And of course, when Warcraft bored him, his butterfly landed on extreme right wing politics.
When it came to the actual event, the Norwegian authorities reactions to it were very poor. Police helicopters that were ready but all the crew were on holiday, messages about Breiviks vehicle speeding to towards the island from Oslo that were written on a post note and left on a superiors desk, the almost comical attempts of the SWAT team to get from the shore to the island when they could hear "bang. bang. bang." drifting across the lake. No government ministers, police chiefs or security officers resigned after the event.
After the event the attempts of the AUF (the political party that organise the childrens summer camp.) to take very little responsibility in the days events (Was there ever an evacuation plan in place for any emergency? Was any form of security assessment ever made?) and even started planning to re-build the islands facilities less than a year after the event. Some of those who helped organise events on the island were promoted within the party and have ended up as advisors to government ministers
Then there is the actual trial, when despite the fact that he was clearly behaving in a disturbed way in the courtroom, he was found psychologically sound and therefore in his world view a terrorist and not a madman. Then after the trial his attempts to make sure he had internet access in order to spread his poison to the world.
Finally, his extraordinary replies to Seierstad's requests for an interview. With the culture of serial killers spread widely through the media & movies, which then get sunk into the unconscious culture so that even when we see comedy parodies of horror movies that are based on real horrible events we don't even blink, it becomes very difficult to read these notes without thinking about Hannibal Lecter. But even without these possible influences, they are chilling in the extreme.
As a final thought, I mentioned this is a forensic examination of the events. The descriptions of the actual killings and the effects of modern weaponry & explosives on people is graphic in the extreme and certainly not for the faint hearted.
A fascinating, horrible read.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Wednesday 27th July 10:33
Thanks for posting that! One of my colleagues had a relationship to the events.
Funny, I've lived in Norway for years now and I recognise many of the societal, official and cultural issues that you mention about half way through your post. These are endemic in a society that can only be described as 'weird'.
I came here expecting it to be somewhere like the UK, with a funny language and some slight nuances. I wasn't prepared either for the massive differences or viewpoints. Almost every aspect of society is different and not really what is portrayed to the outside world.
Funny, I've lived in Norway for years now and I recognise many of the societal, official and cultural issues that you mention about half way through your post. These are endemic in a society that can only be described as 'weird'.
I came here expecting it to be somewhere like the UK, with a funny language and some slight nuances. I wasn't prepared either for the massive differences or viewpoints. Almost every aspect of society is different and not really what is portrayed to the outside world.
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