Tube drivers paid extra £1800 not to strike during Olympics

[sidicks]

martin84 said:

The second article is from last year but does provide decent background.

This is a tricky one in truth, I accept the argument that they're essentially trying to cynically cash in. On the other hand, if TFL has already given train and rail staff extra money for essentially doing nothing, then surely the bus drivers - and the union they belong to - would be stupid to not demand the same?

Edited by martin84 on Saturday 9th June 23:23

Ah, the old 'two wrongs make a right' argument....

[TheDiplomat]

I expect Boris to announce the Tube will become fully automated after the Olympic games, which will hopefully seriously fking anger Bob Crow and the arrogant, greedy Tube drivers. They have absolutely no excuse for such demands, especially as their starting salary is c. £45,000.

[whoami]

TheDiplomat said:

I expect Boris to announce the Tube will become fully automated after the Olympic games, which will hopefully seriously fking anger Bob Crow and the arrogant, greedy Tube drivers. They have absolutely no excuse for such demands, especially as their starting salary is c. £45,000.

Here's hoping

[martin84]

sidicks said:

Ah, the old 'two wrongs make a right' argument....

A) Who gets to decide whether what they're doing is 'wrong' or not? You? Me? The bloke next door? Just because you've declared its wrong doesn't mean it is.

B) What do you expect them to do? They've seen most other transport sector's get bonus payments, do you expect them to sit there and go 'oh thats fine we dont want any' or something to that effect?

[mph1977]

martin84 said:

turbobloke said:

Not totally O/T though - now bus drivers are at it, as promised.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156848/Lo...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/bus-drivers-dem...

The second article is from last year but does provide decent background.

This is a tricky one in truth, I accept the argument that they're essentially trying to cynically cash in. On the other hand, if TFL has already given train and rail staff extra money for essentially doing nothing, then surely the bus drivers - and the union they belong to - would be stupid to not demand the same?

Edited by martin84 on Saturday 9th June 23:23

except 'scab buses' using vehicles and drivers from outside the capital would be much easier to arrange ... between dealers and the big sewrvice bus operators plus the likes of Fraser Eagle i'm sure hundreds if not thousands of vehicles could be rustled up even without touching on the use of agency drivers and the MoD's fleet of 'blow-me-up-buses'

this was why the govt used to use the 'green goddess' fire appliances for strike cover as the county vehicles could be left behind the picket lines and wouldn't be 'blacked' by crews until they had been fully inspected if used by 'scabs'

[Marquis Rex]

Useless English overpaid Tube and bus drivers. Absolutely useless overpaid workshy scum!


Meanwhile English engineers are paid 25-28K and are supposed to be chuffed about it.

The Uk really is land of the lazy unionised blue collar workshy fkwitts (witness technicians and plumbers calling themselves engineers etc), chav scum bottom feeder parasites, football hooligans or bankers that just pass money around getting overpaid!

Glad I'm out of that mad house. *takes deep breath*

[martin84]

Anybody who thinks this is a big deal has obviously never lived through/never read about/forgotten the winter of discontent, 1979.

Now THAT was a strike.

[GavinPearson]

It would be best to just pay the money and get through the Olympics.

It would then be prudent to train returning servicemen how to drive buses and tube trains so that the next time there is a strike that service can continue and the only result is a loss of union funds and strikers feeling the pinch.

[0a]

martin84 said:

Anybody who thinks this is a big deal has obviously never lived through/never read about/forgotten the winter of discontent, 1979.

Now THAT was a strike.

Exactly: given the scale, it's easy to take a firm line and remove any unionised drivers and replace them with new staff before the Olympics.

I bet we could do it if we put our collective minds to it.

[martin84]

In general though what are they really doing wrong? Their argument is that the transport network will be a lot busier than usual and TfL will make significantly larger amounts of money than usual as a result. The Unions members believe they should get a slice of that extra Olympic pie, it shouldn't all go to TfL. Criticise the threat to strike as much as you like but withdrawl of their labour is their biggest bargaining tool and always has been.

TfL have already signed off on deals giving transport workers extra pay for the same work over the Olympics, totalling £27million. These bus drivers think they should get some extra as well, if everybody else is going to get it. Fair point. You can say 'two wrongs dont make a right' but what do you expect the bus drivers to do? If they don't demand more and that £27million goes to all the other workers then the upshot is the bus drivers may end up with a word of praise from Boris Johnson but they wont get any money. The rail/tube etc staff will share £27million and be quite happy though.

[heebeegeetee]

Good god. Working people expecting to earn money out of the Olympics, whatever next?

Everyone knows that the Olympics is for the ruling classes. No working people should expect to either earn from or be able to afford to attend any of the games or ceremonies.

It's bad enough that the entire circus cannot be contained within London. It's too much to expect the ruling classes to venture north of Watford.

[martin84]

Tongue in cheek of course but unfortunately not far wrong.

They said these would be 'games for all the people' and 'olympics for all of the UK, not just London' yet we're now in pathetic situations where Little Chef have to change the name of their breakfast and a kebab shop owner is threatened with legal action over using the word olympic, despite him calling his cafe that since long before the olympics came to town.

What did one of the newspapers call these games? The £13billion taxpayer funded advertising parade for some of the worlds worst companies?

[GavinPearson]

martin84 said:

In general though what are they really doing wrong? Their argument is that the transport network will be a lot busier than usual and TfL will make significantly larger amounts of money than usual as a result. The Unions members believe they should get a slice of that extra Olympic pie, it shouldn't all go to TfL. Criticise the threat to strike as much as you like but withdrawl of their labour is their biggest bargaining tool and always has been.

TfL have already signed off on deals giving transport workers extra pay for the same work over the Olympics, totalling £27million. These bus drivers think they should get some extra as well, if everybody else is going to get it. Fair point. You can say 'two wrongs dont make a right' but what do you expect the bus drivers to do? If they don't demand more and that £27million goes to all the other workers then the upshot is the bus drivers may end up with a word of praise from Boris Johnson but they wont get any money. The rail/tube etc staff will share £27million and be quite happy though.

It's not wrong for the workers to want a better lifestyle, it's not wrong to strike for it provided it's done legally.

On the flip side it's not wrong for the general public to resent being held to ransom and to ask for the strike to be broken.

The tube drivers may get their share of £27million and end up with nothing, if this were to go anything like the Fleet Street strikes when Murdoch decamped and took his operations to Wapping.

[98elise]

martin84 said:

In general though what are they really doing wrong? Their argument is that the transport network will be a lot busier than usual and TfL will make significantly larger amounts of money than usual as a result. The Unions members believe they should get a slice of that extra Olympic pie, it shouldn't all go to TfL. Criticise the threat to strike as much as you like but withdrawl of their labour is their biggest bargaining tool and always has been.

TfL have already signed off on deals giving transport workers extra pay for the same work over the Olympics, totalling £27million. These bus drivers think they should get some extra as well, if everybody else is going to get it. Fair point. You can say 'two wrongs dont make a right' but what do you expect the bus drivers to do? If they don't demand more and that £27million goes to all the other workers then the upshot is the bus drivers may end up with a word of praise from Boris Johnson but they wont get any money. The rail/tube etc staff will share £27million and be quite happy though.

You do realise that public transport in london needs a multi billion subsidy each and every year just to operate don't you.

Its puts the drivers pay into some perspective when you realise that taxpayers are funding them.

The subsidy should be scrapped, and drivers should be paid what the market will stand, not what they can extort out of the taxpayer.

[heebeegeetee]

98elise said:

You do realise that public transport in london needs a multi billion subsidy each and every year just to operate don't you.

Its puts the drivers pay into some perspective when you realise that taxpayers are funding them.

The subsidy should be scrapped, and drivers should be paid what the market will stand, not what they can extort out of the taxpayer.

The customer should be charged what the market will pay. That is who the service is for. Let's see how London gets about without it's subsidies.

[turbobloke]

heebeegeetee said:

98elise said:

You do realise that public transport in london needs a multi billion subsidy each and every year just to operate don't you.

Its puts the drivers pay into some perspective when you realise that taxpayers are funding them.

The subsidy should be scrapped, and drivers should be paid what the market will stand, not what they can extort out of the taxpayer.

The customer should be charged what the market will pay. That is who the service is for. Let's see how London gets about without it's subsidies.

Interesting questions. The last time I looked, probably the last time there was something on this running on PH ca 2010, the position was:

London buses
Revenue £1.10bn Expenditure £1.82bn Subsidy £0.72bn
London tube
Revenue £1.77bn Expenditure £2.36bn Subsidy £0.59bn

Looking at pay levels now
Experienced London bus driver hourly rate £18.43 / hour
National minimum wage for persons over 21 £6.08 / hour

Driving a bus or a tube is a responsible job but it's not rocket science - clearly tube and bus drivers, like public transport passengers, do very well out of car drivers.

[Jasandjules]

heebeegeetee said:

The customer should be charged what the market will pay. That is who the service is for. Let's see how London gets about without it's subsidies.

Sadly the "customer" has little choice but to pay, the same as train fares into London which are extortionate. But we have to be able to get to work?!!?

[turbobloke]

Jasandjules said:

heebeegeetee said:

The customer should be charged what the market will pay. That is who the service is for. Let's see how London gets about without it's subsidies.

Sadly the "customer" has little choice but to pay, the same as train fares into London which are extortionate. But we have to be able to get to work?!!?

In spite of all the subsidies the cost to workers isn't trivial - who gets free or reduced bus fares in London these days? Where bus fares are not regulated, prices have been rising fast, ca 20%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jan/03/bus-fa...

[Mario149]

I have less of a problem with bus drivers getting a bit extra as they are lower paid than tube driver to start with and actually have to interact with the public face to face in their job. The tube driver just sits in his drivers bit and make announcements while the staff on the platform sort people out

[Murph7355]

swerni said:

The sooner the whole network goes driverless the better.

And what dinosaurs like Bob Crow (and people like Scargill before him) cannot fathom is the more they act like obnoxious, spoilt brats not in touch with the real world, the faster people will find ways around them like this. And then their members will be left with nothing.

Still, Bob will be left sat on a pretty penny in his council house.

tt. Entitlement idiots like Crow are everything that's bad about this country and have been strangling it for 4 decades.